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Offline Mr. Ron  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2021 03:48:21(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
I am starting a grade and ending that grade at 4" high using M track. How do I prevent the abrupt change in grade where the track ends meet; M track being pretty rigid? do I just shim the track at the track joint to eliminate any "hump"? I'm working on a 4% grade.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2021 04:42:18(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
if you got from 0° to 4% you will have a hump/dip. You have to transition so you dont go from 0% to 4% rapidy.

Cant cheat math.

Shim away.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline PJMärklin  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2021 05:14:12(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,009
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
I am starting a grade and ending that grade at 4" high using M track. How do I transition from level to grade smoothly without an abrupt change in grade at the beginning and end of the grade? M track being pretty rigid: do I just shim the track at the track joint to eliminate any "hump"? I'm working on a 4% grade.


Hello Ronald,BigGrin

Whilst my main grade experience has been with K track laid in Merkur "roadbed", I found gradual change in the grade during the transition interval using 1/1 track lengths produced a good result. This is shown in one of my grades on my layout below (pardon the current downramp works next to line 4Blushing where the same principles apply) -

(The grade for lines 1 &2 on the right):
UserPostedImage
; there remains the option to smooth this further using half or even quarter track sections.

(The transition grade starts at the camera site):
UserPostedImage

(The transition grade starts at the left of image)
UserPostedImage
I know, naughty having a point (#14) near a grade changeOhMyGod but it works wellSneaky .


When using Noch foam ramps (which I use in single-line concealed areas) they recommend you achieve the smooth transition change by using quarter tracks for the transition periods - the transition period obviously being in much less incline than the subsequent grade.
This might work better for M trackWink.
see diagram below -

UserPostedImage



Have fun with your Märklin ThumpUp

Regards,

PJSmile
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2021 14:57:35(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,170
Location: Michigan, Troy
Shim the track gradually from the beginning of the grade. Use wood or plastic shims. I used wood mostly, and the Woodland scenics grade kit, but it's only styro, so screws don't hold strong in it after you plaster over the foam bases. So screw down the tracks before and after the grade if possible into your wood substrate. You can also hot glue the edges of the tracks. Just a dab in a few spots, and your ballasting or foilage scatter will hide the glue.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2021 18:39:01(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,920
Remember its not the visual aspect of the 'bump' in the track that one needs to hide.

1. You have to ensure that wheels and sliders do not have a problem transitioning.
2. In terms of visuals, a moving train will amplify the smallest 'bump' in the track as the coaches move across it. (This applies to lateral kinks too.)

So if you don't want to see the trains changing angle when they run, and want reliable running, pay a lot of attention to the shimming and transitions.

Next time you see a great looking layout, look at how a moving train rolls along it, it will show you all the bumps and kinks. Going across bridges can also be very hard to get right.

Edited by user 20 November 2021 22:48:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline jcrtrains  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2021 21:30:09(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 552
Location: Toronto, Ontario
A key element is to not have the transition on a curve. The curve may cause engines with longer fixed wheelbases to derail.
Offline marklinist5999  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2021 10:46:04(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,170
Location: Michigan, Troy
More often than not, space constraints require a curving ramp. Not many long locomotives have fixed wheel bases.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2021 11:51:32(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,218
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post

UserPostedImage
I know, naughty having a point (#14) near a grade changeOhMyGod but it works wellSneaky .
I concur. The dogma of having no point on a grade is in my view and experience pointless when the point is at the bottom of the grade in case locomotive-hauled trains are employed: While the locomotive is already on the ramp, the train it pulls is still on the horizontal stretch, meaning the "ramp stress" at that moment is only building up (However, the situation is different at the to of the ramp, when the stress is increased with the full train lenght on incline).
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2021 13:43:47(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,170
Location: Michigan, Troy
I have a couple points shimmed up a bit because of bridge approaches being close to them. C track has the profile it has, thus limitied R1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 radii. A short or a wide
turnout. It's not a problem. It just creates a slight grade on the parade runs. The trains mostly transition smoothly onto the bridges and the station through track. I didn't screw the turnouts down. The tracks adjacent to them are screwed to the wooden shims. Those are either screwed by the same track screws or hot glued down. I hid the shims of the curves with flexible rubber stone retaining wall by Chooch enterprises. They make a few styles and sizes. K tack, etc. is a different story though I can see.
Offline Mr. Ron  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2021 22:10:32(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
Thank you all for your input. Shimming is the way to go and I now understand how to accomplish it.
Offline Timnomads  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2021 11:02:45(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 239
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Hi
I have found that you can bend a longer straight piece of track 188 or 173 to cater for the change in grade, works for my layout with a hump yard
Tim
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Offline Mr. Ron  
#12 Posted : 22 November 2021 19:22:14(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
Originally Posted by: Timnomads Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I have found that you can bend a longer straight piece of track 188 or 173 to cater for the change in grade, works for my layout with a hump yard
Tim


I am using M track which is not very flexible. Are you saying it can be bent?

Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 23 November 2021 00:33:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,436
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Timnomads Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I have found that you can bend a longer straight piece of track 188 or 173 to cater for the change in grade, works for my layout with a hump yard
Tim


I am using M track which is not very flexible. Are you saying it can be bent?



Try standing on it, it will certainly bend, just not in the way you want BigGrin BigGrin

But with a bit of care by squeezing in the sides of the road bed and rolling the track side across a suitable round object (a can or drinks bottle filled with water maybe) it should gently bend to a suitable concave radius. Alternatively spreading the sides of the track bed should allow it to bend the other way.

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