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Offline fje  
#1 Posted : 08 March 2021 21:33:31(UTC)
fje

Spain   
Joined: 14/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Madrid
Hi, looking at the ZIMO MX documentation it seems that some of them can be used directly with the Universal AC Motor of Märklin, BUT looking at the picture/diagram is in page 53 of the English manual, there are only two cables from the decoder to the AC motor. There are also a couple of diodes connected, that I understand it use, but what I cannot see is how to full connect the motor to the decoder.

Märklin 60906 uses three cables; two from decoder to the coil, the common of the coils goes to one of the brushes and the third from the decoder to the other brush.

But ZIMO decoder only has two cables to the motor. How can they be connected to the motor? Which ones go to the coil and which ones to the brushes? Or how should they be connected?

Thanks for your help.

P.S.: New MSs decoders also support Mfx, hope not too late the MX series will support also it, anyone has any news on it?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 09 March 2021 08:01:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: fje Go to Quoted Post
Hi, looking at the ZIMO MX documentation it seems that some of them can be used directly with the Universal AC Motor of Märklin
You can do that with any modern decoder as long as load regulation can be turned off.
Even with the best decoder you will get a loco that runs like an old Delta loco. Are you sure you really want to do it?
I know I would not be happy with that solution.
ESU documented this method for early LokSound decoders, but gave it up soon.

I didn't check the Zimo manual, page 53, yet. I will if you really want to do it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline fje  
#3 Posted : 09 March 2021 16:40:05(UTC)
fje

Spain   
Joined: 14/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Madrid
Hi, Tom, thanks for your answer.

My problem is that some times the magnet estator doesn't fit correctly, for instance, my Märklin 3005 had that problem, and finally, the better (but not the best) solution I found was to use the Märklin 60906 maintaining the coil estator. Why "not the best"?, because with the coil motor, the PWM frequency for controlling the motor has to be very low, implying worse noise and not good control at low speed.

So, I'd like to test the ZIMO decoder that also said could work with the original AC (with coil estator) motor.

Could you give to me any reference to the ESU documentation you referenced to?

Best regards.

Javier
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 09 March 2021 17:06:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fje Go to Quoted Post
Hi, looking at the ZIMO MX documentation it seems that some of them can be used directly with the Universal AC Motor of Märklin, BUT looking at the picture/diagram is in page 53 of the English manual, there are only two cables from the decoder to the AC motor.
The small circles in the diagram mark the motor connection. IMHO the instructions are quite good and easy to understand.
The grey wire goes to the brush plate. The two wires from the field coil go to the orange wire via two anti-parallel diodes.

The German ESU LokSound 2 manual shows how to do it without diodes, see file "00400_LS2_DE_Betriebsanleitung_V10.pdf" under "Einbau- und Betriebsanleitung für LokSound2" and go to page 7:
http://www.esu.eu/downlo...ungen/fruehere-produkte/
They use three chokes.
By using three wires there is no need for diodes.

Which stators do not fit? You can use HAMO magnets if the motor kits 60943/60944 do not fit without modifications.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline fje  
#5 Posted : 09 March 2021 20:04:11(UTC)
fje

Spain   
Joined: 14/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Madrid
Hi, Tom, thanks again. I understand it now....

My problem was that the back squares after the diodes ARE the coils and I was feeling that they were a couple of inductances... :(

I see it now, one of the ZIMO decoder wire goes thru diodes to each of the coils, the common wire from the coils goes to one brush and the other decoder wire goes to the other brush, very similar to the 60906. And, you are right, it is very clear "Field coils" and "Rotor", but I didn't see it. Appologies.

Coming back to my 3005, I was trying the ESU magnet stator 51961, that, in theory is equal to Märklin 220450 and it is the substitution of 204900 and for an SFCM motor, everything seemed to be OK, BUT it doesn't fit in the locomotive structure (don't know what english/german word to use for it)

Thanks again and kind regards

Javier

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