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Offline Jack_Peters  
#1 Posted : 03 March 2019 00:20:57(UTC)
Jack_Peters

Canada   
Joined: 06/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 11
I might just have real lucky timing. My conversion of 70 meters of analog track to CS3 controlled digital is coming along. I received the CS3 1.4 update and noticed the mention of a "BRAKE" macro to be used on a BRAKE section of track. So the questions are:

1) has anyone yet tried the new BRAKE macro ?
2) does it function like the 72442 Braking Module ?
3) what is the recommended length of the "braking section", 90cm minimum or what ?
4) will this work with any digital loco that has a high efficiency motor/circuit ?

If indeed the CS3 new BRAKE macro can replace the 72442 hardware, that would save me a ton of money, more to invest in rolling stock. I'm planning to make the emergency STOP section a standard 18cm length, and the BARKING section a standard, 90cm length.

Thanks in advance for any comments.
Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 03 March 2019 02:16:14(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Jack_Peters Go to Quoted Post
I might just have real lucky timing. My conversion of 70 meters of analog track to CS3 controlled digital is coming along. I received the CS3 1.4 update and noticed the mention of a "BRAKE" macro to be used on a BRAKE section of track. So the questions are:

1) has anyone yet tried the new BRAKE macro ?
2) does it function like the 72442 Braking Module ?
3) what is the recommended length of the "braking section", 90cm minimum or what ?
4) will this work with any digital loco that has a high efficiency motor/circuit ?

If indeed the CS3 new BRAKE macro can replace the 72442 hardware, that would save me a ton of money, more to invest in rolling stock. I'm planning to make the emergency STOP section a standard 18cm length, and the BARKING section a standard, 90cm length.

Thanks in advance for any comments.


I have it not yet used. But what do you think reading Märklin's update informations here?

https://www.maerklin.de/...ate_1_4-0_info-02_en.pdf

page #6 (last page of the file) point #6 "BREAK"

And yes Märklin writes, you will save the tons of money, because this makro shall do what a break module does too.

Point 4: If it is digital, then it has to work. The work is controlled by the decoder less the motor.
Offline Crazy Harry  
#3 Posted : 03 March 2019 04:26:48(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
page #6 (last page of the file) point #6 "BREAK"


An accompanying wiring diagram or more information (i.e. a description of the events being set up) would be useful. It says a contact is need in each section: braking, stopping and safety. Does that mean that each braking sub event needs an S88 contact to tell the CS3 where the loco is? Maybe Marklin will make a video. But it does say that a braking module isn't required. The German version doesn't say anything more. I guess we have to wait until someone tries it or more information is released.

Cheers,

Harold.

Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 03 March 2019 07:54:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,340
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Jack_Peters Go to Quoted Post
1) has anyone yet tried the new BRAKE macro ?

Yes, it was a bit of a paradigm jump (even after translation).
the whole workflow of, priming the macro (i.e. WHEN and how to prime it) is valid but restrictive.
peripheral to the BRAKE macro itself , I have yet to here HOW to track (read) the loco from a CS3 object - until this is sorted out the Macro is useless for anything other one train (Useless = might as well use a PC)
Quote:
2) does it function like the 72442 Braking Module ?

No: the 72442 WILL work with any loco/decoder BUT will not allow control commands when in the stopped mode
Yes: functionally, but you have to control (specify/inherit) the loco address.
Quote:
3) what is the recommended length of the "braking section", 90cm minimum or what ?

Your layout , your call
Quote:
4) will this work with any digital loco that has a high efficiency motor/circuit ?

motor is irrelevant (relatively) - a decoder with its own inherent Dec(Acc) inertia is desirable

Quote:
If indeed the CS3 new BRAKE macro can replace the 72442 hardware, that would save me a ton of money, more to invest in rolling stock. I'm planning to make the emergency STOP section a standard 18cm length, and the BARKING section a standard, 90cm length.

