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Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 23 August 2021 09:00:30(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
This has been reported elsewhere, but the BR101 (yes the red loco on the red striped grey intercity trains) may soon be a thing of the past.
They have been the 200 km/h-fast standard bearer of Germany’s classic loco-hauled IC network.
(image courtesy of Wikipedia)
BR101 on Intercity train

Märklin produced models of this locomotive within a few years of their introduction on the DBAG network mostly serving as passenger haulers.
(See one of the early models 34374)
101 001-145 were built between 1996 and 1999, so no they are not actually that old yet. But their active live has been intense, these machines have covered millions of kilometres each, and some locos just start to show structural problems.

The following report is courtesy of Alan Clark a member on a German rail forum.

"Since the end of last year, the first locomotives are being sidelined.

On 10.08.2021 locomotive 101 112 and 119 arrived in Opladen, and were pushed through the gates of metal recycling company Bender, the company that scraps most trains of Deutsche Bahn that are being withdrawn. 101 112 still looking quite complete, just its paint was bleak, 101 119 looked still fine, but lost much of its roof equipment.
Curiously, 101 112 had a special design until very recently (May 2020), you may have seen it in blue/ivory and red/ivorywrap promoting the “Wilde 13+” model train shops.
Both machines are almost 23 years old:
Adtranz 33222 = 101 112-1 > entered service on 14.09.1998
Adtranz 33222 = 101 119-6 > entered service on 28.10.1998

Half a dozen other machines are currently also in the process of being withdrawn officially. This is the beginning of a long process during which the 145 machines will go one by one. Some will survive, most will not.
Will the “locomotive” completely disappear from Germany’s IC-network? Not entirely, technically seen, the ICE1/ICE2 power cars are locomotives too, and there are still the 146.5 and 147.5 series electrics that are part of a IC2-double deck train. Also the new Talgo-trains (project ECx) will still have locomotives, but like the 146/147 these will most likely be permanently coupled to the coaches."

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 23 August 2021 09:13:31(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Sad news, but I guess that's just progress.

Carim
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 23 August 2021 10:14:41(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
One of my favourite electric locomotives! I saw quite a few when in Germany in 2019, sad to think both BR120 and BR101 will both be gone. What are they being replaced with?

BR101's at Stuttgart including the Gold BR101.

20190910_011742.jpg

20190910_204012.jpg

20190910_204206.jpg

Of course, the Marklin BR101 was at Göppingen

IMG_3697.JPG

BR101 on the way to Hamburg (we were in an ICE2)

20190916_205638.jpg

BR101 at Hamburg

IMG20190919143304.jpg

BR120 at Stuttgart

20190913_181908.jpg

Edited by user 27 August 2021 13:02:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline PJMärklin  
#4 Posted : 23 August 2021 11:35:48(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
This has been reported elsewhere, but the BR101 (yes the red loco on the red striped grey intercity trains) may soon be a thing of the past. ...


Hi Kimball,

Thanks for your informative post. Interesting but somewhat sad news.
Over the years I came to like this loco with its distinct shape.

I had seen the 101’s for some years in Germany, here in March 2006 between Berlin and Brussels (perhaps at Aachen?) :


UserPostedImage


here in Mannheim in June 2009:


UserPostedImage


here in July 2011 in Cologne:


UserPostedImage


And also 2011 when we were on the Rhine en route from Budapest to Amsterdam :


UserPostedImage


We last travelled with a DB 101 on a train from Koblenz to Frankfurt in June 2014 – a DB 101 pulling the white with red stripe push-pull consist seen here departing Koblenz. :


UserPostedImage


This then inspired me to replicate the train in Märklin on my return home – here are some snaps of the train on my layout:


UserPostedImage


(see at platform # 3):
UserPostedImage



UserPostedImage



UserPostedImage



Regards,

Philip

Edited by user 25 August 2021 02:52:19(UTC)  | Reason: sp.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 23 August 2021 14:29:16(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I've just received 7 of the 8 new Marklin IC cars together with the BR120. I already have several red BR101's, so like PJ I can make up one of these trains.
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Offline jcrtrains  
#6 Posted : 23 August 2021 14:54:38(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
It seems that many of the newer locos have a shorter lifespan. If you think of many of the iconic engines of the past such as the Ae 6/6, they had a lifespan of almost 60 years. The Re 6/6 is pushing 46 now. I find it odd that with newer technology, the lifespans are reducing.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 23 August 2021 16:07:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
I find it odd that with newer technology, the lifespans are reducing.
The BR 120 had problems with cracks in the frame (structural problems), now the BR 101 also has them.
I think this is a consequence of new light-weight designs.
I think there is a limit of 88 tons for a four-axle loco in Germany and a stronger frame reduces the weight available for motors and power electronics.

The city of Bonn has street cars that are about 15 years old. They are FUBAR because of structural problems.
They also have street cars that are almost 50 years old - and those get a complete overhaul so they can be used for another 30 years.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 23 August 2021 16:41:06(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
I have onyl the Digital Starlight Express version. No doubt Marklin will continue producing the br 101. It may be, likely will be updated to a can motor and cradan shaft drive as the rest have by now.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 24 August 2021 08:11:17(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post


Hi Kimball,

Thanks for your informative post. Interesting but somewhat sad news.
Over the years I came to like this loco with its distinct shape.

I had seen the 101’s for some years in Germany,...... here in Manheim in June 2009:


UserPostedImage

.......
Regards,

Philip



This particular locomotive with environmental slogans #101 105-5 was produced by Märklin in 2017 as model #39375.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 24 August 2021 09:22:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
This particular locomotive with environmental slogans #101 105-5 was produced by Märklin in 2017 as model #39375.
I think the picture does not show 101 105, but a different 101 with the same slogan. Several locos had it.

