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Offline oranda  
#1 Posted : 09 January 2021 17:05:24(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: ENGLAND
I was given a 2nd-hand BR 89 010 steam loco for Christmas, which I would like to upgrade by giving it a new (and hopefully improved) motor.

So far from what I've found out it is a delta decoder 29145 starter lok - M5028216 Märklin H0 30000 Tenderlokomotive BR89.010 Delta Digital System

Can someone suggest what new motor with decoder (kit) I can use to bring this very noisy locomotive uptodate for the digital world.

Thanks

Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 09 January 2021 23:21:36(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,711
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
I was given a 2nd-hand BR 89 010 steam loco for Christmas, which I would like to upgrade by giving it a new (and hopefully improved) motor.

So far from what I've found out it is a delta decoder 29145 starter lok - M5028216 Märklin H0 30000 Tenderlokomotive BR89.010 Delta Digital System

Can someone suggest what new motor with decoder (kit) I can use to bring this very noisy locomotive uptodate for the digital world.

Thanks



Hi Peter
The Marklin page for 29145 doesn't have a manual, but the 30000 page does. It shows a drum commutator motor which will be the same as any upgrade kit that is available and it will be using an fx decoder similar to the 60960. I'm not sure that attempting an upgrade will do very much for you.

Regards
Alan

P.S. your other decoder is now working, I'll get it back to you.
Offline oranda  
#3 Posted : 10 January 2021 13:14:19(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: ENGLAND
Hi Alan

I was hoping a motor change might make the 89 010 as quiet as my other locos. From what you wrote, I don't think I'll bother now. Great new about the other decoder, I hope you've had some time to try it out.

Regards

Pete
Offline rrf  
#4 Posted : 10 January 2021 14:00:38(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

I recently watched a video of someone upgrading a BR 89 / 3000. They upgraded it to a 5-pole motor and added what I believe was an MFX decoder. They then compared the the upgraded 3000 side by side with an analog 3000. The 5-pole motor and decoder provided significant improvement in the lok's low speed running characteristics, as well as made it much quieter.

Based upon this demonstration, I am thinking of choosing one of my younger and less sentimental BR 89s as my first digital upgrade experience. When (hopefully not if) my 3371 ICE Experimental finally escapes from Flughafen Frankfurt, it will need what appears to be a rather complex digital upgrade and I do not want it to be my first "learning experience" Wink
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 10 January 2021 14:14:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,711
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

I recently watched a video of someone upgrading a BR 89 / 3000. They upgraded it to a 5-pole motor and added what I believe was an MFX decoder. They then compared the the upgraded 3000 side by side with an analog 3000. The 5-pole motor and decoder provided significant improvement in the lok's low speed running characteristics, as well as made it much quieter.


I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.

I do also have a couple of the 3000 series locos, one from a 2945 start set which has a Delta decoder, and the one I got recently from a CM series start set. I am pondering getting 60906 decoders for both, which would give them mfx recognition, while keeping the original drive train.

Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 10 January 2021 17:15:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,019
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.
Märklin made at least two versions of the #30000: 89 010 with three-pole AC/DC motor (the one we're talking about) and 89 009 with five-pole DC motor.
The former loco is a candidate for a 60941 motor upgrade.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 10 January 2021 20:07:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,711
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.
Märklin made at least two versions of the #30000: 89 010 with three-pole AC/DC motor (the one we're talking about) and 89 009 with five-pole DC motor.
The former loco is a candidate for a 60941 motor upgrade.



Ah, OK, then maybe Pete does have an upgrade path.
Offline oranda  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2021 16:13:17(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: ENGLAND
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.
Märklin made at least two versions of the #30000: 89 010 with three-pole AC/DC motor (the one we're talking about) and 89 009 with five-pole DC motor.
The former loco is a candidate for a 60941 motor upgrade.



Ah, OK, then maybe Pete does have an upgrade path.


I'll certainly look into this :-) I need another little project for these Covid days.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 11 January 2021 19:39:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,711
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.
Märklin made at least two versions of the #30000: 89 010 with three-pole AC/DC motor (the one we're talking about) and 89 009 with five-pole DC motor.
The former loco is a candidate for a 60941 motor upgrade.



Ah, OK, then maybe Pete does have an upgrade path.


I'll certainly look into this :-) I need another little project for these Covid days.



Sending a PM.