Stop (overrun) section is desirable, but not essential. some times if you have trains running in both directions the wiring may get unnecessarily complicated

Personally, I would not run the 72442 anyway. If the CS3 macros do not meet your needs use a PC

18cm (one piece of track is OK), if I have space I would use 2 pieces of track (360mm)


Peter
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#5 Posted : 04 March 2019 01:22:25(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Yes, it was a bit of a paradigm jump (even after translation).
the whole workflow of, priming the macro (i.e. WHEN and how to prime it) is valid but restrictive.
peripheral to the BRAKE macro itself , I have yet to here HOW to track (read) the loco from a CS3 object - until this is sorted out the Macro is useless for anything other one train (Useless = might as well use a PC)


Here is a screen shot of the Brake Macro setup screen:

Brake Macro Screen.png

So what does one put in each box? I understand "container" to mean "track segment" or does it mean that box is reserved for some kind of command related to its description?

Thanks,

Harold.
Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 04 March 2019 10:50:40(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,340
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The "Macro" must be called from another (normal) event.

In doing so it is "primed" for use.
If you were thinking that the Macro was self contained and would "just work" when the first sensor is triggered. Think again.

There are some complex scenarios, but the below indicates the basics.

Concept:
The brake macro is setup to support 3 sensors. the first two are mandatory, the third is optional.
- S1 = is to indicate "brake" or more informatively "Slow to a crawl using the locos own inertia"
- S2 = stop
- S3 = emergency (sub) macro should the loco overshoot

Re "Container"
Not my choice of words but it is a placeholder for a parameter.
Containers
- LOCO : must be specified , even if (like all events) it inherits an overriding value from the Calling event.
- VMIN : this is the creep speed. This might be zero, but using, say, 10% means that the loco will slow to that speed but still creep to the STOP location
- FLAG : (appears to be mandatory) this allows for a separate "control sensor?" to set the brake macro to work even if the signal is Green. e.g. if you wanted the train to pause at a station even if the route was clear.
- SEMAPHORE : the Signal controlling the stop area, be it Semaphore or light
- S88 BRAKE : the sensor used to commence braking (S1 as described above)
- S88 STOP : the sensor used to bring the loco to a complete stop (S2)
- OVERLAP = OVERRUN sensor (S3) if triggered when signal is still red this will trigger the EMERGENCY Macro
- EMERGENCY : a separate event to handle an overrun condition - this might be something like setting the CS3 to Stop , or playing a sound/message.

In operation ..
once "primed" the FLAG and SEMAPHORE are immediately checked to see if a halt is expected. if these are both clear then the MACRO ENDS!!!
... it is no good "priming" the macro thinking that you can set the signal red later .
at S1 (and a red signal) the target loco is sent a command to change speed to VMIN : The CS3 remembers the original speed
at S2 (and a red signal) the target loco is sent a command to stop.
when the signal is set green, a command is sent to the target loco to return to the original speed..

Should the Signal be initially Red and the Macro primed and waiting, and then the signal goes Green before a loco arrives (before S1 triggered) then the Macro ends. Similarly, if the Flag was initially set to indicate a Halt, but is cleared before S1 is triggered, the Macro again Ends.


Notes: as mentioned. the Macro must be primed. I imagine this to be when the identified loco leaves a proceeding block. What I cannot workout is how to pick up the identifier from that block and parse it to the downstream brake module.
One other scenario, is for the macro to be primed at the same time whenever the signal turns red. because the macro "finishes" when the signal goes green this might appear to be the easiest implementation. however "which" loco d you prime it for !!
Peter
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2019 15:57:12(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Peter,

Thanks for you thorough explanation. If I may ask, how did you figure that out?

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The "Macro" must be called from another (normal) event.

In doing so it is "primed" for use.


I assume a contact track prior to the braking area could be used as a trigger to "prime" the sequence.

LOCO must be a specific loco and thus the macro only works for one loco, hence your previous comment "until this is sorted out the Macro is useless for anything other than one train."


Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
self contained and would "just work" when the first sensor is triggered.


This is what I believe the braking module (72442) does, correct?

Cheers,

Harold.
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2019 08:56:52(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,340
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
If I may ask, how did you figure that out?

Ignorance and brute perseverance - hoping like hell that it should work somehow

Quote:
I assume a contact track prior to the braking area could be used as a trigger to "prime" the sequence.

Yes that makes sense. However other event logic is needed to select the Loco

Quote:
LOCO must be a specific loco and thus the macro only works for one loco, hence your previous comment "until this is sorted out the Macro is useless for anything other than one train."

Sort of.

The macro must be initially created with a loco of some sort. However in CS3 macros/events if they are called from another reference (e.g. a Loco function) it is that calling Locos address that is referenced.