101 002 had the same slogan (here in 2008):
UserPostedImage

And a picture of 101 001 back in 2007:
UserPostedImage

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Online mvd71  
#11 Posted : 24 August 2021 10:14:19(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,710
Location: Auckland,
Bring back the 103!
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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 24 August 2021 12:16:46(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
Are we tired of the squared noses? Long in the tooth! Time for a restyle? They could update the Vectron nose.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#13 Posted : 24 August 2021 13:00:07(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
This particular locomotive with environmental slogans #101 105-5 was produced by Märklin in 2017 as model #39375.
I think the picture does not show 101 105, but a different 101 with the same slogan. Several locos had it.


Tom, you are correct. Smile

Going back to the original image I took of this same loco at the time, I enlarged the side number:


UserPostedImage


This reveals the side number 101 058-6 :


UserPostedImage


But here is an image of the 101 105. This image was taken by Wouter De Haeck near the Rolandseck station
on the left bank of the Rhine on July 16, 2018 . The 101 pulls an IC from Leipzig to Oberstdorf :


UserPostedImage


I note the side number of this loco is down on the grey skirting, not up on the red side, as in the loco I
"photographed" in Mannheim - is that why you suspected it was not the 101 105 ?
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 24 August 2021 15:05:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
I note the side number of this loco is down on the grey skirting, not up on the red side, as in the loco I
"photographed" in Mannheim - is that why you suspected it was not the 101 105 ?
No. I enlarged your photo and saw that it could not be "10x" behind the "101". I was not sure if it was 056 or 058 or 069 or whatever.
But I surely do not know which loco hat the number on red or on grey at any given time.

But I think about a dozen 101 locos, maybe more, hat this advertising slogan at some time. I think some 120 locos also had it.

Details change with locomotives over time, so model companies can produce new varieties. Wink
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 25 August 2021 08:45:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Maybe in future they use carbon frames instead of steel ?
the BR101 I've got is: 39370 Willkommen im Fussball Land = welcome to the soccer land

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 25 August 2021 14:42:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Maybe in future they use carbon frames instead of steel ?
the BR101 I've got is: 39370 Willkommen im Fussball Land = welcome to the soccer land

John


Ah yes, the second loco for Insiders with the C-sine motor. I regard it as the consolation prize for those who missed out on the ICE-S lottery.
Offline marklinist5999  
#17 Posted : 25 August 2021 15:10:47(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
I doubt it! Carbon fibre is too light for tractive effort. The C sine is too costly, and I "read here" in a thread that it can interfere with the MFX signals.
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 25 August 2021 15:35:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I doubt it! Carbon fibre is too light for tractive effort.
That remark was about the prototype IRL and when the loco finally has 88 metric tons, why not make some parts of carbon fibre.

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The C sine is too costly, and I "read here" in a thread that it can interfere with the MFX signals.
The C Sine motor does not interfere with mfx. No need to write it again and again. Off topic in this prototype thread anyway.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline marklinist5999  
#19 Posted : 25 August 2021 15:44:38(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
#39370 is a protoype Tom? That was the previous post! Yes in real lfe Loco's, carbon fibre is Gut! The 101 also has steerable trucks to assist effort.
Offline marklinist5999  
#20 Posted : 25 August 2021 16:01:14(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
Glare The thread was not about IR. It was about the discontinuation of the C sine motor. My memeory is good, and not you, not I nor anyone else here knows it all!
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
#39370 is a protoype Tom? That was the previous post! Yes in real lfe Loco's, carbon fibre is Gut! The 101 also has steerable trucks to assist effort.


Offline kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 25 August 2021 18:55:39(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The C sine is too costly, and I "read here" in a thread that it can interfere with the MFX signals.


Can you point to a thread which says that the C-Sine interferes with mfx? I know there are a number of locos with Sine motos and mfx decoders, and there is no reason for the motor to interfere with mfx, so would be interested to know where you got that information.

Offline marklinist5999  
#22 Posted : 25 August 2021 19:36:08(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
It was back in early spring. One reply stated that the German's don't like the C sine anymore, and it can or can be interupted the MFX. It may have been Goofy. I suspect some of us here are dealers, and tell us what they want us to believe. I don't know why HO Tom is so rude to me. I get it though, I'm also a gumba, and can be hot tempered. My dad was way worse than I. He was first generation. My grandpa was a "B"!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#23 Posted : 26 August 2021 11:10:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Discussion of C-Sine motors and mfx is way off topic, this thread is about discontinuance of the BR101. Tom is not being rude he is just correcting misinformation that you post. If you don't like that then stop posting misinformation.
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Offline mike c  
#24 Posted : 26 August 2021 15:30:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
The original plan for the BR 101 was that after a number of years, the locomotives would be given over to DB Cargo as the plan was for DB Fernverkehr (Reise und Touristik) was to shift all of it's traffic to EMU.

I don't know if this is still in the cards. The SBB decided to retrofit it's Re 460 fleet to extend their lifespan.
If DB FV is going to hand them off to DB Cargo, they might not be as willing to invest millions into upgrades and DB Cargo certainly would not want to spend millions while the locomotives would remain with passenger traffic.

Additionally, DB Shenker (Cargo) has been very pleased with the Vectron series and the focus has shifted to multi-system locomotives since the arrangement was made.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 26 August 2021 16:18:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
#39370 is a protoype Tom?
#39370 is not made of steel, so the first sentence that proposes to use carbon fibre instead of steel is definitely about the prototype.
The second sentence then mentions a model of BR 101. And #39370 is the only model of BR 101 with C Sine motor. The C Sine motor had not been mentioned before in this prototype thread that happens to be in the "Prototype" section of the forum.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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