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Offline mvd71  
#51 Posted : 12 June 2021 09:26:31(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Yes just after WW2 it delivered items prone to "Zinkpest" but it was corrected by a series of measures.
Just after the turn of the century they again delivered items prone to "Zinkpest". Nothing learned, it seems.

Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I know in Australia there are laws that protect consumers from manufacturers whose claims are misleading, but I guess in Germany they don't exist.
Your guess is wrong. Germans are entitled to return fully working items if the documentation is too bad to get things working. Or if items do not keep what was promised.
Märklin have a problem with QA in general, they have a problem with software QA in particular. They have a problem with QA of English translations, especially with respect to CS2 GUI and CS3 GUI. Sometimes with the availability of English translations at all.





I suspect that as usual the real problem is the release of a product with inadequate instructions for the end user. This is not unusual today and is certainly not limited to Märklin or model trains.

The message that needs to be going back to all manufacturers is that shipping a product without a proper manual that fully explains the use of a product is simply not acceptable, and relying on your customers downloading and finding information online is not acceptable either.

The turntable may have been made to suit the average era3 user in terms of size, but if they need to turn to Internet forums to get it to work, then Märklin has failed.
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Offline Puttputtmaru  
#52 Posted : 12 June 2021 13:22:14(UTC)
Puttputtmaru

Canada   
Joined: 15/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 80
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post

The message that needs to be going back to all manufacturers is that shipping a product without a proper manual that fully explains the use of a product is simply not acceptable, and relying on your customers downloading and finding information online is not acceptable either.

The turntable may have been made to suit the average era3 user in terms of size, but if they need to turn to Internet forums to get it to work, then Märklin has failed.


I agree with you and this is permeating in more than you think. My profession which is controlled by a regulating body, more or less the same in any country I guess, has been informed that it is our responsibility to stay informed, based on the email they sent, to all the new rules, liability or procedures we have to adhere to. So if you missed an email among the hundreds I receive tough luck.

We actually with our hobby contribute to the problem as instead of inundating the manufacturer with requests we go for the internet which is faster and easier to deal with thanks to community such as this.
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Offline David Dewar  
#53 Posted : 12 June 2021 13:35:29(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,024
Location: Scotland
Why buy Marklin if you don’t like the product or the Company. Why not buy Roco or PIko and then tell them they are rubbish. If I buy something I don’t like then I don’t keep on buying it. As for Marklin I once got a faulty signal and had it replaced and I have no problems with that. All we are buying are toy trains which are now very expensive but do represent the original fairly well.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline mvd71  
#54 Posted : 13 June 2021 09:28:32(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post

The message that needs to be going back to all manufacturers is that shipping a product without a proper manual that fully explains the use of a product is simply not acceptable, and relying on your customers downloading and finding information online is not acceptable either.

The turntable may have been made to suit the average era3 user in terms of size, but if they need to turn to Internet forums to get it to work, then Märklin has failed.


I agree with you and this is permeating in more than you think. My profession which is controlled by a regulating body, more or less the same in any country I guess, has been informed that it is our responsibility to stay informed, based on the email they sent, to all the new rules, liability or procedures we have to adhere to. So if you missed an email among the hundreds I receive tough luck.

We actually with our hobby contribute to the problem as instead of inundating the manufacturer with requests we go for the internet which is faster and easier to deal with thanks to community such as this.


I’m guessing from your photo that you work in aviation, if so I know exactly what you mean.


Offline mvd71  
#55 Posted : 13 June 2021 09:35:24(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
Cool
Offline Drongo  
#56 Posted : 14 June 2021 13:46:12(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Why buy Marklin if you don’t like the product or the Company. Why not buy Roco or PIko and then tell them they are rubbish. If I buy something I don’t like then I don’t keep on buying it. As for Marklin I once got a faulty signal and had it replaced and I have no problems with that. All we are buying are toy trains which are now very expensive but do represent the original fairly well.


