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Offline Uwe  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2020 01:13:26(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Hello all: is automatic block control possible only with the s88 (and/or l88) feedback decoder and a CS3? Can one set up automatic block control with the Mobile Station 2 and some other decoder, if not the s88? Thanks!!
Offline Donb  
#2 Posted : 16 December 2020 02:28:20(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 288
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi,

In Marklin Digital Club newsletter Vol 31, issue 2 and 3 (2019) Curtis and Rick discuss setting this up with a M84 and a MS2.
happy reading!

Cheers,
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
Offline Normmeister  
#3 Posted : 16 December 2020 10:26:22(UTC)
Normmeister


Joined: 15/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: Australia
Question: I see automatic block control can be done with the CS3 and other Marklin controller set ups; is it able to be done with an Ecos ?

Norm.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 16 December 2020 10:33:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Normmeister Go to Quoted Post
Question: I see automatic block control can be done with the CS3 and other Marklin controller set ups; is it able to be done with an Ecos?
Since the ECoS supports RailCom, you can do it even better with an ECoS if your decoders support RailCom. RailCom feedback allows to tell freight trains from passenger trains from express trains and trigger different actions.
Block control using the ECoS can also be done without RailCom using s88 feedback.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline danmarklinman  
#5 Posted : 16 December 2020 16:40:26(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Hi, why don’t you use Marklin 72442 braking module? I use mine without the use of any digital extras and control the speed of my trains with a ms2. Follow the instructions and you have an automatic block system in conjunction with Marklin contact tracks. I use two to control a passing loop. To stop and restart trains. I’ve incorporated signals into it which are made from kits to match Belgium prototype. But you can of course use Marklin signals plugged straight into the braking module 👍
See here for a little film of the trains in action
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline Normmeister  
#6 Posted : 17 December 2020 03:41:56(UTC)
Normmeister


Joined: 15/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: Australia
I should give some more detail of what I am trying to do.

In my impatience to get my layout going, I laid all the track (K and C) including lots of contact track sections. In my hurry I skipped any thought of signals or auto block control. Now I want to go that next step.

I have lots of contact tracks, with S88 connections. I decided recently to utilise Railcom with my Ecos, to display actual train ID in sidings used for parking trains. This meant I had to additionally use ESU Railcom detectors connected to those storage sidings, and this loco ID display now works well.

(Most of my locos have ESU decoders so of course have Railcom. Those Marklin locos that have Mfx decoders, I have added a Railcom transmitter into each).

However, to install Railcom ID detection I had to pull up the relevant tracks and add insulators to allow current detection for Railcom instead of the S88 contact track method. A lot of work.

So, while I understand use of the Marklin braking module as a method of auto block control, I was hoping there might be some method of doing such control without pulling up more track to install the physical barriers required in the tracks. I was talking to a friend recently about the layout he is constructing, and he seemed to think that the CS3 could do this control by a script having been written into it which did the loco control by control instruction rather than by interruption of the track power in the way that the braking module does, because if there was some way of also doing that with the Ecos it would save me pulling up track.

But the above assertion of what the CS3 can do, I suspect is actually wrong, and the only way such a process can be done is to use a computer control program such as RR&Co, and that the CS3 actually does the control by instructing activation of braking modules.

This is why I asked my original question on this thread.

I suspect I have to do a lot of track pulling up ! Angry

Norm
Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 17 December 2020 05:18:25(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
or just run software to do it...
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Normmeister  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2020 05:43:37(UTC)
Normmeister


Joined: 15/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: Australia
Dale wrote: "or just run software to do it... "

yeah yeah Huh . So one has to start up the computer, log it in, and every time you want to put a different train onto the layout, one has to adjust the software programming ! Blink

I don't want to be a computer programmer, I just want to be able to put any of my many trains on the track, select the address, and off we go.

Dale I am just poking fun, not having a shot at you, I stand in awe of the astonishing things you are doing with your software, and the sign system, and the etc etc.

But ...…. every time I attend a running session at one of my many friends places where they are running RR&Co, after a short time we all stand around while the operator tries to figure out why the program is playing up and trains won't run. And insert a different train ? Too hard !

Laugh

regards
Norm.
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Offline Ross  
#9 Posted : 17 December 2020 07:06:53(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Norm,

I recommend minimum hardware (costly to upgrade) and a good software package which is easy to upgrade and and not that expensive.

If you have friends that use TC and things go wrong then they are still in a learning curve. Adding users trains is easy once you know how.



Ross
Offline Ross  
#10 Posted : 17 December 2020 07:12:58(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Uwe,

Using the CS3 with m84's ,s88 allows you to have simple train operation but the process of creating events isn't as easy as using a good software package.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Originally Posted by: Uwe Go to Quoted Post
Hello all: is automatic block control possible only with the s88 (and/or l88) feedback decoder and a CS3? Can one set up automatic block control with the Mobile Station 2 and some other decoder, if not the s88? Thanks!!


Ross
Offline PeFu  
#11 Posted : 17 December 2020 07:38:00(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Originally Posted by: Normmeister Go to Quoted Post
Dale wrote: "or just run software to do it... "

yeah yeah Huh . So one has to start up the computer, log it in, and every time you want to put a different train onto the layout, one has to adjust the software programming ! Blink


The procedure for powering-up my SSD harddrive PC is always much faster than booting up my CS2. And adding a new train is just drag-and-drop?

