Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline luckas  
#1 Posted : 06 April 2021 12:55:52(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: ,
Hello friends,

I'm in the process of [finally] upgrading from 6021 to a CS3. While waiting for its arrival, I'm reading up on a few things and am a little confused about the differences between MM, Mfx and DCC. In particular, if I'm manually adding an 'older' Marklin digital lok, do I choose MM? If so, what is a DCC lok?

Thanks,

Paul

Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 06 April 2021 14:22:12(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
MM or MM2 is the old format (Marklin Motorola). Up to 5 additional functions with fx decoders. MFX is automatic feedback to controller recognition. DCC is 2 rail 12 volt dc current Digital like Trix, ESU, Roco, Piko, etc., and N scale trains.
Unlike an ESU ecos, or a Roco Z21, the CS3 doesn't recognize rail com data used by Zimo decoders, etc.As those are mfx compatible, but you must often manually enter in a model. You can run a Roco 3 rail model on a CS3, but must manually enter it as well. Same for Piko, etc. The mfx+ models have world of operations cab driving function available and are great fun and skill.
Download the PDF file of the Marklin CS3 short tutorial. The unit does not include a detailed manual. It would be too large. I just got mine a few months ago. It was easier installing locomotives manually than with a MS2. It's similar to a smartphone. Ok, checkmark, cancel buttons.
Don't get nervous, learn, have fun, and ask questions here, and watch the Digital club webinars on YouTube.
They air second Wednesday of every month. All are still there. You can also email Curtis and Rick the hosts.
They are the Marklin dudes.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 06 April 2021 14:40:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,915
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
Hello friends,

I'm in the process of [finally] upgrading from 6021 to a CS3. While waiting for its arrival, I'm reading up on a few things and am a little confused about the differences between MM, Mfx and DCC. In particular, if I'm manually adding an 'older' Marklin digital lok, do I choose MM? If so, what is a DCC lok?

Thanks,

Paul



When adding an older Marklin loco the easiest way is to seelct it from the cs3 internal database - if the loco was a factory issue digital or delta one. The data base includes all the details about what functions that catalogue number had and what the default address for the loco should be.

If the loco was not originally digital or delta but later fitted with a decoder then the process is a little more complicated, but still do-able.

It will be worth your while getting a copy of the new book for the cs3 which has just been released. My copy is on its way to me now.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Goofy  
#4 Posted : 06 April 2021 19:27:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,401
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
DCC is 2 rail 12 volt dc current Digital like Trix, ESU, Roco, Piko, etc., and N scale trains.



No!
DCC are Digital Command Control.
Not 12 volt dc current.
DCC can also be use with the three rail system.

thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 06 April 2021 19:34:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,401
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post

Unlike an ESU ecos, or a Roco Z21, the CS3 doesn't recognize rail com data used by Zimo decoders, etc.As those are mfx compatible, but you must often manually enter in a model. You can run a Roco 3 rail model on a CS3, but must manually enter it as well. Same for Piko, etc.


Zimo MS sound decoder, ESU Loksound 5 and Piko 4.1 do have mfx protocol in the sound decoder and can also recognize automatic in the CS3.
Even Trix digital locomotive do have mfx protocol.
No need to enter manually.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 06 April 2021 19:52:31(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,090
Location: Scotland
Newer PIko locos do have Mfx registration. As Alan says the Marklin book on the CS3 is well worth getting and does give good information.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 06 April 2021 20:01:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,401
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Newer PIko locos do have Mfx registration.


Piko ac digital locomotive with the sound do have mfx protocol.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 07 April 2021 01:43:39(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
It will be worth your while getting a copy of the new book for the cs3 which has just been released. My copy is on its way to me now.


I just ordered one a couple hours earlier. I've been waiting for them to be in stock.
Offline phils2um  
#9 Posted : 07 April 2021 07:33:42(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
DCC is 2 rail 12 volt dc current Digital like Trix, ESU, Roco, Piko, etc., and N scale trains.


As Goofy said - NO - Not correct! DCC stands for Digital Command Control. Its got nothing to do with voltage, AC or DC.

DCC is a digital protocol just like mfx and MM(2) are digital protocols. All of them are based on encoding a square wave signal. Also, they can co-exist and operate (for the most part) on the same track. For instance, I'm doing large scale in the garden. My locos (mostly LGB) are a mix of both DCC and mfx. My CS3 is set to function with both DCC and mfx protocols. I have the MM protocol turned off because I don't have any locos equipped with decoders that are exclusively MM protocol. The voltage you use, 12, 15, 19, 22, or 24 volts, has nothing to do with the digital protocol. It is more typically determined by what your locos are designed to accommodate. Although, most newer decoders, be they DCC, mfx, or multi-protocol, can now handle booster (track) voltages of up to 24 volts without difficulty. Some early decoders may have problems if multiple protocols are on the rails. That is the reason Märklin recommends un-needed protocols be turned off.
Phil S.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by phils2um
Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 07 April 2021 09:55:40(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, I meant that most dcc users run 2 rail. Lenz, Digit tax, etc. Were developed for 2 rail, which at the beginning of the Digital era 12 volts d.c. Today the newest decoders are multiplexed for all 3 protocalls.
My understanding is though that controllers are not for every function. I was told right on this forum that a Roco model with Z21 cab driver function can not be accessed on a CS3.
Thusly, a mfx+ world of operations model feature does not work on a Z21 system? ESU ecos?
ESUs ecos has an ecosniffer. One can also be bought separately. So what does it do exactly?
Offline luckas  
#11 Posted : 07 April 2021 11:28:37(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: ,
So just to clarify, older Marklin Digital loks (ie, non-Mfx locomotives) are MM? There is no such thing as a Marklin DCC lok?