I think you are missing my point. Marklin promote themselves as been a quality manufacturer and the prices reflect this, however, they are not providing the products as advertised. And this is unacceptable.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Online H0  
#57 Posted : 14 June 2021 15:02:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,335
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Marklin promote themselves as been a quality manufacturer and the prices reflect this
The Märklin new item brochures always write about superior Märklin quality, Märklin TV always shows the QA at work.
They always talk about quality because they know what their greatest weakness is. Wink

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#58 Posted : 14 June 2021 17:08:45(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 559
Location: England, Suffolk
mvd71 says in thread #54 the following:

"I suspect that as usual the real problem is the release of a product with inadequate instructions for the end user. This is not unusual today and is certainly not limited to Märklin or model trains."

You are right, it doesn't apply only to model trains. I bought an Italian fountain pen a few moths ago and discovered by chance an interesting functionality. There is no mention about it in the provided documentation which is 99% marketing stuff. I complained with the seller and he said 'they are a young company give them time'. Obviously not, IMO.
The manufacturer and the seller have lost a repeat customer.

To get my internet connection I signed a paper contract. When I rescinded the contract, was moving back to UK, I was told that I had to pay extra fees. I replied that my signed paper contract didn't iniclude any extra fees but the lady on the phone kept telling me that the only valid contract was the one published on their website and that was the one I had to refer to.
Being it Italy and the law never protects the consumer, usually considered a thief, I just gave up and paid the requested 'fee'. A lawyer would have cost me more than the fee I had to pay, companies know this and they keep their extortionate rules in place.

I bought a PCB from an Italian train accessory company, found the item I needed, wrote a couple of emails, got the answers I needed and ordered the piece. The instructions can only be downloaded from their website and they tell you this, which is fine by me given that they answer all your questions in a timely fashion. The PCB solved my problem, it wasn't difficult to install and works beautifully with my 'vintage' loco.

All in all the internet is the excuse for producers to stop bothering about customer care and possibly ripping off the customers. This thing is bugging me more and more as time goes by, specially now with the pandemic.

Finished my rant :-) Still will not buy the round table
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Offline Drongo  
#59 Posted : 24 June 2021 07:46:34(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
After many frustrating hours and with the help of a friend, who is a Cardiologist and a computer programmer, we were able to get the TT working. The documentation from Marklin was at its uselessness with many significant steps omitted - obviously the person who wrote the manual had no idea what he was talking about, or he assumed we knew how to program the TT.

Apart from the lack of information in manual or ambiguous explanations, the TT is extremely delicate - the track inserts are fragile. There are basically 2 types of inserts - track or concrete. And each insert has a very small, microscopic insert that tells the computer that the insert is either a track or concrete, and guess what - these inserts fall out easily or fowl on the bridge when it rotates. They have to be glued in and positioned so they don't hit the bridge. This is an example of very poor designing. The small microscopic inserts should be moulded into the inserts, this way they won't fall out and they will be aligned correctly. They don't need to be removable as they need to be in position otherwise the decoder cannot function correctly.

I don't know how long the TT will last- fingers crossed, more than 2 years. In general, if you want to spend 600 euro (or better still, throw 600 euro out the window), buy one of these TT's.

Regards

Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline xxup  
#60 Posted : 24 June 2021 10:57:26(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,275
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
... a friend, who is a Cardiologist and a computer programmer, ...


The mind boggles.. Blink There must be a story about that combination..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Timnomads  
#61 Posted : 24 June 2021 11:48:07(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 238
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Hi all
Just to add, the actual TT bridge is not long enough to take the longest Marklin steam locomotives, oops !!Crying
I will stick with my old one.
Tim
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#62 Posted : 24 June 2021 14:47:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Hi
It take all normal DB locos including the BR 45 but not the ‘never built’ mallet german loco
Indeed only manual maneuvering

Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Drjoe11  
#63 Posted : 24 June 2021 19:13:29(UTC)
Drjoe11

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Florida, Leesburg
Not only are the instructions inadequate, but the gray sensor tabs keep falling out. I have an e-mail into marlin service to see if I can cement them in. Also, the TT will not register the tracks and the cement pieces correctly. It keeps changing the home position. If it were not the for the English translation from Guy at AJCKIDS I would be in real trouble. A very expensive model that tome, does not perform as expected.
Offline dickinsonj  
#64 Posted : 25 June 2021 01:12:57(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Location: United States
So we waited forever for this to finally appear and it is still not fully developed and is poorly documented?

