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Offline ausland  
#1 Posted : 16 September 2020 18:07:44(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
If my aging memory is correct, the early versions of digital locos, roughly the 3600 series, could be run on the old blue box transformers. Is this correct? If so, what later digital units will run on the old blue monster?

Reason for asking is shortly I'll have a herd of locos and sets going up for sale and I'll have my warehouse in Maryland test all locos before shipment. He's an avid Marklin fan but has only the old style locos with one early digital unit.

Ausland
Online hxmiesa  
#2 Posted : 16 September 2020 19:18:50(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,066
Location: Spain
Why run the risque? get a modern white trafo. They are pretty cheap 2nd hand, and will rule out any problem caused by blue trafos. (Or maybe you prefer playing "russian roulette" with all of your loks, one by one? (pun intended)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline ausland  
#3 Posted : 16 September 2020 20:20:47(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
The collection is in US, Maryland. I'm a bit of a long drive from there, plus nothing is moving from here to there so I can't get there until this virus mess is cured in US. Here in this little harbor town, it is cured.

Since I've been out of the loop for some years, as in 15, what is this white transformer and will it test out all analog and digital locos?
Online hxmiesa  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2020 20:32:00(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,066
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: ausland Go to Quoted Post
Since I've been out of the loop for some years, as in 15, what is this white transformer and will it test out all analog and digital locos?

For the US, it is Märklin item #6646.
It will test all locos (analogue and digital) in ANALOGUE mode.

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline ausland  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2020 20:39:40(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ausland Go to Quoted Post
Since I've been out of the loop for some years, as in 15, what is this white transformer and will it test out all analog and digital locos?

For the US, it is Märklin item #6646. It will test all locos (analogue and digital) in ANALOGUE mode.


Thank you for your assistance. I will have my warehouse lad obtain one. The later locos, here's a partial list. Is there a particular setting on the digital module for 'analogue mode'?

37551 KPEV G8.1 NiB

37803 DB V200 diesel NiB

37882 Kl. Br. 043 DB Dig/Sound NiB

39552 Kl. 57 DB Dig/Sound NiB

37915 Insider Klasse 03.10 DB NiB

37964 Klasse Gt. K.Bay NiB(?)

37970 NYC 2-8-2 MIKADO NiB

37957 Kl. 03, DB, NiB

37971 K. Bay BVI 2-4-0 NiB

37974 Kl. B V1 K. Bay Digital NiB.

37988 Kl. 038 (ex P8) DB NiB

2 x 39160 Franco Costi, BR42, grey, digital
Offline Dave Banks  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2020 20:41:09(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,003
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Why not just get a Mobile station? Not expensive & safe to use on all those lovely digital locos you have listed.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mark...bwG-B&frcectupt=true
D.A.Banks
Offline ausland  
#7 Posted : 16 September 2020 20:58:22(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
Why not just get a Mobile station? Not expensive & safe to use on all those lovely digital locos you have listed.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mark...bwG-B&frcectupt=true


OK, now we're talking. My worker (and long time very good friend) is far more update with electronics and such than I am. This system will test out all digital from 3600 and up?

As an aside, that list is a partial list.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ausland
Offline ausland  
#8 Posted : 17 September 2020 07:25:17(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
Let's try this from another angle. Since at least some of these locos should not, apparently, be run on an analog transformer, I will have a notification slip included in the loco boxes when shipped making it very clear that the loco should not be run or tested on an analogue transformer, this to prevent someone without the knowledge of digital from testing the loco and frying the electronics. I know the 3600 series can be run so, what series can not be run on analogue? 3300? 3400? 3700? 3900?
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 17 September 2020 23:34:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Montreal, QC
All digital locomotives can be run on analog transformers.
Older analog transformers (blue with metal shells) are not recommended for digital locomotives equipped with FX, MFX or OEM ESU decoders (2001-2005) and subsequent in-house Maerklin decoders.
There are two reasons for this. 1) The mains voltage in many countries changed and standards changed, which means that the pulse used to invert the direction of operation of Maerklin locomotives may now exceed the recommended voltage for digital operation. The newer digital decoders could either translate the signal as being told to go into programming mode, which would cause a stop of the locomotive and a potential accident on the tracks or 2) it could feasibly burn out the decoder.
These transformers can be identified by their metal housings and the knob which was also a push button for the inversion pulse. The design enabled the user to initiate a reverse pulse while the throttle was open.
Blue transformers from the late 1970s on are still relatively safe to use. These can be identified by a plastic housing and the knob which required the throttle to be set to zero before a pulse could be initiated by moving the throttle to the left of zero. These transformers may or may not have circuit breakers for short circuits, which temporarily cut off the power.
The current analog transformers have a white housing, different design plugs (for wires not for plugs) and different voltage capacities. These transformers have cut offs in case of short circuits, which can prevent damage.

