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Offline Zme  
#1 Posted : 20 September 2021 04:38:07(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hello. You likely already know this . . .

Just wanted to share:

If you need a great puller I recommend the Marklin 8822 (BR 194)or equal.

I just finished cleaning one and tried it out. On my layout it will easily pull 11 or 12 mixed 4 and 2 wheel wagons or 10 ore wagons (4 wheel).

It has a three pole motor but the real difference in this one as compared to the 8856 (SBB 6/8) I believe is the heavy metal front shells and the genuine 6 drive wheels in each truck.

Wow it is a good one. I haven’t looked it up so I am not certain which era it is, but if you can fit it into your collection I would recommend it.

Best wishes, take good care.

Dwight
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Offline Mman  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2021 11:34:17(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
1644F91D-EB20-42A3-8B29-1653815E7254.jpegJust compared an 88222 with my 8849 Ae 6/6 which is also 6 axle with a different pulling test, again on my Noch Tessin, this time dragging the track cleaning gondola 86501 around.
This test defeats most locos including the Ae 6/6 when used singly, double heading is usually necessary. The Tessin includes gradients up to 6% and the occasional 145mm radius curve so is quite demanding but the E94 can manage both circuits on its own.
I’ve been re-discovering a lot of my mini-club and came across the track cleaner and gradient measurement car 86191 at the weekend so put them to good use.
I have about 4 versions of this loco and the different eras and owners (1 is ÖBB) don’t worry me, the only stock I have none of is the North American outline.
ChrisG
C8081079-615A-47F9-9756-7F4A2B07C206.jpeg
Just tried using the motorized track cleaner car 8802 to do the hauling and it walks it!205474F6-2F43-4364-8096-8125427666BF.jpeg
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Zme
Offline Toosmall  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2021 14:25:33(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: New South Wales, Newcastle
Agree, it's a great loco, so I got a few spares.

Add a bit of lead (11.34) to the roof or better still some tungsten (19.25) or platinum (21.4) if the budget stretches that far. There are a couple more spots to add lead and add some lead shims on the sides of the motor for that last nth of a gram.

IMG_0674.jpg

_MG_73640800.jpg

_MG_7364crop.jpg

Add some tyres.
63051.jpg
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Offline Zme  
#4 Posted : 21 September 2021 03:26:53(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hello. Thanks for your input. You definitely know the strength of the 8822 and related types.

I have not added weight or traction wheels. I don’t have the gradient gauge like pictured so I don’t know how steep my hill might be. I know with a loco like a BR 110, 3 or 4 two axle wagons are possible. Today I attached 8 four axle wagons with a load on each (tractor trailer) and it was pulled, no problem. Adding one more did not work.

I forgot to mention the other day, that each truck on the loco in addition to the three drive axles, has three intermediate drive gears. This adds weight right where it is needed.

I firmly believe all these factors result in an outstanding locomotive, possibly one of the best.

Take good care.

Dwight
Offline Toosmall  
#5 Posted : 21 September 2021 09:43:51(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: New South Wales, Newcastle
To get gradient put some blocks of wood or a book or two under one end of the layout. First benchmark that section of track to horizontal.

IMG_2616.jpg
Offline Zme  
#6 Posted : 24 September 2021 05:00:36(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hi.

My layout platform is level, how is grade determined after this?

This is my first layout, likely did not get thing correct.

Still amazed about this locomotive.

Thanks, take good care.


Dwight
Offline Toosmall  
#7 Posted : 24 September 2021 09:19:02(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: New South Wales, Newcastle
If you have a level layout, great, that is what I was trying to achieve but failed dismally. I didn't really want gradients but it was the only way I could stuff in as much track as I could with the scenery I was after.

The best option is to have all the track at an RL (relative level) of say about 10 metres (Z: 45mm) minimum above the base so one can have scenery below track level to help with the illusion of gradients.

The 8822 does look the part going around mountains.

_MG_7387.jpg
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MmanZme
Offline Mman  
#8 Posted : 24 September 2021 11:04:37(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
And the pulling power is increased by having the pantographs raised and touching the catenary wire giving a downwards push onto the loco. Of course it will add a bit of friction also, but would think that would be outweighed by the extra traction gained since, adhesion to the track aside, the Z locos are powerful - just a case of harnessing that power.
Curves give drag, the sharper the more drag so I try to avoid the 145mm radius ones.