Luckily I did not order one and if I had, my opinion of Märklin would have fallen even further.

Total fail Märklin - maybe you need to toss this in the bin and try again.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline mvd71  
#65 Posted : 25 June 2021 07:16:04(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
That’s a shame that such a new and expensive product is not meeting expectations. Glad I decided to stick with the k track unit.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#66 Posted : 25 June 2021 09:05:03(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,008
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
That’s a shame that such a new and expensive product is not meeting expectations. Glad I decided to stick with the k track unit.


Yes, I sympathise with those who had their natural expectations curbed after significant expense.

I had no need to consider any change from mine :


UserPostedImage
Online H0  
#67 Posted : 25 June 2021 09:24:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,335
Location: DE-NW
The old turntable for K track is still available from the manufacturer - only 90 cents more than the new one for C track when you compare the RRP. Ref. no. 665201.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mvd71  
#68 Posted : 25 June 2021 10:25:06(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The old turntable for K track is still available from the manufacturer - only 90 cents more than the new one for C track when you compare the RRP. Ref. no. 665201.


That’s good to know, thanks Tom
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#69 Posted : 25 June 2021 10:30:15(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 559
Location: England, Suffolk
I would write, on paper and with a real stamp on the envelope, a group letter to Marklin saying that this new product is rubbish listing all the issues encountered. How could they even release videos on how 'easy' it is to install ? BS !!!

That said, my grandfather was a mechanical engineer, he drew and developed many lorry engines in his life. Once he was asked to draft a manual for the maintenance of one of them and he knew that one piece wasn't easy to work on. The employer told him to write, in the manual, 'with a few easy operations this can be done'. Reason behind this was 'anybody that reads this description will go to the end of the world' to get it done :-)

Same for this TT
Offline scraigen  
#70 Posted : 25 June 2021 18:24:01(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 296
Location: Sheffield,
Is it just Drjoe11 and Drongo who actually have this thing?
Must build something
Offline Drjoe11  
#71 Posted : 25 June 2021 20:35:18(UTC)
Drjoe11

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Florida, Leesburg
There are some German folks who have it on YouTube. They must know something we don't because theirs work just fine!
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Offline scraigen  
#72 Posted : 25 June 2021 22:42:10(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 296
Location: Sheffield,
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
There are some German folks who have it on YouTube. They must know something we don't because theirs work just fine!


Sorry i meant who in this discussion has it. BigGrin
Must build something
Offline mvd71  
#73 Posted : 26 June 2021 05:41:06(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,445
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
There are some German folks who have it on YouTube. They must know something we don't because theirs work just fine!


I wouldn’t be surprised if the German instructions have more info. As I understand it translating technical German to English is not easy, so something may get lost in the process
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Offline hxmiesa  
#74 Posted : 26 June 2021 10:41:54(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,308
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
There are some German folks who have it on YouTube. They must know something we don't because theirs work just fine!

Actually, I find an equal amount of german youtubers who have the same problems.

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#75 Posted : 26 June 2021 12:37:05(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
There are some German folks who have it on YouTube. They must know something we don't because theirs work just fine!

Hi
This is because it is a good product with a fine German user's manual. Translation is not always so good. Germans are also good at reading carefully the manual before using it.

The key issue is installation:
- prepare a very thick base (Märklin advise 16mm) so that it is not warped.
- Also the key is to install all access tracks ALL THE WAY down to the pit's base, install connecting tracks, power them, screw them to the base plate BEFORE connecting those tracks to the rest of the layout.
- Also, don't play with the registering tabs that make the difference between concrete border and access tracks otherwise they won't stay in place.

Connect to the CS3 and let it start the identification of tracks

Don't cut the power when the TT is turning. That's it all is fine
Note: for very far away users there may be some transport issues.
Note: never apply force to remove an access track but UNLOCK it before removing.

Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline rbonet  
#76 Posted : 28 June 2021 19:24:05(UTC)
rbonet

Spain   
Joined: 01/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Hello Jean,
I just installed my 74861 and everything seems to be working fine with a few exceptions which I explain below. I'm using a CS3 with 2.3.1 (8) software, and I'm using the mfx protocol.
First, when I perform the initialization, the bridge makes a 360º turn and I can clearly hear the different tones depending on the small pieces in each position. I have checked that these pieces are placed correctly for each exit track or concrete. The problem is that once the turn is over, I don’t get the diagram with the yellow and concrete track positions that don’t show up in the diagram. What I have is the full circle with the 30 positions numbered and marked in gray. Where is the problem?
Also, I don't understand the following:
1) Why do we need one button for a 180º CW turn and another for a 180º CW turn? The final position is exactly the same.
2) Why there are not a couple of buttons to set the direction of movement, CW or CCW, without moving the platform, I mean.
3) The two arrows on each side of the bridge are redundant with two buttons in the row of buttons.
I’m not where I have my trains, so I won’t be able to check what you propose.
Hello,
Rafael
Collecting Era I, II & III, mainly German, French & Spanish RR, some USA
Offline JohnjeanB  
#77 Posted : 28 June 2021 21:14:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: rbonet Go to Quoted Post

The problem is that once the turn is over, I don’t get the diagram with the yellow and concrete track positions that don’t show up in the diagram. What I have is the full circle with the 30 positions numbered and marked in gray. Where is the problem?


Hi Rafael
For your problem I suggest you look at this video especially from 4:19

You must close the window (Schliessen) from which the initialisation was triggered otherwise the locations are not stored.
Make also sure that the Red and Brown connections to the turntable are not switched because the TT is sending back the information to the CS3 (but not in your case)

Originally Posted by: rbonet Go to Quoted Post

Also, I don't understand the following:
1) Why do we need one button for a 180º CW turn and another for a 180º CW turn? The final position is exactly the same.

I suppose you are offered a CW and a CCW 180° turn to have the possibility to stop in front of a specific track (STOP button)
Originally Posted by: rbonet Go to Quoted Post

2) Why there are not a couple of buttons to set the direction of movement, CW or CCW, without moving the platform, I mean.
I don't know for sure. For simplicity and compatibility with other ways to drive the TT (Central Unit 6020, MS2, Stellpult)
Originally Posted by: rbonet Go to Quoted Post

3) The two arrows on each side of the bridge are redundant with two buttons in the row of buttons.

Not sure I understand your point. To me it seems that for each direction there a "1 step" button (go to next track) and "180°" button So four arrows in all.
I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean




My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Drjoe11  
#78 Posted : 28 June 2021 22:41:54(UTC)
Drjoe11

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Florida, Leesburg
My problem is that when I try to do the calibration, it does not find track 1. Also it thinks some of the blank ares are really track sections. I have checked all of the gray and black sensor tabs, and they are all in place. I have tried to calibrate it several times and still it does not know track 1. I have tried several suggestions, but to no avail. I love Marklin, but this TT that I waited 2 years for is not the best product Marklin has made. The instructions in English are terrible. If anyone knows what to do to solve my problems, please, please help.

Thanks. Joe
Offline JohnjeanB  
#79 Posted : 29 June 2021 00:52:42(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
My problem is that when I try to do the calibration, it does not find track 1. Also it thinks some of the blank ares are really track sections. I have checked all of the gray and black sensor tabs, and they are all in place. I have tried to calibrate it several times and still it does not know track 1. I have tried several suggestions, but to no avail. I love Marklin, but this TT that I waited 2 years for is not the best product Marklin has made. The instructions in English are terrible. If anyone knows what to do to solve my problems, please, please help.

Thanks. Joe

Hi Joe
I believe there is no automatic detection of Track 1. When you start initializing, the TT is supposed to be on track 1.
If it is not you may either:
- unlock the TT as per the manual and move the TT so that the Cabin side of the bridge is sitting on the recess in the pit OR
- command the TT to move to track1 and then start the initializing

DON'T USE FORCE on the bridge as long as it is not UNLOCKED
Here is the command to unlock (in the Orange rectangle)
Sans titre.png
Cheers
Jean

Edited by user 29 June 2021 13:43:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline rbonet  
#80 Posted : 14 July 2021 09:44:52(UTC)
rbonet

Spain   
Joined: 01/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rbonet Go to Quoted Post

The problem is that once the turn is over, I don’t get the diagram with the yellow and concrete track positions that don’t show up in the diagram. What I have is the full circle with the 30 positions numbered and marked in gray. Where is the problem?


