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Engine Diagnostics for Marklin Engine 3085
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Offline Thomas Knight  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2021 23:52:46(UTC)
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Thomas Knight

Canada   
Joined: 19/06/2018(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: British Columbia
Hello everyone! First time posting. My grandson and I are new to Marklin having inherited a couple of bins full of M track and equipment that for the most part is from the sixties. To add to this collection, I recently purchased a Marklin engine 3085 from someone who had purchased the engine in Germany and only used it for a static display. Upon testing the unit at home on a length of M-track attached to an old blue transformer (6450?), only the lights and the forward/reverse sound would go on. I guess my (very naive) question would be do we need to purchase a digital transformer? If these newer engines don’t need a digital transformer, could it be that the small transformer used to test the new engine did not have enough power? Thanks in advance. Tom & Archer.





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Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 09 November 2021 00:31:37(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Hi welcome to the hobby and the forum.

Mist likely that loco's motor has gummed up with hardened oil. You need to take the shell off, remove the brushes, unscrew the cover plate and take the armature out and then clean all the gears. Once all back together it will most likely work!
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#3 Posted : 09 November 2021 00:37:10(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 432
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Like Dale said, the gears of the engine may be jammed due to long inactivity on the static display. It needs to be cleaned with isopropanol or other similar fluid. This page may be of some help.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2021 03:12:33(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,771
Location: New Zealand
Aside from the oil cleaning suggestions, you are correct in supposing that a larger transformer may be needed. Most of the larger analog engines need something larger than the basic 10va transformer - 30va or larger.
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Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2021 03:02:14(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Location: Montreal, QC
IMPORTANT

If your locomotive is gummed up (hardened oil or other), DO NOT attempt to push or hand start movement, as you could end up damaging the fragile parts of the drive.

Where are you located in BC? I frequently deal with Mr Menzel at Eurorailhobbies, who recently moved from Delta to Summerland. I don't know how far that would be for you, but you could get in touch with him.

If your trains came with an older blue transformer with a metal casing, it is important that you check it to make sure there is no deterioration of the wiring.
I would go as far as to recommend that you replace an older metal one with a more recent plastic one or preferably one of the new white plastic housing ones.
The risk with the older metal ones is that if the wires are deteriorated, the live can come in contact with the housing and electrocute the user.

There are a number of dealers who offer the 6646 120VAC 32VA ones from Start sets at discount prices.

Take a look at this video:


Regards

Mike C
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2021 13:12:37(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,559
Location: Paris, France
Hi Thomas
Welcome to the forum
Here a retired Märklinist based in Paris with a digital HO layout with PC control. I have worked in some countries including Canada (Toronto) but also worked in Atlanta, Los Angeles, Nanjing, Taipeh, Beijing, Utrecht, Naples and more as a program director for computerized ticketing systems for transit system.

If you don't have the exploded view of the 3085, here it is
Sans titre.png
Do not try to rotate the motor using the wheel as you may alter the wheel position (alter the wheel quartering) and create damage bending the coupling rods).
Rather, open the loco's body
Remove the brushes
Try to rotate the motor gently using the nearest gear. Clean the gears using lighter fluid, clean, dry, lubricate a little, put back the brushes, test.
There are no digital transformers, the key difference is the grey housing ones have an over-voltage limited to 24 VAC (OK to use on digital locos) whereby the older, blue transformers generate much higher inversion voltages which may destroy digital locos. Electro-mechanical locos are perfectly safe with those.

In case you are interested here is my layout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6WnhXPcRqI

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline Thomas Knight  
#7 Posted : 12 November 2021 07:15:53(UTC)
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Thomas Knight

Canada   
Joined: 19/06/2018(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: British Columbia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
IMPORTANT

If your locomotive is gummed up (hardened oil or other), DO NOT attempt to push or hand start movement, as you could end up damaging the fragile parts of the drive.

Where are you located in BC? I frequently deal with Mr Menzel at Eurorailhobbies, who recently moved from Delta to Summerland. I don't know how far that would be for you, but you could get in touch with him.

If your trains came with an older blue transformer with a metal casing, it is important that you check it to make sure there is no deterioration of the wiring.
I would go as far as to recommend that you replace an older metal one with a more recent plastic one or preferably one of the new white plastic housing ones.
The risk with the older metal ones is that if the wires are deteriorated, the live can come in contact with the housing and electrocute the user.

There are a number of dealers who offer the 6646 120VAC 32VA ones from Start sets at discount prices.

Take a look at this video:


Regards

Mike C



Thanks Mike, the attached tutorial is excellent! I'll just need to buy a few small tools and some rubbing alcohol to tackle this. I think I'll start on some of the simpler locos in the bin like a 3000. I'll probably need to by some brushings and wheel rubbers as some of the locos have probably put in a lot of service! And I'll start to keep my eye out for the transformers you are recommending. I'll start with eBay.ca to keep shipping costs down. I am located in Powell River on the Sunshine Coast.
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Offline Thomas Knight  
#8 Posted : 12 November 2021 07:22:13(UTC)
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Thomas Knight

Canada   
Joined: 19/06/2018(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: British Columbia
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Thomas
Welcome to the forum
Here a retired Märklinist based in Paris with a digital HO layout with PC control. I have worked in some countries including Canada (Toronto) but also worked in Atlanta, Los Angeles, Nanjing, Taipeh, Beijing, Utrecht, Naples and more as a program director for computerized ticketing systems for transit system.

If you don't have the exploded view of the 3085, here it is
Sans titre.png
Do not try to rotate the motor using the wheel as you may alter the wheel position (alter the wheel quartering) and create damage bending the coupling rods).
Rather, open the loco's body
Remove the brushes
Try to rotate the motor gently using the nearest gear. Clean the gears using lighter fluid, clean, dry, lubricate a little, put back the brushes, test.
There are no digital transformers, the key difference is the grey housing ones have an over-voltage limited to 24 VAC (OK to use on digital locos) whereby the older, blue transformers generate much higher inversion voltages which may destroy digital locos. Electro-mechanical locos are perfectly safe with those.

In case you are interested here is my layout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6WnhXPcRqI

Cheers
Jean

Merci John. This exploded view will definitely be useful. And I did take the opportunity to have a look at your layout. Very nice and my grandson will really like all the sounds coming from your train operation. And when he sees that crane, I know I'll be having to hunt for one of those!
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