 Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
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Recently, (yesterday) I saw a OO gauge model railroad operating outdoors. OO is just a bit larger than HO, but operating on the same gauge track. I'm wondering if operating outdoors in any gauge is something that could become more commonplace. It is pretty common with G scale trains, but not so in the smaller gauges. Operating outdoors would open up available space for a really large layout. Part of it could start and end indoors, but the majority of operation would be outdoors. What would be the cons to operating outdoors? Right now, my layout is confined to an 11' x 10' room, while I have 8 acres of land around me not being used. I understand there would be operating obstacles, such as grass height, rain and other environmental issues. My first thought would be to have the track elevated for easy viewing and construction. By keeping the elevation low, you could incorporate outdoor features like grass, plants, water. Does this sound too much of a problem? Your views would be much appreciated. I started a garden railway a while back, but the equipment was prohibitively too expensive, so I dropped it. But now that I am back in HO, I'm thinking again about outdoor operation. Would Marklin track hold up outdoors or other 2-rail track systems? Brass and steel rail appears to be out due to corrosion. Would nickel silver track hold up outdoors? I'm posting this to get your opinions on the feasibility of such a scheme. It works in G scale; why not in the smaller scales?
Weather obviously has a lot to do with it, but some areas of the country might be more conducive to outdoor operation than others. A more moderate climate may be best over a harsh climate for outdoor operation. The area I live in (South Mississippi) is pretty moderate and that is why I bring this up.
The OO gauge railway I mentioned was a long loop operating in the UK with no turnouts . Maybe turnout operation would be subject to the environment being outdoors. It sure looked good running on a long straight-a-way, pulling a long string of cars and crossing a bridge over a real water obstacle. I'm sure it would take a lot of maintenance to keep running.
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 3 users liked this useful post by Mr. Ron
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 Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,842 Location: Hybrid Home
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There are rare attempts documented (see videos below) of running Maerklin H0 outdoors in Germany. Common denominator for successful outcome: - Temporary (only in summer). - Avoid tall grass. - Use elevated track segments (track fixed on long wooden slats) which can be quickly (dis-)assembled. A Google search for "Maerklin H0" and "Garten" will deliver more German video links. |
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1 user liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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 Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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In the past I have had 12v DC trains running outdoors on Peco (?) flexible track (which from memory does not rust). The layout lasted from one year to next but did need cleaning.
I would love to do the same with Märklin but can see no way of making long rustproof sections of track (I have M track!).
It is great to see long gentle curves and long trains.
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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I suspect that the distances between the two electrical circuits in HO scale makes a permanent installation impractical in the long run. The rail and studs need to be exposed to the train and thus also to the elements. Dirty water will then bridge them. Perhaps a robust catenary system may resolve that issue. I think battery powered trains, controlled wirelessly, would be the best technical solution, removing the need for rails the rails to be conductive. One may even be able to connect battery packs in the first coach(es) and the receiver to a locomotive that has a permanent magnet (after disconnecting any decoder).
If you could create a seasonally stable roadbed, perhaps laying C-track out each year/session would be doable. It may take a day to set up all the track and connect feeders to permanent underground cables, and a day to dismantle it. I would just lay the roadbed, without towns and stations, just to see nice long trains going along long stretches of straight track. |
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 Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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Originally Posted by: Michael4  In the past I have had 12v DC trains running outdoors on Peco (?) flexible track (which from memory does not rust). The layout lasted from one year to next but did need cleaning.
I would love to do the same with Märklin but can see no way of making long rustproof sections of track (I have M track!).
It is great to see long gentle curves and long trains.
Maybe Peco flex track with their stud contacts system will do... (just an idea, no experience on that) |
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Sheffield,
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Biggest issue that springs to mind is dirt getting into the turnouts. |
Must build something |
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 Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
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 The rails of C-track doesn't rust; but the pukos rust very fast I would go for a 2-rail system ( Running and hiding now  ) Since it works with Peco tracks for 1-gauge and LGB, I see no reason why it shouldn't work on H0 also........ Per. |
If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.  |
1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
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 Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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I would use k track flex, but mount it in Merkur roadbed that is fixed to long plywood strips that can be layed out quickly and easily, and removed again when the weather doesn’t suit. That would be the best compromise in my mind, and would be conducive to prototypical radius curves.
