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Offline aclassifier  
#1 Posted : 21 June 2021 18:58:36(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
I read in [1] page 240 that the Telex-Kupplung was invented in 1958. I can see it in my oldest manual: 1961-62. In [1] page 92 it says that:

"Dafür war im Bereich der Tenderkupplung eine magnetspule angeordnet, welche auf eine Schaltfolge des in der Lok untergebrachten Fahrtrichtungsschalters reagierte, der über der Regelknopf des Fahrtrafos gesteuert werde."

In English by Google translate:

"For this purpose, a magnetic coil was arranged in the area of the tender coupling, which responded to a switching sequence of the flight direction switch housed in the locomotive, which is controlled via the control button of the driving transformer."

I never had any such loco.

Q1. How was the control button sequence?

Q2. Then, I notice that when Märklin started with digital, Telex couplings were out for some years on the new digital locos. Is this a correct feeling?

Q3. Then the digital versions seem to contain a magnet and anchor (anker). From a parts diagram. I assume the analogue and the digital versions were quite equal. Or were there any changes being made for the digital version?

Then, in a 2018 read [2] I paste that

"Top-Innovation: 2D-Aktor für Telex-Kupplung
Schlanke Telex-Kupplung: Zu sehen ist ein Prototyp der Kupplung, in der sich der mäanderförmige Aktor mit Formgedächtnis befindet.
In das H0-Clubmodell 2018 von Märklin und Trix wird erst- mals eine patentierte kompakte Telex-Kupplung auf Basis einer Formgedächtnisfolie eingebaut. Dabei ersetzt der 2D-Aktor einen deutlich größeren elektromagnetischen Schalter. „Das Material ist die Maschine“, beschreibt Dr. Marcel Gültig, Mitgründer und Cheftechniker von Memetis (www.memetis.com), pointiert das Plus der Formgedächt- nislegierung. „Befindet sich die mäanderförmige Folie im kühlen Zustand, so ist die Kupplung geschlossen – eine Feder zieht an dem Aktor und drückt so die Entkupp- lungsarme nach unten.“ Ein Wunder geschieht, wenn ein winziger elektrischer Impuls den Aktor erhitzt: Er erinnert sich an seine Ursprungsform. Sein unsymmetrisches Kristallgitter wandelt sich in ein symmetrisches Gitter, der Mäander verkürzt sich und bewegt dadurch den Bügel. Das Start-up des Karlsruhe Institute of Techno- logy beherrscht die Strukturierung von folienbasierten Miniatur-Aktoren aus Formgedächtnislegierungen für definierte Stelllängen und Kräfte, wie sie für Systeme der Bioanalytik und Medizintechnik nachgefragt werden. In einem iterativen Prozess haben die Märklin Entwicklung und Memetis die Kupplung zur Marktreife gebracht. Eine Herausforderung, wie Memetis Managing Director Marcel Gültig erklärt: „In der Telex-Kupplung gibt es beispiels- weise Schnittstellen zwischen Feder und Bügel – und alles muss sich bewegen können.“ Doch am Ende trium- phiert die Produktdesignkunst über die Materie."

In English by Google translate:

"Top innovation: 2D actuator for Telex coupling
Slim Telex coupling: You can see a prototype of the coupling in which the meander-shaped actuator with shape memory is located.
For the first time, a patented, compact Telex coupling based on a shape memory foil will be installed in the 2018 H0 Club model from Märklin and Trix. The 2D actuator replaces a much larger electromagnetic switch. "The material is the machine", describes Dr. Marcel gilt, co-founder and chief technician of Memetis (www.memetis.com), pointed out the plus of the shape memory alloy. “If the meandering film is cool, the clutch is closed - a spring pulls on the actuator and pushes the decoupling arms downwards.” A miracle happens when a tiny electrical impulse heats the actuator: it remembers its original form. Its asymmetrical crystal lattice changes into a symmetrical lattice, the meander shortens and thereby moves the bracket. The start-up of the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology masters the structuring of foil-based miniature actuators made of shape memory alloys for defined operating lengths and forces, as required for bioanalytical and medical technology systems. In an iterative process, Märklin Development and Memetis brought the coupling to market maturity. A challenge, as Memetis Managing Director Marcel Valid explains: “In the Telex coupling, for example, there are interfaces between spring and bracket - and everything must be able to move.” But in the end, the art of product design triumphs over the matter."

Memetis even shows an animated graphics at [3].

This is, as far as I understand, the "New Telex coupling". I have found it in these H0 locos (by searching for "New Telex" on the Märklin page and going through all hits):

26617 "DSB" Train Set
36083 Class 280 Diesel Locomotive
36344 Class 333 Diesel Locomotive
36345 Class Köf III Diesel Locomotive
36346 Class Köf III Diesel Locomotive
37063 Class 80 Steam Locomotive
37068 Class 80 Steam Locomotive
37244 Class Di5 Diesel Locomotive
39213 Class 213 Diesel Locomotive
39567 Class Ce 6/8 II "Crocodile" Electric Locomotive (UPDATE: [4] also has a picture of the New Telex)
39690 Class 260 Diesel Locomotive
39902 Class 290 Diesel Locomotive

Q4. Did I miss any or got them wrong?