The issue I was referring to was HOW to determine what the calling Loco address is. I am hopeful that somehow this can be picked up from the tracking ID that we can now right to the layout diagram. I just haven't worked out how ... yet

Quote:

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
self contained and would "just work" when the first sensor is triggered.

This is what I believe the braking module (72442) does, correct?

More or less yes.

The loco stops for all but the oldest of decoders (i.e. c90 onwards = ok) - the c80 will just truck through at high speed
There is no control over loco (sound / sights) when in stopped mode

Extra wiring is needed - even more if you want it to operate with bidirectional traffic.
Peter
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Offline Oliver Obert  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2019 14:02:48(UTC)
Oliver Obert

Germany   
Joined: 05/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Koeln
I have sent an email to Märklin service. Their response was, that the new macros (including BRAKE) are for specialists only and that Märklin will not publish any further documentation besides the release notes. In my opinion quite user unfriendly and it indicates to me that Märklin is not really interested in increasing their customer base.

I plan to test the BRAKE macro offline before implementing it online on the main track. I have several breaking modules in operation. The breaking module operates well for all locos with respective decoder (fx, mfx). I have also my doubts, that the BRAKE macro completely substitutes the breaking module since the BRAKE macro is loco specific. If two BRAKE macros are active how does CS3 determines the loco that has triggered the macro?

Thank you very much for the replies to this topic so far. Helps me certainly in the setup of my offline testing track.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2019 15:03:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,328
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Oliver Obert Go to Quoted Post
I have sent an email to Märklin service. Their response was, that the new macros (including BRAKE) are for specialists only and that Märklin will not publish any further documentation besides the release notes. In my opinion quite user unfriendly and it indicates to me that Märklin is not really interested in increasing their customer base.

I plan to test the BRAKE macro offline before implementing it online on the main track. I have several breaking modules in operation. The breaking module operates well for all locos with respective decoder (fx, mfx). I have also my doubts, that the BRAKE macro completely substitutes the breaking module since the BRAKE macro is loco specific. If two BRAKE macros are active how does CS3 determines the loco that has triggered the macro?

Thank you very much for the replies to this topic so far. Helps me certainly in the setup of my offline testing track.


I would suggest you request a copy of the manual that they will be supplying to such specialists. There must be documentation somewhere that they supply to allow them to make use of such features.

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Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 05 March 2019 22:12:16(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Oliver Obert Go to Quoted Post
I have sent an email to Märklin service. Their response was, that the new macros (including BRAKE) are for specialists only and that Märklin will not publish any further documentation besides the release notes. In my opinion quite user unfriendly and it indicates to me that Märklin is not really interested in increasing their customer base.

I plan to test the BRAKE macro offline before implementing it online on the main track. I have several breaking modules in operation. The breaking module operates well for all locos with respective decoder (fx, mfx). I have also my doubts, that the BRAKE macro completely substitutes the breaking module since the BRAKE macro is loco specific. If two BRAKE macros are active how does CS3 determines the loco that has triggered the macro?

Thank you very much for the replies to this topic so far. Helps me certainly in the setup of my offline testing track.


I really do not understand why some people do not read Märklin's informations. They write and expalin quite clearly what they are doing with point "III. Add-ons for specialists" in their last update-information CS 3 for the update version 1.4.0., page 5, as well as in their manual for the CS 3.

German
https://www.maerklin.de/...update_1_4-0_info-01.pdf

and

English
https://www.maerklin.de/...ate_1_4-0_info-02_en.pdf


There are sections, which are not provided for a regular user. It is for experienced ones, who know something about EDP and the binary system. This is normal for every software. E.g. mostly documented for windows. Sometimes you can read headings like "the hidden windows functions" etc.. Why is it so difficult to accept this? Why are you blaming Märklin for something which is up to you and not to Märklin? For me it is wicked by the customer and not a unkindliness by the supplier.
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Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 05 March 2019 22:29:59(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,244
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
There are sections, which are not provided for a regular user. It is for experienced ones, who know something about EDP and the binary system. This is normal for every software. E.g. mostly documented for windows. Sometimes you can read headings like "the hidden windows functions" etc.. Why is it so difficult to accept this? Why are you blaming Märklin for something which is up to you and not to Märklin? For me it is wicked by the customer and not a unkindliness by the supplier.