Hi Rafael
For your problem I suggest you look at this video especially from 4:19

You must close the window (Schliessen) from which the initialisation was triggered otherwise the locations are not stored.
Make also sure that the Red and Brown connections to the turntable are not switched because the TT is sending back the information to the CS3 (but not in your case)


This Märklin video is what I'm using as a guide. However, even if I follow the instructions, my turntable fails to initialize and I don't get the yellow marks in the diagram where there are exits with tracks. I have a video of my initialization process:

I'd tried to repeat the same process connecting the CS3 directly to the tracks instead of using the 60175 booster, but I get the same result.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Regards,
Rafael
Collecting Era I, II & III, mainly German, French & Spanish RR, some USA
Offline JohnjeanB  
#81 Posted : 14 July 2021 12:44:12(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Hi Rafael
Comparing both videos on your TT the cycle seems to complete (not sure because the video is not great and does not show the TT at the end).
What seems to be the case is that the data communication TT towards the CS3 is not working (in MFX mode). Are you sure you checked the wiring between the CS3 and the TT? (B and 0 not mixed up?)
Otherwise, it means your TT or CS3 (more likely the TT) has a problem.
To be sure connect ONLY the TT and the CS3, leaving all the rest disconnected and repeat the initialization
This is all that I can suggest
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline White Buffalo  
#82 Posted : 14 July 2021 17:09:34(UTC)
White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: South Dakota
Great info in this thread everyone. Thank you for posting up your issues, diagnosis attempts and solutions. Danke sehr!
Offline rbonet  
#83 Posted : 14 July 2021 20:47:55(UTC)
rbonet

Spain   
Joined: 01/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Rafael
Comparing both videos on your TT the cycle seems to complete (not sure because the video is not great and does not show the TT at the end).
What seems to be the case is that the data communication TT towards the CS3 is not working (in MFX mode). Are you sure you checked the wiring between the CS3 and the TT? (B and 0 not mixed up?)
Otherwise, it means your TT or CS3 (more likely the TT) has a problem.
To be sure connect ONLY the TT and the CS3, leaving all the rest disconnected and repeat the initialization
This is all that I can suggest
Cheers
Jean

Jean,
First of all thankyou for your effort trying to understand my messages ang giving advice. I apologize for the quality of my video Crying. The cycle completes, as in the Märklin's video: the TT returns to the starting position and the CS3 takes some time to do his caveats.
I've checked the wiring multiple times, and I've used several wiring solutions:
1) The CS3 disconnected of the Booster and the LinkS88 and only the control wires of the TT connected directly to the CS3 direct output (green connector)
2) Same as above but TT connected to the CS3 programming track output
3) Same as 1) but reversing the O and B wires
4) Booster and LinkS88 connected to CS3. TT control wires connected to Booster output

All of the above give the same results. The initialization process seems to run perfectly, with the blinking light in the house and the two different beep tones depending on whether there is a track or not. The only problem is that the TT diagram in the CS3 will not show the yellow squares where there is a track.

I've other questions regarding what I observe on the CS3:
1) On the TT configuration screen there are a digital and a manual Track 1 settings. If I try the (digital) Track 1 setting by tapping "track 1 setting", writing down a track number and tapping the "end" button The CS3 shows and “Information” window with the following text: “The track 1 correction is only possible with a Dcc or Mfx turntable!”. Up to what I know, my TT is using Mfx, so I can’t understand what the message means.
2) On the CS3, doing an Edit, Edit Article List, I see that my CS3 has seven “articles” related to the TT, named D1, DS.X 1 to 4 and DS.L 1 & 2. The first article is the TT itself and the remaining six are sounds and lights. If a look article by article I see that they all use the MM protocol and have the following addresses: 225, 236, 237, 238, 238, 239 and 240. The 238 address appears twice. The address numbers are shown in black, except the 236 and the 238 which are shown in red. What is the meaning of the black/red colors? The Help on the CS3 does not explain it.
Best regards,
Rafael

