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Offline Harvey  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2020 17:58:27(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Looking for suggestions on lights to install that would light up my partially covered helix.

I want to light up the partially enclosed helix when a train enters the top or bottom section. I would connect this to the M84. This would allow me to see the train climb the helix. The ceiling of the helix is my amusement park and two sides are mountain scenes and so I can place lights underneath this. Or I can place lights at the bottom or sides. A flood light(s) seems best. I don't see this in the Marklin catalogue. I would run the lights off of my auxillary power loop wire, powered by the standard marklin power pack.

Thanks for suggestions.

Harvey
Offline French_Fabrice  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2020 19:06:28(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,324
Location: Lyon, France
Offline Harvey  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2020 20:37:08(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Fabrice

Thanks for the quick response. I'll look into these as a start.

Harvey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2020 23:07:20(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
I think there are two parts to your project:

1) what physical lights to install
Many of us used the rope lights that plug into 120V to light hidden areas of the layout
These days LED strips are also readily available along with various power supply solutions.

2) How to switch it when a train comes in.
This may depend on what you select for the lighting - is it 120V AC or is 12V D, etc.
It could be a physical switch that you flip, or a relay triggered by your train or layout software. (If you are talking M84 then it sounds like you have a digital system and that could be used for a 12V system.)

My guess is that you will end up using 12V LED strip, switched by an M84. Just check that the Amps the M84 can handle exceeds the Amps that your LED strip will use - probably about 125mA per foot of LED strip. (assuming a 16' roll uses 2A)
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Harvey  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2020 03:39:48(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Thanks for the suggestion of strip LEDs.

Not having an electrical background, I do have some follow-up questions. I have a 60055 transformer (powers the CS2) and 2 60175 boosters powered by 60065 transformers. I user a separate power source for Freight, Passenger and Auxiliary items. Auxiliary items include signals, turnouts (operated by M83), M84 (60842) and some street lamps. I am uncertain of the power load of the M84. I do see in the manual that the maximum load per group is 5 amps. I assume this means the requirements of the various items powered by each of the M84 circuits must sum to less than 5 amps. I found a sample strip LED on the internet and their chart shows 7.2watts per meter where there are 30 LEDs per meter, powered by 12VDC.

Using Watt/Volts = Amp or 7.2/12= .6amps or 600mA, which is less than 2amps. Is this correct?

The 60175 maximum output is 3 amps. So this seems safe. Correct?

https://www.ledsupply.co...aterproof-12v-led-strips
This a link to the strip I describe above. Using your example of 125mA per foot, that would be 375mA per meter (approximately) versus the 600mA calculated above. Am I seeing this correctly? Is there another product that you are basing this on (if so, do send a link).

Again, thanks for this help and education

Regards
Harvey




Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 23 November 2020 14:58:05(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,264
Location: Paris, France
Hi Harvey
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
Looking for suggestions on lights to install that would light up my partially covered helix.

I want to light up the partially enclosed helix when a train enters the top or bottom section. I would connect this to the M84. This would allow me to see the train climb the helix. The ceiling of the helix is my amusement park and two sides are mountain scenes and so I can place lights underneath this. Or I can place lights at the bottom or sides. A flood light(s) seems best. I don't see this in the Marklin catalogue. I would run the lights off of my auxillary power loop wire, powered by the standard marklin power pack.

Thanks for suggestions.

Harvey

Certainly the cheapest solution is to buy a 12 V self-adhesive LED string that are usually very inexpensive. You can connect it through your M84 to a 12VDC power supply.
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2020 15:41:21(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
yes your calculations are correct.

as Jean suggests though I would simply use a 12V DC power supply rather than using expensive power from a booster, which would need to be rectified before it can be used by the LED strip.
(Booster produces alternating current in square wave form and the DC light strip can only handle DC current)

See https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2019/10/modelling-with-leds.html for full details.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2020 16:20:16(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,028
Location: Scotland
I have several LEDs attached to my C track. Good for looking in tunnels etc. Viessmann do small LEDs which I find useful for buildings or anywhere which requires a one LED which gives good light on its own.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Harvey  
#9 Posted : 25 November 2020 00:51:50(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Thanks for the link to your educational tools. I have saved.