We will sell you a car; but we will not tell you how to start the engine or how to turn on the lights LOL Flapper LOL

Per.

P.S: And then you don't understand why people wants to buy an ECos Flapper LOL Flapper

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Jack_Peters  
#13 Posted : 06 March 2019 00:12:56(UTC)
Jack_Peters

Canada   
Joined: 06/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 11
I have read the Marklin documentation, particularly the CS3 1.4 Update Info. Knowing that the original is always in German, when I read titles like "III. Add-Ons for Specialists" I did not interpret that as having to be a Marklin "insider". I read (Specialist) as an "Advanced" CS3 user, why else waste 2 pages of information on "programming" which is part of advanced usage of a CS3.

I am a computer consultant and do some programming, so I have some understanding of "macros" and was happy to see some "user" instructions for AND, OR, IF, LOOP, RANDOM and BRAKE. This type of detail is not necessary to be published to the general public if it is not intended for the general public.

I have recently joined and had just reviewed all the Digital PDFs from 2015 until now. Vol 27 No. 1 2015 was of particular interest since it explains the gradual advancement of "block" control with various sensors. The more advanced methods include a "braking module" section. Having designed 18 blocks in my k-track layout, I'm very intrigued by any information regarding a gradual slow down while remaining power on the loco for lights and sound.

So you might understand the reasoning behind this topic. I truly wish to thank you for your input. I had not considered the steep uphill challenge that the new 1.4 update to the CS3 has provided. I have only had the CS3 for a couple of month, and had been running analog with 3 transformers for the last 40 years.
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Offline Oliver Obert  
#14 Posted : 06 March 2019 14:29:57(UTC)
Oliver Obert

Germany   
Joined: 05/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Koeln
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Oliver Obert Go to Quoted Post
I have sent an email to Märklin service. Their response was, that the new macros (including BRAKE) are for specialists only and that Märklin will not publish any further documentation besides the release notes. In my opinion quite user unfriendly and it indicates to me that Märklin is not really interested in increasing their customer base.

I plan to test the BRAKE macro offline before implementing it online on the main track. I have several breaking modules in operation. The breaking module operates well for all locos with respective decoder (fx, mfx). I have also my doubts, that the BRAKE macro completely substitutes the breaking module since the BRAKE macro is loco specific. If two BRAKE macros are active how does CS3 determines the loco that has triggered the macro?

Thank you very much for the replies to this topic so far. Helps me certainly in the setup of my offline testing track.


I really do not understand why some people do not read Märklin's informations. They write and expalin quite clearly what they are doing with point "III. Add-ons for specialists" in their last update-information CS 3 for the update version 1.4.0., page 5, as well as in their manual for the CS 3.

German
https://www.maerklin.de/...update_1_4-0_info-01.pdf

and

English
https://www.maerklin.de/...ate_1_4-0_info-02_en.pdf


There are sections, which are not provided for a regular user. It is for experienced ones, who know something about EDP and the binary system. This is normal for every software. E.g. mostly documented for windows. Sometimes you can read headings like "the hidden windows functions" etc.. Why is it so difficult to accept this? Why are you blaming Märklin for something which is up to you and not to Märklin? For me it is wicked by the customer and not a unkindliness by the supplier.


I have read the release notes and I am quite familiar with programming and digital technology. I have my doubts that Märklin is in this particular case customer-oriented. I was also asking whether a "Technik-Tipp" on the macros is considered. You can bet the answer. I guess such features should be made available not only to "specialist" but also to a wider range of customers.

I will come back to this thread after the brake macro has gone live on my track.
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#15 Posted : 07 March 2019 03:16:41(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Jack_Peters Go to Quoted Post
I read (Specialist) as an "Advanced" CS3 user


I agree with this interpretation. I think even an Advanced user could expect a few instructions from Marklin on how to use this more complex Macro!

Originally Posted by: Oliver Obert Go to Quoted Post
I will come back to this thread after the brake macro has gone live on my track.


Looking forward to your findings Oliver!

Cheers,

Harold.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#16 Posted : 07 March 2019 11:05:32(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
I think even an Advanced user could expect a few instructions from Marklin on how to use this more complex Macro!

The information is in the help file. It clearly tells how to use the macro. Granted, it does not elaborate in great details, but there sure was enough for me to get it working and experimenting.

