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Offline Tie  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2021 14:39:47(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Hi All

I have purchased some secondhand M83 Decoders and intend to use them for signal lights on my layout. Signals are for show only (trains are run by events in CS3, and I hope to insert in same events the commands to turn on/off lights)

Then:
Anybody know what colors is used in Era 3 Germany? (My signal light masts have Red, Orange and green LEDs)
Do the lights blink or always on?
What color if block train is to enter is Occupied? (assume red of course)
What color if block after the one(Block) the train is entering might be occupied? (Orange?)
And if block after the one(Block) the train is entering free? (Green?)

I will use only lights (no day signals with raised and lowered arms... for now)

Are Signal masts to be located at both ends of all blocks?.. Pointing "into" the block to signal if next block is occupied or not?

Are same signals used in station areas (to let trains out of station and into first block of travel?)

Tried to attach a plot of my layout to show my intended placements, without luck. However I uploaded a plot to my Album on this site(I hope)

In Plot:
Masts (yellow V with red dot Lok driver is looking into the open V when approaching lights).
Yellow numbers are length of Blocks in millimeters,
Letters in Circles are Blocks codes(some blocks are only clusters of Turnouts, cannot hold a train and only used to program events) No need for signal masts "inside" those)
Dotted lines are hidden areas (No need for signal masts "inside" those either)
Hope somebody can help?

Regards
Thor
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2021 14:46:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,343
Location: DE-NW
What type of signals do you have?

Standard for era III light signals would be "green = Go", "green+orange = Go slow", and "red = Stop".
Home signals have single green and single orange and two red lights. Distant signals have two green and two orange and show either "green/green", "orange/orange" or "green/orange".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2021 15:18:12(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
here is my go to web site for German signals: https://sh1.org/eisenbahn/index.htm
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Tie  
#4 Posted : 22 October 2021 17:13:23(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Thanks to both of You. I have some cheap Chinese made signals from Ebay. Lattice mast with a ladder attached. Three lights above each orher. Like traffic lights. Need to rethink this. Maybe 3d print something similar to what is shown in Dales Website. Very informative. But not something to absorb and understand in a minute. Will need to spend some evenings in Dales website. Again Thanks.
Thor
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 22 October 2021 19:25:35(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
just to be clear it is not my web site, its my go to site for signals!

Yes, your traffic light signals are not correct for German trains, but the signaling journey is a very interesting to go down....


Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Tie  
#6 Posted : 22 October 2021 23:05:37(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Hi Dale
I saw it was not your site/page later. However: Heavy material to me. I now cars and boats. Train signals differs a lot both principles and physics. Still, I wiill spend some time and try to learn. Ref to this site still more than good.
Thanks.
Regards
Thor
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tie
Offline Tie  
#7 Posted : 15 November 2021 19:16:23(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
IMG_4307.JPG

Well... This is the prototype for my German signals. this one Intended to be both main signal and "upfront" signal. However I do not have more space in the pole for more cables so I will 3D print the main signals and upfront signals on its own poles. This one should combine both..
Had some trouble gluing in the leds on the back side. Everything a little too tiny, but it helped when I found out that a drop of super-glue could be fast-cured(instantly/within two or three seconds) by adding a dash of baking Soda on top of the glue.

I have chosen the following defintions of the colors of main signal:
Red: Stop
Red + The two White ones: Stop, Switching is permitted
Green + Orange: Proceed with reduced speed
Green: Proceed
Orange: Signal is in working order but switced off.

The upfront signal Should have two green and two Orange light plus a small white one.
Two green lights: Expect Proceed at next main signal
One Green and one Yellow light: Eexpect proceed at reduced speed at next main signal
Two orange lights: Expect stop at next main signal.
The small white if lit: Either that the signal is a repeater of a previous signal or that distance to next main signal when becoming visible from the locomotive is shorter than Standard.
Anybody see any big errors? Intended to be approx as in 1960 Germany...


TIE




Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 15 November 2021 19:23:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,343
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
Orange: Signal is in working order but switced off.
A single white light indicates that a signal has nothing to say.
I think in the '60s you need two red for stop.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline torhb  
#9 Posted : 16 November 2021 13:07:34(UTC)
torhb


Joined: 08/11/2001(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Oppegård,
Hi,

A main signal with two white lamps will have two red lights for stop (Hp0/Sh0), and one red + two white lights for shunting allowed (Hp0/Sh1). These are mainly used as exit signals in stations.

Main signals without white lamps (entry signals to stations and block signals on open line) usually have only one red lamp.

Regards
Tor
Tor Harald Bøhler
Oppegård, Norway
Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 16 November 2021 13:18:58(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,170
Location: Michigan, Troy
A white light with a red light also means stop with switching allowed.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 16 November 2021 13:40:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,343
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
A white light with a red light also means stop with switching allowed.
Since 1995 a single red light means stop for everything, earlier two red lights were used.
I think I never heard of or saw signals showing a single red and a single white. Where and when does it stand for "switching allowed"?

https://de.wikipedia.org...ignalsystem#Lichtsignale
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 16 November 2021 13:41:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,343
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: torhb Go to Quoted Post
A main signal with two white lamps will have two red lights for stop (Hp0/Sh0)
Two red lights are Hp 00, one red light is Hp 0.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline DaleSchultz  
#13 Posted : 16 November 2021 13:55:29(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
great progress!
I am planning on designing and printing some signals soon too.
I bought LEDs on Litz wires and it looks like you have the same.
The holes in the signals look a bit big and the 'cut-off' corners of the signal boards look a bit small.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Tie  
#14 Posted : 19 November 2021 11:55:31(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Hi All who commented this Thread...
As Dale pointed out Early the Signals is indeed a long and winding road.................
What I posted earlier and started out with was found on the net and I think I interpreted correctly... Do not remember where I found it and it does not matter really.
Further research shows that both signals changes with time and are(were) different for various regions of Germany.

I will try and look further into this before deciding for my era III layout...

at least the prototype shows it is possible to make Yourself....

Probably I should buy a new printer (the ones who print in Liquid) to get more details/better result. The extruding melted plastic printer I use cannot print the small detail I want....
But then I got another sidekick from my wife for spending too much money for this Hobby....
Maybe I should do as last time and tell the kids I want money for Christmas present... to invest in a printer... and add the rest of the money from my own wallet.

I will revert with more some time...

Thor Inge
Offline DaleSchultz  
#15 Posted : 19 November 2021 14:02:02(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
Yes, an SLA 3D printer will give you much better detail for lots of things on the layout....

I also had a thought about the wires. If you look at pictures of real train signals, many have the cables to the signal head running up behind the main support pole in a big bundle. i.e. they do not have to go inside the pole. So, we can (and should) do the same. This lets us get more wires in. We do need to paint them black though.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Tie  
#16 Posted : 19 November 2021 16:46:08(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Agree on that Dale. The white led i bought have thin laquer insulated single copper wires. Good for my purpose. The colored ones had stranded wires with «thick» plastic wowen insulation. Not so good for my purpose. Will try to get new with thin wires. Did not but enough anyway. Should be visible in the picture of the mast.
Thor Inge
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tie
Offline Toosmall  
#17 Posted : 25 November 2021 09:54:15(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 79
Location: Sydney
A bit of trivia.

In 1988 one of my customers in a previous life showed me a plastic translucent part and asked how it was made. I had a pretty good feel for various ways things are manufactured, but I couldn't work this one out. It was a rounded hollow shape and could not be cast. It had a pretty low number of polygons inside and out.

It was 3D printed. The company made their own printer for making prototypes.
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