I spent some time designing a two level layout to fit into my bay window with the ‘fiddle yard’ and reverse loop on the lower level and a 2.5% gradient between. A long way in I realized that I would not be able to see let alone access the yard and to make a suitable difference in height would mean the gradient percentage rising to an impractical figure. Second thing I realized was that you can’t run locos with the pantograph in use (to actually supply the current) around reverse loops and still run diesels and steamers on the rest of the layout. This is where 3 rail triumphs, I wonder if they considered three rail Z when designing mini-club!
ChrisG
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Zme
Offline Mman  
#9 Posted : 24 September 2021 11:19:57(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
I was amazed when I attached a 8802 track cleaning rail car to a hard to pull consist, it punched way above its weight. It has wheels with a very rough tread, the front pair larger than the rear to give a deliberate slip between the two to scrape the rail surface. I will have a go at transplanting the axle with the smaller wheels into a regular loco to see if that improves the pulling power of it. If it does I’ll have a go at knurling a larger wheel on a steamer.
ChrisG
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Zme
Offline Mman  
#10 Posted : 15 October 2021 12:00:58(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
30BFB0F1-153D-4B34-A663-DA955768035E.jpegTook the anti-clockwise tour to include Gaugemaster at Ford near Arundel yesterday who had been listing E94 88227 at a reduced price. This has a new type motor which may be suitable for continuous operation. All my electric and diesel outline locos get hot after several minutes, the 3 poles especially -no wonder there are so many burnt out examples- only the steamers with open motors sticking out of the cab stay coolish. The worst are the completely enclosed 0-6-0 locos, no ventilation!
After my last experience with new Z purchases I was wary but undaunted and went ahead and bought it. This morning it is running in on my Tessin layout where it negotiates both inner and outer circuits with no bother. It didn’t want to know my smaller briefcase layout continually derailing on the sharp curves and uneven track but that one is really only suitable for 0-6-0s and railbuses.
Another challenge which I think I have read about is keeping the pantographs down. There is no hook to latch as with the modern ones but relies on an ‘over centre’ position, one of the pantos refused to stay down (on the Tessin inner circuit there is bridge over the track that would be hit by a raised one) so I had to do a bit of tweaking to improve matters. Haven’t tried a maximum load test yet but with the track cleaner only it looks promising.
One of the photos is shewing the derailed front axle on the smaller layout, I didn’t notice at the time.
ChrisG
43780F13-B992-4D82-BEB8-0E262DC563B5.jpeg
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Zme
Offline Zme  
#11 Posted : 15 October 2021 15:52:35(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hello, hope all is well.

Beautiful locomotive. The lower truck frames look huge. Maybe it is the deep red color which accentuates them. I like it. It will be interesting to see how the new motor does with the pull test. I know this is defective logic but, I always assume the quiet motor is a weakling. Prove me wrong, please.

Hot running can be caused by a number of things. I have been working on a number of mine and can share a few thoughts, you likely could add a few more.

Yes the tight brushes can cause excessive heating but to me are difficult to adjust. Look up doing this on YouTube. I think ZHobo had something posted. I haven’t given up on performing this solution.

The lite oils don’t cake and harden,but they tend to sling off and this gets oil where you may not want it. Cleanings need to be more frequent.

The Marklin oils do harden and this could cause heating.

Although I clean my track rather consistently, small pieces of “vegetation” material got caught up into a truck and caused it to interfere with free rolling operation. I sometimes fear breaking down a “Bo Bo” type assembly, but found it beneficial to do so. It does give you a chance to see if something is broken or if the wheel contacts are not located behind the wheel, causing binding.

It is best to work on a hot engine because what I discovered years ago, is this. Yes, it will work, but eventually it won’t. And another concern is that the heat will eventually soften and expand the plastic shell, and it won’t stay on. Shells are costly too.

Just a few thoughts hope it helps.

Let’s us know what you discover with your new loco it should be interesting.

Take good care.

Dwight


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Offline Mman  
#12 Posted : 16 October 2021 11:07:39(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
483BBD9C-CECD-43DC-AB53-F2010F21CF40.jpegAfter testing this morning find that this E94 is my best puller (without traction tires) so far. In my standard test going clockwise around the outer circuit of the Tessin which has a 3.5% gradient (according to the 86191 measurement wagon) it has managed a record breaking 20 x 2 axle wagons! I ran out of readily available tankers and added what may be heavier box cars until it could no longer make it up the bank due to wheelslip.
Some years ago I bought a jar of ‘Bullfrog snot’ from someone in the US and when I find where I have stored it I will apply some to see if 20 can be bettered.
Apart from the pantos keep popping up it is my best loco so far, it has been hauling for an hour now with no signs of heating up. After the disappointment of the V80 with a can motor it is good to see one working so well.
As far as the pantographs are concerned I will have to swap them with those on a defunct Swiss Ae3/6 that I have.
ChrisG
Offline Zme  
#13 Posted : 16 October 2021 16:46:45(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hello.

