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Offline Rwill  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2017 12:23:47(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 731
Location: England, London
Over Christmas,a little unscheduled cooking ( and totally stupid of me) of a 6021 leaving me with only one in stock. Starting to think (dream) of finally entering the 21st century with the purchase of CS3 or equivalent - note to bank manager I did say "thinking" and I reckon in the new year there may well be in the new items mega start sets including CS3 which usually represent quite good value for money.

So have done plenty of reading here and elsewhere and get totally frightened - I want to "play" trains not spend my life playing with CV's and have compared Marklin with ECOS and frankly quite often come in on the side of the ECOS.

However there is one factor I cant get my head round that of Mfx+ World of operation. I can read the most comprehensive (and frightening) sticky topic on the topic from our learned friend Clapcott. And clearly if I go ECOS then it is not available to me. I have a number of loks that include the mfx+ feature( which I guess I have paid for in the price of the lok) and on occasion the idea or world of operation appeals to me mainly the cab control view rather than sand and water etc. My one opportunity to see the thing in real life at the GM open day with an early CS3 on view - one of the things that wasn't working at that time was the world of operation. I tend to find rather negative comments or very few comments about world of operation - nobody waxes lyrical on the subject and say they wouldn't be without it. So is anyone gonna tell me how wonderful it is?
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2017 16:31:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,112
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
So is anyone gonna tell me how wonderful it is?
Driving a real steam loco is very complicated. I think MS Train Simulator gives a good impression how complicated it is.
Driving a steam loco with World of Operation is completely unrealistic.

World of Operation is a wonderful toy, wonderfully simple.

You can download the CS2 application for your PC and try the World of Operation with a simulated mfx+ loco - no risk of train collisions on your layout. Evaluate it as long as you like - and then decide if you need that on your layout too.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2017 19:39:31(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,898
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Over Christmas,a little unscheduled cooking ( and totally stupid of me) of a 6021 leaving me with only one in stock. Starting to think (dream) of finally entering the 21st century with the purchase of CS3 or equivalent - note to bank manager I did say "thinking" and I reckon in the new year there may well be in the new items mega start sets including CS3 which usually represent quite good value for money.


Only thing to remember about the mega start sets is they tend to be produced at the end of the year, in time for the Christmas present Market. Having said that Joes Modellbahn has had mega start sets which were originally issued with cs2 controllers where he sold those and put cs3 controllers in the start sets. I don't know if he still has nay of these.

Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post

So have done plenty of reading here and elsewhere and get totally frightened - I want to "play" trains not spend my life playing with CV's and have compared Marklin with ECOS and frankly quite often come in on the side of the ECOS.

However there is one factor I cant get my head round that of Mfx+ World of operation.


You don't have to use World of Operation, you can switch it off. There is an option box that pops up when you first register an mfx+ loco on the cs3 (although they don't appear to have a translation for the German text yet) which asks if you want to use it in basic mfx mode, or mfx+ mode. I can't remember the exact text (IIRC there is a picture of the pop-up somewhere in one of the cs3 threads) but entering the cancel option means it comes up in the mfx mode. Personally I can't be bothered with mfx+, but can see the possibility of it with youngsters.

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Offline Minok  
#4 Posted : 29 December 2017 06:49:38(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,208
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The mix+ world of operations features is tracking consumables and other features seem like a great enhancement for smaller layouts for sure as it adds a complexity dimension that doesn't require more space to implement. For those Bildung larger layouts and/or focusing on simulation of schedules and routing it's a complexity that may be too much plus we spend forever just getting the layout completed. I'll stick with dispatching service and crane trains when an incident occurs such as a derailment.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 30 December 2017 04:48:06(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,406
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
.... So is anyone gonna tell me how wonderful it is?


I would just say it is a novelty with potential.
The CS3 is behind what the CS2 used to offer, and it is unclear if the whole concept will be continued

I like the "concept" of enforcing aspect of locomotive driving
1) The Throttle is different from the brake
2) There are prerequisites required - e.g. Pantograph must be up or Pressure in the boiler.