In researching parts, I have initially found the following products. Are these options logical? Appreciate alternative suggestions.

12 volt dc transformer https://www.wiredco.com/...peres-amps-p/12v_6a1.htm
5m white LED Cool White https://www.superbrightl...-12v24v-ip20/5140/11460/

The LED strip contains 3528 SMD LEDs with 18 LEDs per foot. The vender's picture shows a resister with R6 designation and rating of 5000k (other k options available). Not sure what R6 represents in ohms (600?) and so unsure of the LED's ohms. I will have 2 separated strips but connected (so, essentially 1 strip), one of 12 inches and one of 18 inches, so 18 LEDs and 27 LEDs. Or 6 and 9 segments respectively for a total of 15 segments.

From the 12V transformer (+), I would run a wire to the M84 (let's say unit 1) and a wire from the M84 green connection to the +12v on the LED strip. Note that I indicated the transforer (+) terminal. I am unsure as electrons flow from negative to positive. A return wire would be connected to the transformer.

If the above LED strip is appropriate, I will need to measure the forward voltage and LED resistor (or read it off the strip). For now, I will assume your numerical example applies. This includes 1 diode with 0.6V, go forward voltage of 2.52V (7.56V for a segment)

Required resistor = (Voltage available - (Vf * LED in each segement)- diode Vf) / (# segments * desired Amperage)
= (12 V - (2.52 V * 3) -0.6V) / ( 15 * 0.00025A) = 3.84/ .00375 = 1024 Ohms

It's not clear to me what this 1024 represents - the resistance in the LED or the resistance still needed to be eliminated.
I believe I would use 1/4W rated resistors and add a sufficient number to add up to 1024 ohms.

Greatly appreciate your comments and advice.

Regards
Harvey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#10 Posted : 25 November 2020 14:56:28(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
Those parts look fine!

The R6 means it happens to be resistor number 6 on the strip. The next one is R7...

The result of the calculation is the Ohms of resistance you need to add. Since it is close to 1000 Ohms get yourself some 1K Ohms resistors, then you can add them to make 500, 1000, 1500 ohm circuits. Or you can get 500 Ohms and combine them to make similar sizes. Or wait until you get your strips and you can see the size of the resistors used..... There are also starter sets available with a range of resistor sizes...

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Harvey  
#11 Posted : 25 November 2020 15:35:11(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Thanks for all this help. I will order parts and and proceed slowly.

Regards
Harvey
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Harvey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#12 Posted : 25 November 2020 16:04:30(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
great!

If you happen to be a member of the European Train Enthusiasts (ETE) https://s.ete.org/ you can join their Monday night Zoom calls where I will be presenting part II of the use of LEDs next Monday (Nov 30).

Part one was recorded last Monday (November 16) and you can view the recording in the members area of their web site.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Harvey  
#13 Posted : 25 November 2020 16:30:50(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Now that I am ordering parts, another question

The diode you have used (1N4048) seems no longer available or my search comes up with something costing over $40. I found the following
1N4001 / 1N4004 Si Diode, 600V 1A - NTE116 NTE Semiconductors

NTE Part Number: NTE116
Description: R-SI, 600V, 1A ( 5250 in Semiconductor room, upstairs )

Is this similar and appropriate for the application?

I am not a member of ETE, but thanks for mentioning this presentation.

Regards
Harvey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#14 Posted : 25 November 2020 16:43:21(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
Hi Harvey

1N4048 was a typo that I fixed some time ago, it should (and does now) say 1N4001

sorry about that.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline DaleSchultz  
#15 Posted : 02 December 2020 18:42:35(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,576
Harvey: you need to update your email address in your profile. The one it has for you bounces (fails)
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Harvey  
#16 Posted : 05 December 2020 00:43:08(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Done, thanks for noting.
Harvey
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Harvey
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