Before using any transformer with Maerklin, you should check the voltage in the tracks to ensure that the range is 0-18VAC and the reverse pulse is at or below 23VAC.

Anything higher than 23CAV can damage the decoders.

I would recommend the purchase of a white 664X transformer for use.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 18 September 2020 09:22:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,817
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Older analog transformers (blue with metal shells) are not recommended for digital locomotives equipped with FX, MFX or OEM ESU decoders (2001-2005) and subsequent in-house Maerklin decoders.
According to the loco manuals they are not allowed for many modern locos.

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The mains voltage in many countries changed and standards changed, which means that the pulse used to invert the direction of operation of Maerklin locomotives may now exceed the recommended voltage for digital operation.
Irrespective of changed standards, new decoders are too weak for the high reversing voltages of old transformers.

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
These transformers can be identified by their metal housings and the knob which was also a push button for the inversion pulse. The design enabled the user to initiate a reverse pulse while the throttle was open.
Blue metal transformers are a risk for modern decoders even if reversing is triggered by the extreme left position.

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Before using any transformer with Maerklin, you should check the voltage in the tracks to ensure that the range is 0-18VAC and the reverse pulse is at or below 23VAC.
Anything higher than 23CAV can damage the decoders.
The nominal reversing voltage is still 24 V AC. No problem if you measure 25 or 26 V AC on the output side of your transformer. Even the weakest decoders in Märklin locos are specified for at least 28 V reversing voltage. Blue transformers can have more than 30 V reversing voltage.
Finding Märklin transformers with a reversing voltage of 23 V AC or less could be a very difficult task - at least if you have an accurate volt meter.
Nominal driving voltage goes up to 16 V AC. No problem if you read 17 V or 18 V on your volt meter.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ausland  
#11 Posted : 18 September 2020 19:35:31(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
'mike c' and 'HO'

Thank you both for two very informative posts, you have answered my questions perfectly. I will have my warehouse in US find the later 'white' 664X transformer and nose around for a digital control, before I start selling these locos I want them tested to make sure they run as expected. My warehouse boss is well capable of performing this task.

Once I've got the testing deal up and rolling, the units will be offered first to forum members, I'd rather see them go to those who love Marklin (and Trix and Roco) rather than sell them on fleabay. Prices will be quite reasonable, you can rest assured. Shipping will be US and Canada only for the time being, and NZ Post forwarding in California (does Oz have a similar US based forwarding facility for parcels?). Shipping anywhere else is problematic at this time, witness a parcel I sent from Moskau in early August finally appearing in Chicago on 02 September and there it sits to this day, although ChiTown Post says 'parcel is in process of being dispatched to local post of the recipient'.

Kindest regards
Ausland
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by ausland
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 18 September 2020 22:26:29(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: ausland Go to Quoted Post
'mike c' and 'HO'I sent from Moscow in early August finally appearing in Chicago on 02 September and there it sits to this day, although ChiTown Post says 'parcel is in process of being dispatched to local post of the recipient'.

Kindest regards
Ausland


I had a parcel from Switzerland that was supposed to be routed via NYC, but due to limited flights, it was redirected via Chicago instead. It arrived in Chicago at the beginning of the second week of August and sat there for over a month. Finally, a few days ago, there was a scan showing it had been released from customs and was handed back to USPS for delivery. The parcel arrived at my US address two days ago, so the process was very quick once it had left Chicago.

Hopefully the same occurred for your parcel.

Regards

Mike C

Offline ausland  
#13 Posted : 19 September 2020 06:02:42(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I had a parcel from Switzerland that was supposed to be routed via NYC, but due to limited flights, it was redirected via Chicago instead. It arrived in Chicago at the beginning of the second week of August and sat there for over a month. Finally, a few days ago, there was a scan showing it had been released from customs and was handed back to USPS for delivery. The parcel arrived at my US address two days ago, so the process was very quick once it had left Chicago.
Hopefully the same occurred for your parcel.
Regards
Mike C


I ship back and forth often. Normally everything from Europe/Russia goes through New York facility, but on the other hand most mail and parcels from the aforementioned flies 'space available' on passenger airliners. With hardly anything flying now, there is little 'space available'. What is odd is the parcel went to Chicago, which means it probably went on a commercial cargo plane. Still and all, the parcel will eventually get to my warehouse in Maryland and another parcel will start it's trek today. We've got 4 machines in warehouse and enough parts to make two more. If Chicago gets off their duff and moves that parcel, that will give us 9 in stock. This will hold us for a while, considering the state of the economy in US of the moment.

Kindest regards
Ausland

Offline ausland  
#14 Posted : 21 September 2020 05:30:11(UTC)
ausland

Russian Federation   
Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Russia
6646 transformer is on the way to Maryland, compliments of ebay. Also, a wayward 6021 digital controller was in one of the boxes of freight cars, so we're good to go for testing of all locos. I again thank you all for your assistance.

Ausland
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