I also don't get that people think "not enough information is available". There is a comprehensive book, in English, and there is a lot of information in the help files on the device itself. What is it that you all want more?

You can't expect Märklin to update a book each time a new feature comes along. This is what the help files and Märklin Magazin is for. Märklin Magazin contains loads of information on how to use the CS3.

I think Märklin does more than any other manufacturer has ever done.
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Offline Legless  
#17 Posted : 07 March 2019 11:06:03(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 761
Location: Leopold, Victoria
To me the advanced macro is just like a beta mode.

Märklin have built this in to the program, so people around the world with program knowledge can test varying setup in the program. Then give their feedback to Märklin to analyze.

After this Märklin releases safe directions to the general users.

Lots of software companies do this as standard practice.
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#18 Posted : 07 March 2019 16:52:53(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
The information is in the help file.


Thanks MaerklinLife,

I only did a review of the help files and didn't find anything on the Brake macro. Could you give me a more detailed hint of where those instructions are?

Cheers,

Harold.
Offline clapcott  
#19 Posted : 07 March 2019 18:34:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,340
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
.... What is it that you all want more? ...

Can you please elaborate on how to have an event/macro retrieve/pickup the loco reference from a (upstream) block, as the loco exits it (e.g. the loco ID value assigned to a signal on the track board) and use it to prime a downstream block (be it a BRAKE section or just to track that Loco ID to the show against the downstream signal/block)

I can to this with the ,more convoluted, use of control flags, but would like to cut through all of that and use the value from the layout itself.
Peter
Offline TEEWolf  
#20 Posted : 07 March 2019 19:24:42(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jack_Peters Go to Quoted Post
I read (Specialist) as an "Advanced" CS3 user


I agree with this interpretation. I think even an Advanced user could expect a few instructions from Marklin on how to use this more complex Macro!

Originally Posted by: Oliver Obert Go to Quoted Post
I will come back to this thread after the brake macro has gone live on my track.


Looking forward to your findings Oliver!

Cheers,

Harold.


Hello Harold,

your native tongue is English? So you know English much better as I do. Nevertheless I understand advanced in a way, a user often uses an article, get more used to it, finding more and more details, gaining trust in this article, which he uses than. A specialist for me is e.g. a software engineer with a special education. The ability to read, write and then of course does also understand the algorithm of a software. I do not know as to describe in English the differences in a better way, but to me are significant differences between advanced and specialist.

Here in the forum sometimes I am hit badly, while I ask and insist in a correct and exact wording. Here you see now one reason why I am doing this and its importance. This attitude was tought to me by my professors at university ages ago, while I had to write scientific theses. Sorry that I still keep this attitude up today.

Best Regards

Wolfgang
Offline MaerklinLife  
#21 Posted : 07 March 2019 20:44:01(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Can you please elaborate on how to have an event/macro retrieve/pickup the loco reference from a (upstream) block, as the loco exits it (e.g. the loco ID value assigned to a signal on the track board) and use it to prime a downstream block (be it a BRAKE section or just to track that Loco ID to the show against the downstream signal/block)

I can to this with the ,more convoluted, use of control flags, but would like to cut through all of that and use the value from the layout itself.

Yeah, you misunderstood me. You are asking for a feature. I was commenting on all those who think Märklin does not do enough to explain about the features already in there. You got books, you got help files, you got the magazine... more than most other manufacturers do.

I wasn't defending the brake macro if that is what you think. Personally, I find it useless. And I don't think the (as far as I can understand) inheritance of locos between event sequences works. At least not as expected. I had to assign a specific loco to the brake macro. This makes the whole thing a bit cumbersome.

From the help file:
"The locomotive to be controlled is located in the locomotive container. As with events, the BRAKE macro passes on the loco reference and controls the loco of the higher-level event."

Nothing gets "passed on" from event to event in my CS3. But perhaps this is a hint of future features.

Also, the macro checks the signal status at startup - which is fine - except that it never checks again. It should check the signal when the train triggers the first contact instead. That way the signal can change it status while the "mother" event is running. Something might happen that changes the signal before the train arrives. Anyway, it is a version 1, a glimpse of things to come. But a replacement for the hardware module? No, it is certainly not.
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#22 Posted : 07 March 2019 21:14:45(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
I only did a review of the help files and didn't find anything on the Brake macro. Could you give me a more detailed hint of where those instructions are?

