How to read a german "Zugbildung"

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How to read a german "Zugbildung" - How to read a german "Zugbildung"

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fosuna		#1 Posted : 29 October 2021 10:36:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC) Posts: 58		Hi everybody! Please, anybody knows how to read and understand a german "Zugbildung"? For example, following there are two images from the web site "Das 1958-Projekt". What does it mean the data surrounded in red squares? The other fields I think I can guess them. If someone knows where I can find information about (or he or she knows) how to read and interpret these german "Zugbildungs" (it does not mind if they are in German), I would appreciate the help. Thanks in advance! Francisco
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H0		#2 Posted : 29 October 2021 12:41:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Hi! I cannot explain everything you ask for. I got my information from German MIBA books, so cannot provide links. "Kb": Compartment for handicapped people "4, 3, 2*": The numbers of the coaches (sometimes shown on square signs on the coaches - required for reserved seats) "1. 2.": Train has first and second class "West": Speculation: Train is West/East, not North/South "Nr 2, 3, 4": The numbers of the coaches again. "-52-": The type of the coaches (group 52) "(616)": Kilometres on DB tracks for a roundtrip (Köln-Kassel-Köln)
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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fosuna		#3 Posted : 29 October 2021 13:17:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC) Posts: 58		Originally Posted by: H0 Hi! I cannot explain everything you ask for. I got my information from German MIBA books, so cannot provide links. "Kb": Compartment for handicapped people "4, 3, 2*": The numbers of the coaches (sometimes shown on square signs on the coaches - required for reserved seats) "1. 2.": Train has first and second class "West": Speculation: Train is West/East, not North/South "Nr 2, 3, 4": The numbers of the coaches again. "-52-": The type of the coaches (group 52) "(616)": Kilometres on DB tracks for a roundtrip (Köln-Kassel-Köln) Hi Tom! Thank you very much for your answer. It helped me. It would be great to know to meaning of each field, and then the values for a given field. Thanks to you, I can guess the meaning of some fields. By the way, in these "Zugbildungs" there is no information about the locomotive type, isn't it? Greetings! Francisco
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mike c		#4 Posted : 29 October 2021 14:41:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,890 Location: Montreal, QC		The first listing, Cologne to Kassel is eastbound. Would it still be notated as West? You can still find copies of the Meinhold book Zugbildung Epoch III both printed and online Regards Mike C

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fosuna		#5 Posted : 29 October 2021 14:51:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/04/2015(UTC) Posts: 58		Originally Posted by: mike c The first listing, Cologne to Kassel is eastbound. Would it still be notated as West? You can still find copies of the Meinhold book Zugbildung Epoch III both printed and online Regards Mike C Hi Mike, Do you mean the "66 Reisezüge für Modellbahner" magazine? I have just get this MIBA magazine, and inside there is a lot of "Zugbildungen". But I do not know the meaning of many fields. For example, a "W" before the type of carriage. That is why I would like to understand these "Zugbildungen". Thanks for your post! Francisco
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H0		#6 Posted : 29 October 2021 16:59:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: mike c The first listing, Cologne to Kassel is eastbound. Would it still be notated as West? Yep. AFAIK the last digit (even or odd) gives away whether the train is eastbound or westbound.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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mike c		#7 Posted : 29 October 2021 18:36:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,890 Location: Montreal, QC		https://www.vgbahn.shop/zugbildung-band-1 For Era III Not all sites allow downloading from outside Germany/EU Regards Mike C

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hxmiesa		#8 Posted : 31 October 2021 10:27:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		Interessting info. Thanks! Originally Posted by: H0 "Kb": Compartment for handicapped people I am surprised to hear that for a 1958 train. Impressive! ;-) Maybe the germans had to start early because of the war, but handicap-friendly compartments are really something quite new in the rest of europe, I think... (I thought it mean a baggage compartment. lol) Quote: "4, 3, 2": The numbers of the coaches (sometimes shown on square signs on the coaches - required for reserved seats) So the train only has 3 waggons? What would be the explanation for the missing "Number 1" coach? Quote: "Nr 2, 3, 4": The numbers of the coaches again. "-52-": The type of the coaches (group 52) Can somebody share a link to a practical list of the type-specifications?* Like what does "group 52" mean, and what does "AB4ymg" etc. mean? (I mean, I know about the A and B for 1st and 2nd class. -And a reastaurant car is also usually easy to identify, but there are so much other information I would like to be able to decipher correctly and quickly.
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Alsterstreek		#9 Posted : 31 October 2021 13:43:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,669 Location: Hybrid Home		Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Like what does "group 52" mean, and what does "AB4ymg" etc. mean? (I mean, I know about the A and B for 1st and 2nd class. -And a reastaurant car is also usually easy to identify, but there are so much other information I would like to be able to decipher correctly and quickly. German website: http://www.modellbau-wik...ilzugwagen_(Deutschland) Scroll down to "Eilzugwagen (1. Serie)": "Noch vor Schnellzugwagen beschaffte die Deutsche Bundesbahn ab 1951 die „m-Wagen“ als Eilzugwagen und ordnete sie in die „Verwendungsgruppe 52“ ein." Own translation: "Even before express train cars, the German Federal Railroad procured the "m cars" as semi-fast train cars starting in 1951 and classified them in "Assignment Group 52"." The table below the caption lists "AB4ymg" cars: Year of manufacture 1951/1952-1954 as type: BC4ymg(b)-51, later re-classified as: AB4ymg(b)-51 → ABym(b)411 → AByl(b)411
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Martti Mäntylä		#10 Posted : 31 October 2021 22:05:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 398 Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki		For the meaning of expressions such as "AB4ymg", see Wikipedia.
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hxmiesa		#11 Posted : 01 November 2021 08:21:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä For the meaning of expressions such as "AB4ymg", see Wikipedia. I know about the wiki-pages, of course. -but they seem incomplete and cluttered (at least on this subject). Changing the linked page to German language does not resolve the "Kb B", as the K would indicate a narrow-gage reisrzugwagen (which I think is not the case here.)
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DaleSchultz		#12 Posted : 01 November 2021 13:43:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		I dont think the Kb designation of a compartment is a wagon class code.
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Unholz		#13 Posted : 01 November 2021 16:04:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,392 Location: Switzerland		May I give it a try? Here https://db58.de/2017/05/28/d-803-d-804-lindau-ulm/ the question "What is the meaning of the abbreviation Kb" is explained with "Abteil für Körperbehinderte" or translated as "compartment for disabled persons" (as already correctly identified by Tom far above).
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H0		#14 Posted : 01 November 2021 16:57:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,262 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Interessting info. Thanks! Originally Posted by: H0 "Kb": Compartment for handicapped people I am surprised to hear that for a 1958 train. Impressive! ;-) Don't expect anything fancy: Most likely it is just an ordinary compartment with a sheet of paper saying "Reserved for handicapped people". We still have this pattern for "women's compartments" or "family compartments": Just a sheet of paper. Sometimes these sheets are added in the middle of the journey - we, a couple without children, entered an empty compartment at the start of the journey and after crossing the border it suddenly was marked "parent and child compartment". Very funny. Many modern trains have ramps for wheel-chairs. Some Silberling coaches had modified doors where the bar in the middle could be tilted to make room for wheelchairs. But I think in 1958 these fancy features were not yet around.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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