Aspects that Marklin should have considered (I am not saying they didn't - they may have discarded the idea) are
1) - physical cab device addons - maybe via USB rather than SystemBus
- - Throttle, Brake, SIFA,
- - like Gamer mods or the Uhlenbrock Profi-Control
Profi-Control

2) - a more precise detection system
- - i.e. which train is at which refueling system
- - representation of signals - in view screen - to match the layout plan

3) - live (rather than animated) view out the window

... others


P.S. the CS3 has a significant bug where, in some circumstances, the change in configuration causes the screen to go blank (then come back) 6 times before going blank for good (Until a power off/on)
Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 30 December 2017 04:58:25(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,406
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
....
You don't have to use World of Operation, you can switch it off.

There is an option box that pops up when you first register an mfx+ loco on the cs3 (although they don't appear to have a translation for the German text yet) which asks if you want to use it in basic mfx mode, or mfx+ mode.


This refers to an aspect of a recent (last year) CS2 update, which was a stupid idea.
The reason was real, but the solution was just plain lazy.

There is (currently) no such annoying prompt on the CS3. What the CS3 does, that the CS2 didn't, is automatically set the consumption mode OFF when a decoder that was new to the CS3 was registered.

Further, The original 4 modes of operation are now managed as 3 modes.
The base mode "Without Consumption" will not show the resource graphs and will not pole the loco for an updated value

Currently the CS3 does not have a disable function for the CabView per-se. With any of the three modes you my swipe open the Cabview. If you do not want this view, then don't open it.


Also, A distinction is needed between ...
a) The Cab view of things
b) The Consumption of resources
It is possible to have the CabView without adding the stress of managing consumable resources.
Peter
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 30 December 2017 05:58:16(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,769
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
....Joes Modellbahn has had mega start sets which were originally issued with cs2 controllers where he sold those and put cs3 controllers in the start sets. I don't know if he still has any of these.


No, none shown in stock on his website, and none in the ebay store.

http://joes-modellbahnla...p;PageSize=36&Page=2
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#8 Posted : 30 December 2017 15:32:07(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 400
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
....Joes Modellbahn has had mega start sets which were originally issued with cs2 controllers where he sold those and put cs3 controllers in the start sets. I don't know if he still has any of these.


No, none shown in stock on his website, and none in the ebay store.

http://joes-modellbahnla...p;PageSize=36&Page=2


Joes doesn't have any 'repackaged' starter sets now. A few weeks ago (Nov. 25) he offered set 29741 with a CS3+, but must have sold out. Click on the set you like and choose the option for e-mail notification when he has stock. That's what I did and how I know he had 29741 available for a short time. I'm waiting for the modified 29548!

Cheers,

Harold.
Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 24 April 2021 00:55:14(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Ok, I like the feature. Got my first steam loco with mfx plus. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 24 April 2021 00:59:47(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,898
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, I like the feature. Got my first steam loco with mfx plus. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


I thought the world of operation booklet that comes with the loco tells you. I don't know off hand as i don't use the WoO.

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Offline marklinist5999  
#11 Posted : 24 April 2021 01:14:41(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, I like the feature. Got my first steam loco with mfx plus. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


I thought the world of operation booklet that comes with the loco tells you. I don't know off hand as i don't use the WoO.



Confused the booklet tells you to use the window, but thats all. It refers you to Marklin.de service/instructions where all the different cab drivers are, but the instructions are all identical to the booklet except the cab controls unique to model.
Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 24 April 2021 20:29:40(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, I like the feature. Got my first steam loco with mfx plus. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


I thought the world of operation booklet that comes with the loco tells you. I don't know off hand as i don't use the WoO.



Confused the booklet tells you to use the window, but thats all. It refers you to Marklin.de service/instructions where all the different cab drivers are, but the instructions are all identical to the booklet except the cab controls unique to model.


I emailed the Marklindudes. Curtis told me they don't know yet either, that Marklin software designers may be working to improve it. The gui is not custom sizeable either. Sometimes, icon buttons interfere with the red loco menu close buttons in the lower corners.
Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 25 April 2021 01:21:30(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,406
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


Your setup configuration is unclear, i.e. lacks details on the setup of both the loco AND the CS.
But you do not "click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by".