Collecting Era I, II & III, mainly German, French & Spanish RR, some USA
Offline JohnjeanB  
#84 Posted : 14 July 2021 20:56:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Well Rafael
The only remaining possibility is that MFX protocol is disabled on your CS3 so possibly no return path for the TT to have its report on track layout accepted by the CS3.
I am not sure but this is a possibility: driving the TT from the address 225 using MM2 protocol or DCC
Apart of this I don't see any other explanation except a failure somewhere. Do you have a friend with a CS3 nearby your place (or a Märklin dealer)?
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Drongo  
#85 Posted : 16 July 2021 12:38:15(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
I have an ESU EcoS and not a CS3. I've been on the ESU forum and I've been told that I cannot initialise the TT with an EcoS. Apparently, an EcoS can only access mfx decoders for locomotives and not for mfx accessories, and therefore the EcoS cannot work the TT under DCC protocol. Is this correct ?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Online H0  
#86 Posted : 16 July 2021 13:01:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,335
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I have an ESU EcoS and not a CS3. I've been on the ESU forum and I've been told that I cannot initialise the TT with an EcoS. Apparently, an EcoS can only access mfx decoders for locomotives and not for mfx accessories, and therefore the EcoS cannot work the TT under DCC protocol. Is this correct ?
The manual indicates that a CS2 or CS3 is required to activate the DCC mode of the turntable.

However the manual also indicates that mfx and MM are active by default, so it should be possible to use the TT in MM mode with an ECoS out of the box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#87 Posted : 16 July 2021 14:01:02(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I have an ESU EcoS and not a CS3. I've been on the ESU forum and I've been told that I cannot initialise the TT with an EcoS. Apparently, an EcoS can only access mfx decoders for locomotives and not for mfx accessories, and therefore the EcoS cannot work the TT under DCC protocol. Is this correct ?

Hi Drongo
On an ECOS you don't have the special program for the 74861 to process the result of the turn table initialisation.
You have all the rest to pilot your TT in DCC or in MM. It can even be used in MFX but the initialisation result will not show on your ECOS.
No big deal you can use your TT at most of its possibilities I think
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Drongo  
#88 Posted : 09 August 2021 07:57:01(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
As we are in lockdown and likely to be for another month or 2, I've been spending a lot of time trying to get the TT to work. Fortunately, Marklin are releasing video tutorials on helping to use the TT and very helpfully, Mr. AJCKIDS in USA has done the English translation very well. However, it seems that the TT will only work with a CS2 or CS3 and not an EcoS. The TT has 30 outlets whereas the EcoS defaults to 48 outlets and the EcoS cannot initialise the TT. I know that Marklin say that the TT is DCC compatible however it doesn't explain how to setup the DCC. Does anyone know how to do this ? I thought if I used a CS3 to change the setting to DCC and then use the EcoS it would solve the problem. Am I being too ambitious ???!!!

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline Drongo  
#89 Posted : 20 August 2021 14:49:33(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
As we are in lockdown and likely to be for another month or 2, I've been spending a lot of time trying to get the TT to work. Fortunately, Marklin are releasing video tutorials on helping to use the TT and very helpfully, Mr. AJCKIDS in USA has done the English translation very well. However, it seems that the TT will only work with a CS2 or CS3 and not an EcoS. The TT has 30 outlets whereas the EcoS defaults to 48 outlets and the EcoS cannot initialise the TT. I know that Marklin say that the TT is DCC compatible however it doesn't explain how to setup the DCC. Does anyone know how to do this ? I thought if I used a CS3 to change the setting to DCC and then use the EcoS it would solve the problem. Am I being too ambitious ???!!!

Regards
Greg


I've had some information from the ESU forum to say that the TT cannot work under DCC using an EcoS, as the EcoS doesn't recognise mfx for accessories. Therefore I believe I've been misled into believing that the TT ran under mfx AND DCC protocol. Is this correct ?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Online H0  
#90 Posted : 20 August 2021 15:03:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,335
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I've had some information from the ESU forum to say that the TT cannot work under DCC using an EcoS, as the EcoS doesn't recognise mfx for accessories.
No link to the forum. Official ESU information or opinion of a forum member?
According to the manual the TT can be operated using the 6021 - the 6021 cannot recognise mfx accessories. If the 6021 can do it, the ECoS should also be able to do it using MM protocol. And according to the manual DCC operation is also possible.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline pederbc  
#91 Posted : 20 August 2021 16:34:29(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi,
I don’t have this TT, but it may behave the same as Märklin lokdecoders. They will listen to what protocols are active on the track and then have the following priority: 1: Mfx, 2:DCC, 3:MM. So, if it can ”hear” Mfx it will only listen to Mfx etc etc. If this is the case you can either turn off Mfx (M4) in the ECoS or in the TT (if possible).