Q5. Which important questions did I miss?

[1] Die legende lebt. 150 Jahre märkln (ISBN 978-3-8375-0129-2, 2009)
[2] https://www.maerklin.de/...a/MM_1801_Clubmodell.pdf
[3] https://www.memetis.com/en/actuation/
[4] https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/39567
Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 21 June 2021 19:52:35(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
I have a 3760 with them, and a 3751 with one on the tender.
Offline aclassifier  
#3 Posted : 21 June 2021 19:57:04(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I have a 3760 with them, and a 3751 with one on the tender.


I cannot find them.. Maybe a number more is needed?

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 21 June 2021 22:02:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I read in [1] page 240 that the Telex-Kupplung was invented in 1958. I can see it in my oldest manual: 1961-62. In [1] page 92 it says that:
...
In English by Google translate:

"For this purpose, a magnetic coil was arranged in the area of the tender coupling, which responded to a switching sequence of the flight direction switch housed in the locomotive, which is controlled via the control button of the driving transformer."

I never had any such loco.

Q1. How was the control button sequence?


It was done using the reverse unit. The sequence would be as follows: -
forward
forward with Telex operated
reverse
reverse with Telex operated

Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post

Q2. Then, I notice that when Märklin started with digital, Telex couplings were out for some years on the new digital locos. Is this a correct feeling?

Q3. Then the digital versions seem to contain a magnet and anchor (anker). From a parts diagram. I assume the analogue and the digital versions were quite equal. Or were there any changes being made for the digital version?

I can't remember the first digital loco to have a Telex uncoupler fitted, but I think it may have been the V60 included in the 2601/2602 set. The original Telex mechanism had a solenoid mounted under the end of the loco or tender, which when operated, lifted the magnetic armature to lift the loop of the coupled coupling above the pin on the loco coupling.

Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post

Then, in a 2018 read [2] I paste that

...

This is, as far as I understand, the "New Telex coupling". I have found it in these H0 locos (by searching for "New Telex" on the Märklin page and going through all hits):
...


This is the newest Telex unit. There was a much bulkier 'new' Telex in between the two models of Telex that you have described. It wasn't very popular because of the bulk hanging below the coupling.

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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 21 June 2021 22:13:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I have a 3760 with them, and a 3751 with one on the tender.


I cannot find them.. Maybe a number more is needed?

Both 3760 and 3751 are models of SBB Re 460. No tender though...
No Telex either.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 22 June 2021 02:34:56(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
Without looking at the boxes, one is a DB cargo diesel switcher, and the other is a br 51 steamer with a cab tender.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 22 June 2021 08:05:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Without looking at the boxes, one is a DB cargo diesel switcher, and the other is a br 51 steamer with a cab tender.
Sounds like a BR V 60 (BR 36x) and a BR 50.
Maybe 37650 and 37841.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline aclassifier  
#8 Posted : 22 June 2021 08:23:32(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Without looking at the boxes, one is a DB cargo diesel switcher, and the other is a br 51 steamer with a cab tender.
Sounds like a BR V 60 (BR 36x) and a BR 50.
Maybe 37650 and 37841.

That seems correct. With text from Märklin's pages:

37650 BR V 60 DB Diesel Locomotive has Telex front and rear (2002)
37841 BR 50 DB Freight Locomotive has Telex in the tender (2001)

In other words, they cannot be the "New tender" type (2018). Thanks.


Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 22 June 2021 08:28:18(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
37841, yes. Not a V 60. It's a br 362.
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 22 June 2021 08:42:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Not a V 60. It's a br 362.
BR 362 is BR V 60. The loco was V 60 when it was built, but number changed over time to 260 and later 360 and 362.
The driver of a 3xx loco gets less money than the driver of a 2xx loco, so the change from 260 to 360 helped them to save money. The change from 360 to 362 indicates a new diesel motor was installed.
But Telex couplers are on topic here.

The various V 60 models by Märklin had different Telex couplers over time.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Timnomads  
#11 Posted : 22 June 2021 09:49:46(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Hi

I have the Crocodile, I am not impressed with the reliability of the telex coupler, it is now on its third trip back to Marklin for reparation of the telex coupler. Good job it has a 5 year guarantee !!
Cursing
Anybody else with similar expierences ??

