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Offline owidgie  
#1 Posted : 13 May 2021 21:12:03(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 103
Ok, so I need someone to turn their brain back to the 6021 days. I have a question about how to keep a digital locomotive decoder alive in a stop section so the sounds and lights stay on. This is a scenario that does not use a brake module but track power is cut by a signal/k83 or control box etc.

I remember something about a resistor or diode or both that was needed.

Can anybody turn back their mind for this answer because I obviously can't.

Thanks


Rick
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 13 May 2021 21:36:07(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,732
Location: Paris, France
Hi Rick
Ah the good old days.
To keep alive the old decoders a 1 kOhm resistor was needed in parallel to the contact of each stop section.

At the time there were 2 reasons for that:
1- the memory was volatile (loses its content after one minute when the decoder was new but faster when old)
2- the digital coding (MM) was not sending the direction bit

So the result was often - in absence of this resistor - the loco starting in the wrong direction.

Note: this works only if the loco on the stop section has no direct feed to lamps (only though the decoder).
Otherwise the additional lamps would make an instant discharge of the decoders capacitor and making it lose its memory

Cheers

Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline owidgie  
#3 Posted : 13 May 2021 21:57:42(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 103
Thanks Jean!

This is very helpful.

Rick
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2021 17:18:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,260
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
To keep alive the old decoders a 1 kOhm resistor was needed in parallel to the contact of each stop section.
In the days of the 6021 resistors of 1k5 were used to keep the memory alive.
Of course, the current is not enough to keep the sounds alive and in most cases it won't keep the lights alive - exceptions are very efficient white LEDs.

So to have sounds and lights, the only option is a brake module.

The 6021 was sending the direction bit, but some old decoders didn't make use of it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 15 May 2021 02:22:15(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,210
Location: Montreal, QC
It would seem to me that some kind of route programming would allow you to stop a train at a certain point and then resume again, without losing any functions. The signal would have to instruct the programmer to stop that train rather than simply cutting off power to that section of track.

Regards

Mike c
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 15 May 2021 12:49:08(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,732
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mike, Hi everybody
There are certainly ways with the CS3 and its latest software to do programming ("Event") which include almost anything; loco commands including start, stop and sound, switch and uncoupler commands but also the new MACROS (IF, OR, AND, LOOP, BLOCK). So it is possible to create very interesting fully automatic train runs. There are indirect ways for the CS3 to sort of remember where it is by checking (and making it a condition) of almost everything like a switch (virtual or real, etc).

What is presently missing in the CS3 is the mean to understand the layout: which route leads from Block x to Block y and what each block occupancy is. Presently, on the CS3, the layout is simply a representation of articles (switches, signals,..) of a portion or whole of the layout. It does not check it

This is made by software like Rocrail and can drive trains without the need for stop sections (an archaic way of controlling trains)
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline trentschler  
#7 Posted : 18 May 2021 01:59:58(UTC)
trentschler

United States   
Joined: 10/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: PENNSYLVANIA, PHILADELPHIA
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mike, Hi everybody
There are certainly ways with the CS3 and its latest software to do programming ("Event") which include almost anything; loco commands including start, stop and sound, switch and uncoupler commands but also the new MACROS (IF, OR, AND, LOOP, BLOCK). So it is possible to create very interesting fully automatic train runs. There are indirect ways for the CS3 to sort of remember where it is by checking (and making it a condition) of almost everything like a switch (virtual or real, etc).

What is presently missing in the CS3 is the mean to understand the layout: which route leads from Block x to Block y and what each block occupancy is. Presently, on the CS3, the layout is simply a representation of articles (switches, signals,..) of a portion or whole of the layout. It does not check it

This is made by software like Rocrail and can drive trains without the need for stop sections (an archaic way of controlling trains)
Cheers
Jean


I've been working my way through Bob Fuller and Iain Morrison's iTrain tutorials on YouTube. They are very thorough and do a great job of presenting a very sophisticated piece of software. There is quite a bit of setup required so that iTrain knows the speeds of the various locomotives, and the layout must be described completely to the software, etc. But when you get all that done, you can, if you like, sit back and let iTrain run the trains and randomly select the routes. That's something I'd like to try.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by trentschler
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