Peder
Offline White Buffalo  
#92 Posted : 20 August 2021 16:42:33(UTC)
White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: South Dakota
Good info Pederbc, I am new to the ESU command station. But just noticed yesterday that you can modify the settings to use the protocol(s) you prefer
Online H0  
#93 Posted : 20 August 2021 17:14:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,335
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
I don’t have this TT, but it may behave the same as Märklin lokdecoders. They will listen to what protocols are active on the track and then have the following priority: 1: Mfx, 2:DCC, 3:MM. So, if it can ”hear” Mfx it will only listen to Mfx etc etc. If this is the case you can either turn off Mfx (M4) in the ECoS or in the TT (if possible).
The manual indicates that DCC is off by default and that a Central Station is required to activate DCC. Maybe not the best factory default settings, but that's how it is.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline pederbc  
#94 Posted : 20 August 2021 18:00:17(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
On page 1 in this thread there is this picture and instruction. Try it…
91CC45FD-4616-4F86-B70E-65FFFE6AB032.jpeg
Offline pederbc  
#95 Posted : 20 August 2021 18:07:32(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
According to the manual it defaults to Motorola/Mfx. So if used as a Motorola accessory set to address 225 it should be possible to use the table above.
Offline Drongo  
#96 Posted : 21 August 2021 14:11:51(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I've had some information from the ESU forum to say that the TT cannot work under DCC using an EcoS, as the EcoS doesn't recognise mfx for accessories.
No link to the forum. Official ESU information or opinion of a forum member?
According to the manual the TT can be operated using the 6021 - the 6021 cannot recognise mfx accessories. If the 6021 can do it, the ECoS should also be able to do it using MM protocol. And according to the manual DCC operation is also possible.



Even if the EcoS can run the TT under DCC, the other problem is that the EcoS doesn't have the facility to change the number of outlets on a TT. The default setting for Marklin is 48 outlets and the TT has only 30 outlets.
Does anyone know how to change this setting on the EcoS ?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline pederbc  
#97 Posted : 21 August 2021 14:22:10(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Well, until ESU update the special turntable function (if ever) you will have to run it like the table above. Set all functions as accessories. Not so nice but should be workable.

Peder
Offline Drongo  
#98 Posted : 24 August 2021 12:43:26(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Well, until ESU update the special turntable function (if ever) you will have to run it like the table above. Set all functions as accessories. Not so nice but should be workable.

Peder


Thank you for the list. My understanding is that addresses 229 to 236 are assigned to 8 outlets - how do I actually do this on the EcoS ?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Online kiwiAlan  
#99 Posted : 24 August 2021 22:52:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,430
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Well, until ESU update the special turntable function (if ever) you will have to run it like the table above. Set all functions as accessories. Not so nice but should be workable.

Peder


Thank you for the list. My understanding is that addresses 229 to 236 are assigned to 8 outlets - how do I actually do this on the EcoS ?


See if the 04/2021 Marklin Magazine is available on Marklins web site. It has an article on setting up the new turntable for all possible Marklin methods of control, and I am sure one of them will be applicable to the EcOS.

Offline Drongo  
#100 Posted : 25 August 2021 06:23:35(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Well, until ESU update the special turntable function (if ever) you will have to run it like the table above. Set all functions as accessories. Not so nice but should be workable.

Peder


Thank you for the list. My understanding is that addresses 229 to 236 are assigned to 8 outlets - how do I actually do this on the EcoS ?


See if the 04/2021 Marklin Magazine is available on Marklins web site. It has an article on setting up the new turntable for all possible Marklin methods of control, and I am sure one of them will be applicable to the EcOS.



I'm a club member, however this issue hasn't arrived yet and I can't seem to download it.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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