If you check the website of your CS3, you can read all the help files. You can also do it on the CS3 itself, but the website is easier (at least I think so).

The German pages generally contain more information as things takes time to be translated. But a Googly version is here:

"A BRAKE macro realizes in software the functions of a hardware brake module. It serves to stop the controlled locomotive at a stop signal.
The active BRAKE macro monitors the travel ranges or the S88 contacts braking distance B, holding range H and slip distance D. The BRAKE macro is influenced by the signal S and the pause flag P.

The operation of the BRAKE macro is as follows:

The locomotive to be controlled is located in the locomotive container. As with events, the BRAKE macro passes on the loco reference and controls the loco of the higher-level event.

The train control is started when the macro is running as soon as condition S is met and contact B is occupied. The macro itself can be started earlier, it waits for the fulfillment of these conditions with the start of the train control.

First, the current cruising speed is saved. Thereafter, the loco is slowed to the creeping speed defined in Container V. If a soft BV is active for the locomotive, this is used, otherwise the ABV of the decoder applies.

The locomotive will hopefully go at slow speed in the holding section. As soon as contact H occupies position 0 is sent. The train should now stop.

If she does not - contact D will be triggered. This will trigger the configured action. Useful here are GFP stop or an event that realizes what is now meaningful.

As a rule, the locomotive is in the stop section as planned. There it remains until the holding condition S goes out (e.g. signal goes back to green). Subsequently, the stored travel speed is sent to the locomotive.

The processing is terminated, either immediately or with the specified break.

If the pause flag P is set, the train will always stop. This is used to correct malfunctions or end of operation. The controlled locomotives come to a halt at the stops.

In the macro, elements can be omitted / not occupied. The changed behavior is:
Contact H: Instead of crawl speed, gear 0 is immediately sent to the locomotive.
Contact D or action item: There is no triggering of the action item. The same if only the action item is empty.

If a BRAKE macro is created but not started, it will not be active. The macro will only work when started in the context of another event."
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Offline Jack_Peters  
#23 Posted : 07 March 2019 22:43:23(UTC)
Jack_Peters

Canada   
Joined: 06/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
I only did a review of the help files and didn't find anything on the Brake macro. Could you give me a more detailed hint of where those instructions are?

If you check the website of your CS3, you can read all the help files. You can also do it on the CS3 itself, but the website is easier (at least I think so).

The German pages generally contain more information as things takes time to be translated. But a Googly version is here:

"A BRAKE macro realizes in software the functions of a hardware brake module. It serves to stop the controlled locomotive at a stop signal.
The active BRAKE macro monitors the travel ranges or the S88 contacts braking distance B, holding range H and slip distance D. The BRAKE macro is influenced by the signal S and the pause flag P.

The operation of the BRAKE macro is as follows:

The locomotive to be controlled is located in the locomotive container. As with events, the BRAKE macro passes on the loco reference and controls the loco of the higher-level event.

The train control is started when the macro is running as soon as condition S is met and contact B is occupied. The macro itself can be started earlier, it waits for the fulfillment of these conditions with the start of the train control.

First, the current cruising speed is saved. Thereafter, the loco is slowed to the creeping speed defined in Container V. If a soft BV is active for the locomotive, this is used, otherwise the ABV of the decoder applies.

The locomotive will hopefully go at slow speed in the holding section. As soon as contact H occupies position 0 is sent. The train should now stop.

If she does not - contact D will be triggered. This will trigger the configured action. Useful here are GFP stop or an event that realizes what is now meaningful.

As a rule, the locomotive is in the stop section as planned. There it remains until the holding condition S goes out (e.g. signal goes back to green). Subsequently, the stored travel speed is sent to the locomotive.

The processing is terminated, either immediately or with the specified break.

If the pause flag P is set, the train will always stop. This is used to correct malfunctions or end of operation. The controlled locomotives come to a halt at the stops.

In the macro, elements can be omitted / not occupied. The changed behavior is:
Contact H: Instead of crawl speed, gear 0 is immediately sent to the locomotive.
Contact D or action item: There is no triggering of the action item. The same if only the action item is empty.

If a BRAKE macro is created but not started, it will not be active. The macro will only work when started in the context of another event."


Well thanks for the effort, but the googly English version of the German text is well ............