Paul
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 07 April 2021 12:05:49(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,778
Location: New Zealand
Yes, earlier Marklin locos will be MM. But no, there very definitely is such a thing as a Marklin DCC loco as most if not all Marklin locos issued in the last 5 years also have DCC enabled as well as MM and mFX.

I'm sure Tom (H0) will give us the exact details.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
H0
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2021 16:23:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,121
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I meant that most dcc users run 2 rail. Lenz, Digit tax, etc. Were developed for 2 rail, which at the beginning of the Digital era 12 volts d.c.
Complete BS.
DCC was developed for Märklin 1 gauge. Earlier MM was developed for Märklin H0, but MM was useless for two-rail, so they had to get something completely new for 1 gauge. Not really cost-efficient.

Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
There is no such thing as a Marklin DCC lok?
Older Märklin H0 locos are MM, later mfx, nowadays also DCC.
Older Märklin 1 gauge locos are DCC, later also MM, nowadays also mfx.

As noted before, DCC stands for Digital Command Control. Some people use DCC in a general way.
NMRA DCC is a digital protocol, like the other protocols MM, mfx, SX, and some others.
I use DCC only to refer to NMRA DCC.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline luckas  
#14 Posted : 07 April 2021 16:40:11(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: ,
So if adding a new Marklin digital lok that has both MM and DCC, is there any benefit to choosing one over the other (if that is even an option)?

Paul
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 07 April 2021 16:54:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,121
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
So if adding a new Marklin digital lok that has both MM and DCC, is there any benefit to choosing one over the other (if that is even an option)?
mfx has priority and will be used by default.
DCC can only be used if you disable mfx - either in the decoder or in the controller.

If you encounter mfx problems and become annoyed, then you can still switch over to DCC.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline marklinist5999  
#16 Posted : 07 April 2021 17:50:20(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
So if adding a new Marklin digital lok that has both MM and DCC, is there any benefit to choosing one over the other (if that is even an option)?

Paul
I think you have to enter the decoder type before the address, but I foget already. It's been 2 1/2 mos. since I did it. Ether that, or when you enter the locs. item number, it knows the decoder type. The edit page prompts you along. If you goof, you can delete and start over.

Offline applor  
#17 Posted : 08 April 2021 01:39:46(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,606
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
So if adding a new Marklin digital lok that has both MM and DCC, is there any benefit to choosing one over the other (if that is even an option)?

Paul


If it only supports those 2 protocols and not MFX (such as ESU loksound/lokpilot decoders non M4/MFX version) then you should always use DCC as it supports 128 speed steps and 32 functions. MM only supports 27 speed steps and 4 functions.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by applor
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 08 April 2021 13:20:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,121
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
MM only supports 27 speed steps and 4 functions.
MM only supports 14 speed steps and 5 functions.
ESU implemented 28 speed steps for MM protocol. The CS1 is the only Märklin controller that supports 28 speed steps. I don't know if any decoders beside ESU support these 28 speed steps.

So if the choice is between MM and DCC, then DCC usually is the better option.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline marklinist5999  
#19 Posted : 08 April 2021 13:34:40(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
Guy at Ajckids recommends setting the M83 and M 84 decoders on dcc. I forget why but he explains why on YouTube. I think the dcc setting gives more possible addresses and does not affect mfx operation.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 08 April 2021 17:54:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,915
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
MM only supports 27 speed steps and 4 functions.
MM only supports 14 speed steps and 5 functions.


The last of the 6090x decoders also supported the 'half steps', you got the intermediate step value by going one step faster then immediately backing off one step. The decoder then used a speed midway between the two speed steps. IIRC this is what Marklin call 27 step mode, as distinct to the ESU 28 steps. The 'hald step' mode wasn't widely advertised, but is demonstrable when using the 49960 speed measurement car (and I would expect any other speed measurement car as well).


thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
bphH0
Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 08 April 2021 18:58:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,401
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Guy at Ajckids recommends setting the M83 and M 84 decoders on dcc. I forget why but he explains why on YouTube. I think the dcc setting gives more possible addresses and does not affect mfx operation.


You can set DCC protocol in the m83 and m84, but also use mfx search article and no need to use manually enter.
I wish this could be done same way with the locomotives by use DCC and search mfx.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 09 April 2021 16:54:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,121
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The last of the 6090x decoders also supported the 'half steps'
That's a "decoder trick", but the MM protocol still only supports 14 speed steps. The ESU "MM 28" mode is a "protocol trick".
Early Märklin mfx locos support "MM 28" (ESU decoders) while later ones support "MM 27" (Märklin decoders).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline clapcott  
#23 Posted : 12 April 2021 07:47:49(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,413
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Guy at Ajckids recommends setting the M83 and M 84 decoders on dcc. I forget why but he explains why on YouTube. I think the dcc setting gives more possible addresses and does not affect mfx operation.

Please remove this comment

Aside from being off topic, it is wrong/incomplete/unsubstantiated on too many levels to cover here

Peter
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.726 seconds.