Alan
Offline oranda  
#10 Posted : 12 January 2021 10:20:40(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: ENGLAND
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I believe Petes loco already has a 5 pole motor as it appears to be a derivative of the much more recent 30000 version of the 3000.
Märklin made at least two versions of the #30000: 89 010 with three-pole AC/DC motor (the one we're talking about) and 89 009 with five-pole DC motor.
The former loco is a candidate for a 60941 motor upgrade.



Ah, OK, then maybe Pete does have an upgrade path.


I'll certainly look into this :-) I need another little project for these Covid days.



Sending a PM.

Alan


H0 - I opened the BR 89 010 this morning and it has a 3 pole motor - thanks
Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 12 January 2021 11:46:41(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 277
Sb modellbau may have a option for you in this listing:https://sb-modellbau.com/details/H0-engine-set-for-Maerklin-BR-89-old
Don't know anything about it but, but it seems to require milling. They dont list the motor brand, but Makrlin locomotives with factory fitted Faulhaber and Maxon motors runs really nice. my favorite is the br 18.1 with Faulhaber.

Otherwise the option kiwiAlan is considering with 60906, have some nice advantages. but downside is noise, slightly higher power consumption and no motor regulation.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
H0
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 12 January 2021 12:00:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,019
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Otherwise the option kiwiAlan is considering with 60906, have some nice advantages. but downside is noise, slightly higher power consumption and no motor regulation.
The 60906 would be no option for me. The 60760 would be an option for me - a simple decoder, but it does its job.
A motor from SB Modellbau for a #30000 would be too expensive for me. The loco is a "must have" for Märklin collectors, but it still is a very basic entry model.

But if you want the smoothest #30000 in the world, then even SB could be an option.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Rwill  
#13 Posted : 12 January 2021 13:49:53(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 715
Location: England, London
Now this kind of topic mystifies me every time it come up.

Notwithstanding that you have a lok given as a present - one presumes it kinda works but maybe not the smoothest, quietest lok on earth.

You may or maybe not technically and practically competent.

Getting things from Germany is not quite resolved yet re Customs etc - the Eu seems to find confiscating ham sandwiches from truck drivers more important than dealing with commercial issues that will keep their businesses going!

A brand new 30000 from MSL will cost 69 Euros which will give you a MFX brand new lok with warranty etc

Decoder's mentioned will cost 40 Euros and maybe a bit fiddly to fit into a small space and you will end up with the same level of "function".

Everyone has a 3000 or 30000 and it usually stays as "favourite" lok even when loks costing hundreds of Euros are added. Mine (£25 from eBay) is always the trial lok for new sections to the layout, attends all incidents and is used to teach young visitors the basics of operation. And if it ceases to work I shall order a new one
Offline oranda  
#14 Posted : 12 January 2021 14:19:13(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: ENGLAND
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Now this kind of topic mystifies me every time it come up.

Notwithstanding that you have a lok given as a present - one presumes it kinda works but maybe not the smoothest, quietest lok on earth.

You may or maybe not technically and practically competent.

Getting things from Germany is not quite resolved yet re Customs etc - the Eu seems to find confiscating ham sandwiches from truck drivers more important than dealing with commercial issues that will keep their businesses going!

A brand new 30000 from MSL will cost 69 Euros which will give you a MFX brand new lok with warranty etc

Decoder's mentioned will cost 40 Euros and maybe a bit fiddly to fit into a small space and you will end up with the same level of "function".

Everyone has a 3000 or 30000 and it usually stays as "favourite" lok even when loks costing hundreds of Euros are added. Mine (£25 from eBay) is always the trial lok for new sections to the layout, attends all incidents and is used to teach young visitors the basics of operation. And if it ceases to work I shall order a new one


I appreciate your response. I have also considered buying a new mfx based br 89, and I may still go this route, however as most years I get a loco from Germany as a Xmas present from my uncle who is running a tinplate and 70'80's analogue system, I am attracted to the DIY aspect of conversion. This loco only needs a better motor, to improve its smoother running at low speeds and I hope reduce noise. I'm in no hurry so waiting for UK/EU customs to sort things out is no real problem.

The increased functionality of a MFX loco is a real consideration, so thanks for bringing that to my attention,
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 12 January 2021 14:21:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,019
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
A brand new 30000 from MSL will cost 69 Euros which will give you a MFX brand new lok with warranty etc
The new #30000 has road number 89 009, the old one has 89 010. Why not buy both?
The new one has one axle powered by cog wheels, the older 89 010 may still have three axles powered by cog wheels.

A 60760 comes with warranty for only 35 Euros - OK, it comes without mfx.

Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
The increased functionality of a MFX loco is a real consideration
Not many improvements through mfx in this case IMHO.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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