Wow, amazing photo.

Dwight
Offline Zme  
#14 Posted : 16 October 2021 16:49:18(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 387
Location: West Texas
Hello.

Wow, amazing photo.

I had a problem with Pantos too, but at close inspection, I notice a small tab on it and when I pushed this slightly inward it stopped popping loose. This was one on a restaurant wagon, but the problem with the panto there are many different types. Yours looks larger and might not have this tab.

I wonder if anyone has a Youtube on this or a discussion of a solution. Have to look around, you could start by searching it on this site. There may be a discussion here.

Of course, you could always change this part out. Does it extend kind of lopsided? It could be missing springs or something minor and maybe this is related to it popping up.

Glad you are happy with your purchase. I am as impressed as you are. If many more wagons are added, the loco will be viewing your last car in the circle.

Take good care.

Dwight

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#15 Posted : 16 October 2021 20:21:11(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 379
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
483BBD9C-CECD-43DC-AB53-F2010F21CF40.jpegAfter testing this morning find that this E94 is my best puller (without traction tires) so far. In my standard test going clockwise around the outer circuit of the Tessin which has a 3.5% gradient (according to the 86191 measurement wagon) it has managed a record breaking 20 x 2 axle wagons! I ran out of readily available tankers and added what may be heavier box cars until it could no longer make it up the bank due to wheelslip.
Some years ago I bought a jar of ‘Bullfrog snot’ from someone in the US and when I find where I have stored it I will apply some to see if 20 can be bettered.
Apart from the pantos keep popping up it is my best loco so far, it has been hauling for an hour now with no signs of heating up. After the disappointment of the V80 with a can motor it is good to see one working so well.
As far as the pantographs are concerned I will have to swap them with those on a defunct Swiss Ae3/6 that I have.
ChrisG


Would you mind popping it on your kitchen scales and letting us know what it weighs? I'm keeping a spreadsheet of loco weights (which I'm very happy to share, if anyone is interested) and would like to add this one to my list!

Thanks very much!


Chris

P.S. If you'd do the same with your V80, that would be great, too!
Offline Mman  
#16 Posted : 17 October 2021 10:53:58(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: England, Guildford
The letter scales were a disappointment since they only read in 5 gram increments so dug out small electronic scales which read 37.9 grams for E94, a mere 21.4 grams for the V80 and out of my interest 30.8 grams for a Swiss Ae 6/6.
ChrisG
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#17 Posted : 17 October 2021 15:02:13(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 379
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
The letter scales were a disappointment since they only read in 5 gram increments so dug out small electronic scales which read 37.9 grams for E94, a mere 21.4 grams for the V80 and out of my interest 30.8 grams for a Swiss Ae 6/6.
ChrisG



Thanks very much, Chris, I really appreciate your taking the time to weight these. I realise I have an unnatural obsession with locomotive weights, but for anyone who is interest, here is the data I have accumulated so far :


Part No Description Weight
(g)
8874 BR216 (V160) B-B Diesel Hydraulic 37
81071 BR218 B-B Diesel Hydraulic 24
81176 BR V200 31
81450 BR232 Co-Co Diesel Electric 33
81551 BR111 B-B Electric 23
81870 BR 111 B-B Electric 24
88025 Klv 20 VW "Bully" 8.5
88131 BR234 Co-Co Diesel Electric 36
88132 BR W 232.01 Co-Co Diesel Electric 34
88133 BR232 Co-Co Diesel Electric 34
88167 BR 798 railcar 18
88203 BR220 (V200.0) B-B Diesel Hydraulic 33
88227 BR 194 "Crocodile" 38
88353 BR14 B-B Electric 29
88501 AE 6/6 C-C Electric 30.8
88699 BR212 B-B Diesel Hydraulic 26
88740 BR 64 2-6-2 21
88742 BR 64 2-6-2 21
88780 BR218 (V164) B-B Diesel Hydraulic 26
88783 BR216 B-B Diesel Hydraulic 23
88784 BR216 B-B Diesel Hydraulic 24
88786 BR218 (V164) B-B Diesel Hydraulic 24
88803 V80 B-B Diesel Hydraulic 21.4
88889 BR85 2-10-2 33
88931 BR85 2-10-2 33
88942 BR 94 0-10-0 31
88943 BR 94.5 0-10-0 31
88956 BR 130 2-6-0 28
88962 BR 86 2-8-2 25

Cheers


Chris
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