Cool

Originally Posted by: Normmeister Go to Quoted Post

I have lots of contact tracks, with S88 connections.

...

Originally Posted by: Normmeister Go to Quoted Post

But the above assertion of what the CS3 can do, I suspect is actually wrong, and the only way such a process can be done is to use a computer control program such as RR&Co, and that the CS3 actually does the control by instructing activation of braking modules.


Using a (commercial) PC software, you don’t need separate physical braking modules or do any programming in the digital central. You define blocks and contact tracks in your PC software, and can even set individual deceleretion speed for different blocks. I only use my CS2 as a PC interface to the layout, and for setting decoder parameters that cannot be set by the ESU Lokprogrammer. As you also indicate you have a lot of contact tracks, I can assure you, once you go PC you will never go back...

BigGrin
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline hxmiesa  
#12 Posted : 17 December 2020 08:39:53(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
@Uwe, depending on what you want to do, and the size of your layout etc, you CAN stop and start trains, as long as you have relays or signals to cut the power to a stop-section of the track. This is no different than what people did in the old analog days.
With a CS3 (not MS2!), you can create events that change these relays/signals when an S88 point is activated. (You can even connect your track-detections points directly to the solenoid devices, thus bypassing the S88 system completly)

But it will not be "nice" to watch in the long run, as trains will stop abruptly on the power-less sections.
You can then throw even more electronics and money at the subject, installing "braking modules" etc.
THIS will give you a nicely running train layout, and no fiddling about with the controller when adding a new train, except for defining its address.

BUT in the end, the complete software control is the only way to do it perfectly right. (and opens the posibility to do SO many other things). You even save on cutting and isolating track-sections, and there is no need to spend money on electronic brake-modules. (Decorative signals -now for show only- can also be of another brand than the obscenely expensive Märklin ones...)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Johnvr  
#13 Posted : 17 December 2020 15:30:16(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Normmeister Go to Quoted Post


I was talking to a friend recently about the layout he is constructing, and he seemed to think that the CS3 could do this control by a script having been written into it which did the loco control by control instruction rather than by interruption of the track power in the way that the braking module does, because if there was some way of also doing that with the Ecos it would save me pulling up track.



The CS2/CS3 can record and play back an event script, which is able to switch signals, turnouts, other accessories as well as set locomotive functions and locomotive speed control, such as lights, sound, smoke, braking, acceleration, etc all triggered by an input sensor such as s88.

The ECOS can do most of the same as above also triggered by the s88 (NOTE : the old Marklin 6088, not the newer ones)
EXCEPT THAT the ECOS cannot set locomotive functions and locomotive speed in the event script as I know it.
It may be possible to do this using ECOS hardware and software and Railcom, etc, but I do not know how to do it in this system.

RegardsBigGrin
John

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Offline DaleSchultz  
#14 Posted : 17 December 2020 18:01:34(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
CS2/CS3/EcOS devices are all running software. No matter how you look at it, it is software.

What differs is the quality, complexity, sophistication and usability of the software.

Different devices take different times to start up. Some of my devices are up and running within a second. Others may take some minutes.

I leave my layout Windows PC running, and when I do have to boot it up (after a power failure) I have it set so I don't have to log in.

I think people should base their assessment of software on how well they can run it themselves rather than how other people can, or cannot, run it.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 18 December 2020 12:43:50(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
CS3 and S88 will do most things you need. You can of course enjoy driving trains yourself or just make it a software hobby.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Uwe  
#16 Posted : 22 December 2020 20:26:35(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Thanks to all. Good stuff!!

Merry Christmas,

Uwe
Offline orionstars  
#17 Posted : 22 December 2020 22:29:38(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
Boy oh boy......

This post has instantly pointed out how uch I need to learn about digital in general. Just when I thought I might be getting the hang of it for the basics...

I'm going to reread this and possibly start asking more questions!
Offline Uwe  
#18 Posted : 22 December 2020 23:38:05(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Donb's advice about the Märklin Digital Club newsletter was spot-on. I signed up and they sent me back issues to 2017. It comes out every second month and best of all it's free.
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Offline PeFu  
#19 Posted : 23 December 2020 05:05:34(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
CS3 and S88 will do most things you need. You can of course enjoy driving trains yourself or just make it a software hobby.


Why compromise? Cool

Using a good software package, you have some virtual friends running a few trains, and you can run one (or more) by yourself.

ThumpUp

And in addition you can invite real friends including kids (of any age BigGrin ) and dare to let them run trains by themselves (using e.g. their smartphones), having the software as Safety Management System preventing catastrophies out there.

ThumpUp ThumpUp

I believe software can provide new dimensions to the layout that even can expand the hobby in the future...

Smile

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline ronnythiesen  
#20 Posted : 27 December 2020 11:28:50(UTC)
ronnythiesen

Denmark   
Joined: 08/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Hovedstaden, Hasle
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Hi, why don’t you use Marklin 72442 braking module? I use mine without the use of any digital extras and control the speed of my trains with a ms2. Follow the instructions and you have an automatic block system in conjunction with Marklin contact tracks. I use two to control a passing loop. To stop and restart trains. I’ve incorporated signals into it which are made from kits to match Belgium prototype. But you can of course use Marklin signals plugged straight into the braking module 👍
See here for a little film of the trains in action



Can You show us a diagram off this layout for inspiration, how to setup on MS2

Best Regards
Ronny Ingolf Thiesen
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