In the fist instance, if you have NO sensors defined as refuel stations, then the CS just offers a random parade of images in the animated window. i.e. they are just cosmetic

As to the the process to perform a refill, IF AVAILABLE, you click on the actual resource indicator (water guage, sand guage, coal level etc...
This will work in some WoO modes. If you have old software and have chosen professional, then the only means to initiate a refill is with the setup of resource sensors (usually mapped to track sensors, but you can initiate from te layout diagram)


Peter
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Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 25 April 2021 13:34:25(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


Your setup configuration is unclear, i.e. lacks details on the setup of both the loco AND the CS.
But you do not "click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by".

In the fist instance, if you have NO sensors defined as refuel stations, then the CS just offers a random parade of images in the animated window. i.e. they are just cosmetic

As to the the process to perform a refill, IF AVAILABLE, you click on the actual resource indicator (water guage, sand guage, coal level etc...
This will work in some WoO modes. If you have old software and have chosen professional, then the only means to initiate a refill is with the setup of resource sensors (usually mapped to track sensors, but you can initiate from te layout diagram)


CS3 set up with current updates and no automation. Loco. Set at factory settings and brand new. Professional operation not selected. Nothing mapped, nor moved. Much thanks, I shall try clicking gauges to replenish coal and water.
Instructions from M a bit hazy. Yesterday it kept up speed as long as coal was shoveled into the firebox even though both water sight glasses were empty.
Reversing wheel as well as lever for cylinder pressure regulate speed it seems, unless the reverse wheel is turned below halfway point.
Offline marklinist5999  
#15 Posted : 25 April 2021 14:53:37(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, it works. I didn't do anything different than beofre, except allow the sight glass levels to fully empty. How do you select "professional" mode please?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 25 April 2021 18:11:56(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,501
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, it works. I didn't do anything different than beofre, except allow the sight glass levels to fully empty. How do you select "professional" mode please?

Hi
You must first activate "edit" then select edit locos" (bottom red pull-up button)
Then select one of your locos and select SETUP

In the field operation mode select one of: without consumption, with consumption, maintenance facility
cs3_screenshot_2021_04_25_16_06_57.png
ATTENTION: in the mode with consumption you run the risk when a consumable is depleted (water, coal sand) that the loco crawls at very slow speed until you refill all consumables
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline marklinist5999  
#17 Posted : 25 April 2021 20:40:56(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Thank you Johinjean B.! I forgot if that's in the short tutorial or not. I am awaiting my copy of the complete cs3 use book.
Offline marklinist5999  
#18 Posted : 26 April 2021 22:19:37(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, I like the feature. Got my first steam loco with mfx plus. I'm not able to get the cab window maintanance request when they pass by the window though. I click on both the water fill tower, and the coaling facility when they pass by. How do you do it?


I thought the world of operation booklet that comes with the loco tells you. I don't know off hand as i don't use the WoO.

you select the maintainance facility, or fuel, coal, or water use quanity, or with neither on the loco edit page under settings. The booklet included doesn't tell you.

Offline marklinist5999  
#19 Posted : 28 April 2021 17:06:59(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Seems I recal the w.o.o. screen being able to be returned to regualar operation by dragging it towards the sides. Mine is no longer doing it. I have to close the loco controller, and shut down the CS3 and restart before it returns to regualr. I have modified the standard parameters by editing my locs. with consumption. Could that be why, or am I mistaken that the screen ever returned to normal mode?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#20 Posted : 28 April 2021 17:34:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,501
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Here is a small video on how to drive any loco using the world of operation (WOO)
1 select edit loco
2 change the loco status from without WOO to a selected driver seat
3 validate
4 assign the loco to the left control
5 swipe the left red loco symbol, all the way to the right. Then the selected driver seat is displayed
6 to leave the driver seat, touch the red loco icon on the right and slide it all the way to the left

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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