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1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
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Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 324
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It is just impossible for Märklin because the track systems are not made for outdoor use at all. After one night outside in the garden the rust will come up. |
Best regards
Martin |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: 60904 It is just impossible for Märklin because the track systems are not made for outdoor use at all. There is more than just H0 track from Märklin. Märklin H0 three-rail track has rust problems with the centre-rail, but I heard that folks who use it outdoor add a touch of oil to reduce rust. Not sure how well it works. Z gauge and I gauge may have less rust problems. Trix H0 C track is also from the Märklin company and should have no rust issues. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,049
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I wonder how well HO track of any type will hold up against UV radiation. LGB track has UV inhibitors in the plastic ties to protect it from sunlight. I wouldn't think that HO track manufacturers would bother the inhibitors to their products.
Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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1 user liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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My Friend Boyd Mistear tested some track outside.
Triang OO rusted (through a winter)
Peco OO was good (through a winter)
C-Track (early plastic) became very brittle, quicker than indoors (few months)
New C-Track plastic was not tested. |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,467 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz My Friend Boyd Mistear tested some track outside.
Triang OO rusted (through a winter)
Peco OO was good (through a winter)
C-Track (early plastic) became very brittle, quicker than indoors (few months)
New C-Track plastic was not tested. For outdoors I think I would rather use either Peco or K track. With Peco I would use Weichen-Walter pukos.
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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Oh I like the look of those Weichen-Walter pukos for Peko.
I can see it now, for a starter I can put shelving brackets on the garden fence and run a shelf all the way down the garden. Use 6600 to instigate a shuttle operation at both ends maybe, a few drainpipe tunnels under bushes etc and the beginnings of a simple track is created. The length will be defined by budget rather than space available!
In England we don't have sufficiently long periods of good weather to spend time assembling and dismantling. It will start raining before you have got it all together...
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2 users liked this useful post by Michael4
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Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
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Thank you all for your response. The idea of running HO outdoors obviously depends on the area of the world that has a moderate and stable climate. I can think of parts of Florida and California where it would be feasible. Track appears to be the big problem. No one has an HO track designed for outdoor use. Due to the limited places where outdoor HO would work, I don't think any manufacturers would be willing to develop a suitable track system for outdoor use. There appears to be too many negative aspects for an HO outdoor system to gain much interest. For those who have operated successfully outdoors, must live in a place where the conditions are perfect. I guess it's just 1 gauge or nothing.
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2 users liked this useful post by Mr. Ron
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron I guess it's just 1 gauge or nothing. I guess G gauge is the dominant gauge for outdoor use, not I gauge. The Märklin company offers both gauges. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 244 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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As far as I understand there are a number of 0 gauge outdoor layouts in the US. I set up an oval with Gargraves 3-rail tracks just for the summer. It doesn't look nice, but it is made for outdoor use. |
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold. |
1 user liked this useful post by blid
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,884 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Mainly so Mr. Ron undrstands: The difference betwen gague and scale means track width vs. size. Ex; HOn3 scale runs on N gague track. As for G vs. 1 scale, I think the G scale trains are of a less finer detail, more plastic parts for outdoor use, and lower cost tha ! scale which are made more of metal and brass with much more detail and a higher price of course.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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G gauge is IIm gauge. Same rail spacing as I gauge, but different scale and different rail dimensions. There are nice G gauge models from narrow-gauge prototypes. Some G gauge "models" for standard-gauge prototypes are somewhat condensed and not all proportions are correct.
AIUI models for I gauge can usually run on G gauge track, but the opposite is more likely to fail.
Märklin Minex is Oe gauge, usually running on Märklin H0 track. But real Oe track is much different from H0 track with respect to sleepers and many other aspects. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
2 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,842 Location: Hybrid Home
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I knew that I already posted something about this earler (in 2016 to be more precise), see posts 63/64/65 in below thread: https://www.marklin-user...s-in-H0-scale#post535525Märklin H0 scale „Gartenbahn“, seasonally mounted from March to October 2010 and 2011, respectively. M track was conserved with Teroson from below and spar vanish from above, except for railheads and PuKos for ensuring proper power pickup; C track was allowed to sport prototypical rust. Althoug operations were interrupted during rainfalls, the track could remain outside during the entire season because of the conservation measures. |
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