Tim
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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 22 June 2021 13:03:58(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
Correct Tom, how could I forget that?
Timmonds, and at a premium Insider model price!!!-------membership included........They either need to improve the telex coupler, or extend the 5 year warranty.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 22 June 2021 21:10:59(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,123
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I read in [1] page 240 that the Telex-Kupplung was invented in 1958. I can see it in my oldest manual: 1961-62. In [1] page 92 it says that:

Hi
Just for fun here is a bit of history on Telex coupling.
The inventor of the "Telex Kupplung" is Trix in 1938 with the mainline lokomotive 20/59 on a Trix-Express coupling
Here is a picture I borrowed from Trixstadt.de Here is the full link https://trixstadt.de/tri...eiten-und-zwangsverkauf/
Sans titre.png
Cheers
Jean

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Offline aclassifier  
#14 Posted : 23 June 2021 16:41:15(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I read in [1] page 240 that the Telex-Kupplung was invented in 1958. I can see it in my oldest manual: 1961-62. In [1] page 92 it says that:

Hi
Just for fun here is a bit of history on Telex coupling.
The inventor of the "Telex Kupplung" is Trix in 1938 with the mainline lokomotive 20/59 on a Trix-Express coupling
Here is a picture I borrowed from Trixstadt.de Here is the full link https://trixstadt.de/tri...eiten-und-zwangsverkauf/
Sans titre.png
Cheers
Jean


Thanks, @JohnjeanB. Google translate to English is here:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://trixstadt.de/trix-express-geschichte/1938-neuheiten-und-zwangsverkauf/

The read is a hair-raising experience. It's admirable that those guys could patent anything at all during those times. Thank you for this reference!

Øyvind
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Offline aclassifier  
#15 Posted : 23 June 2021 20:09:16(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
It was done using the reverse unit. The sequence would be as follows: -
forward
forward with Telex operated
reverse
reverse with Telex operated

All the below is for the electromechanical Telex, not the one controlled digitally.

Let me try it with words.
  • After the change direction from reversing to forward, the rear Telex uncoupled the car with a short pulse as the loco was controlled to move forwards.
  • After the change direction from forwarding to reversing, the front Telex uncoupled the car with a short pulse as the loco was controlled to move backwards.

Or did one have to do the "change direction" twice and then a "drive" after the second?
Plus, was the pulse length made in the loco (by som camshaft) or did it last as long as the "change direction" was active?
How basically, was the electromechanical design in the loco?
You see, I definitively don't yet understand!
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

This is the newest Telex unit. There was a much bulkier 'new' Telex in between the two models of Telex that you have described. It wasn't very popular because of the bulk hanging below the coupling.

Do you know which models which had this bulky "proto new Telex"?

I did have a Fleischmann 396071 (DR E 60) once that had a bulky "Telex"? See The controllable couplings some times touch the studs
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 23 June 2021 20:30:26(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
It was done using the reverse unit. The sequence would be as follows: -
forward
forward with Telex operated
reverse
reverse with Telex operated

All the below is for the electromechanical Telex, not the one controlled digitally.

Let me try it with words.
  • After the change direction from reversing to forward, the rear Telex uncoupled the car with a short pulse as the loco was controlled to move forwards.
  • After the change direction from forwarding to reversing, the front Telex uncoupled the car with a short pulse as the loco was controlled to move backwards.

Or did one have to do the "change direction" twice and then a "drive" after the second?
Plus, was the pulse length made in the loco (by som camshaft) or did it last as long as the "change direction" was active?
How basically, was the electromechanical design in the loco?
You see, I definitively don't yet understand!


The Telex was active until the next reversing pulse stepped the reversing mechanism to its next notch.

Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

This is the newest Telex unit. There was a much bulkier 'new' Telex in between the two models of Telex that you have described. It wasn't very popular because of the bulk hanging below the coupling.

Do you know which models which had this bulky "proto new Telex"?

I did have a Fleischmann 396071 (DR E 60) once that had a bulky "Telex"? See The controllable couplings some times touch the studs


I don't recall off hand which models had the bulky telex, and I am not aware if Marklin supplied the unit to other companies, so don't know if the unot fitted to the Fleischmann loco you mention is a Marklin assembly - it could have been retrofitted if you bought it second hand.


Offline cookee_nz  
#17 Posted : 26 June 2021 03:26:14(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,954
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I read in [1] page 240 that the Telex-Kupplung was invented in 1958. I can see it in my oldest manual: 1961-62. In [1] page 92 it says that:

Hi
Just for fun here is a bit of history on Telex coupling.

The inventor of the "Telex Kupplung" is Trix in 1938 with the mainline lokomotive 20/59 on a Trix-Express coupling

Here is a picture I borrowed from Trixstadt.de Here is the full link https://trixstadt.de/tri...eiten-und-zwangsverkauf/

Cheers
Jean



Thanks for that link Jean, very interesting read, and a sad story for the Bing name even though they did escape the horrors.

It appears that although Trix did invent/patent "remote uncoupling", they didn't give it a catchy name? Unlike Märklin who seem to have used a similar design principle, but had the foresight to patent and name "Telex".

So it's still arguably true that Märklin invented "Telex", but not "remote uncoupling"

BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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