Guess I'll be patient and see if Rick Sinclair or Curtis Jeung will cover this in a Digital Newsletter soon.

I will in the mean time give it a go on my existing layout. If I have any success, then I will update ASAP.


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Offline MaerklinLife  
#24 Posted : 08 March 2019 06:08:27(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Jack_Peters Go to Quoted Post

Guess I'll be patient and see if Rick Sinclair or Curtis Jeung will cover this in a Digital Newsletter soon.

I will in the mean time give it a go on my existing layout. If I have any success, then I will update ASAP.

Okay, here is what you do:

To set up a test of the brake macro you need the following:

1. A signal with a decoder (or at least a virtual one, meaning: if you don't have a signal, create one as if you had, it does not matter, the CS only uses the status internally).
2. At least two feedback contacts, S88
3. A control contact (create one from the article list)
4. Your CS3 must be in advanced mode (from the system menu turn on advanced events)

The brake macro:
- Lok container = Drag the loco here
- V min container = The crawl speed that the loco will reduce its speed to when hitting the contact in container B.
- Pause-Flag container = The override button that allows to stop all trains at their brake positions with the push of one button
- Signal container = Drag the signal in question here
- Brems S88 container = The first S88 contact that the train reaches goes here. When this is active, the train will start braking
- Halt S88 container = When the train reaches the contact in this container, it will stop
- D-Weg S88 container = If the train reaches this contact, something prevented the train from stopping and the event in the...
- Notaktion container = ...will be executed.

Consider a set up like this:

Direction of travel -->

====S88 Contact A === (brake section) ==== S88 Contact B === (stop section) ==== [Signal] === S88 Contact C (emergency section) ===

To use the brake macro:
1. Create an event, call it "Brake test" (or what ever).
2. Drag a locomotive to the event, set the locomotive speed.
3. Now add a brake macro by editing your event and click the plus sign in the event window (next to the name). In the menu scroll down to brake macro.
4. A brake macro is created. Find it in the event list and edit it.
5. Drag the same locomotive to the locomotive container. The locomotive container and the one next to it is filled. Set the speed to the speed (V container) you want the locomotive to crawl with towards its stop.
6. In the next container (the pause container) drag the control contact. This will ensure that the train will brake disregarding the status of the signal, giving you a chance to stop all trains by the click of one button. Just a feature.
7. Drag the signal to the signal container (next to the control contact)
8. Drag the first S88 contact that the train will reach to the B-container.
9. Drag the second S88 contact that the train will reach to the H-container.
10. If you want you can drag a contact after the signal to the D-Weg container, but it is not mandatory.
11. The Notaktion container is the task that is performed if the train skips the signal. Again, not mandatory. If you want, you can create a new event, throw an emergency stop in there, and drag the event into the Notaktion container.

Now put your loco on a path towards the signal, an start the "brake test" event.

The loco should run towards the signal and stop when it gets there, assuming the signal is red of course. When you turn the signal back to green the loco will continue.

Now, if the control contact is on (or off, I can't actually remember) the loco will ignore the state of the signal and stop anyway. You can experiment with that.

The brake macro is very basic and it cannot (at the time being) replace the original brake module if you ask me. Of course, you can do a lot of fiddling with events and create something that might be able to replace the brake module, but you will never achieve the same kind of flexibility with the features currently available. I am sure it will get there in time though, there are a lot of new features in the 1.4 updates that gives us a hint on what the future might hold.

I hope this gives you a better idea on how to use the brake macro. There is not more to it than the above.

Edited by user 20 March 2019 18:35:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Crazy Harry  
#25 Posted : 08 March 2019 21:50:36(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 371
Location: Oakville, Ontario
MaerklinLife helped answer my questions regarding more information about setting up this braking macro.

The big problem is that the English help screens are not the same as the German ones! I started up my CS3 and connected via WiFi, here is a screen capture comparison of the German and the English help topics:

CS3 Help Screens.pdf (339kb) downloaded 104 time(s).

There are only 27 topics in English, but 32 topics in German! To top that off, some of the German topics have links that go to further subtopics (like the new set of macros added with update 1.4.0)!!!

Fortunately, for me anyway, I can read the German and can probably figure it out after reading it several times. Not so good for non-German users!

Moral of the story is to figure out if the German instructions are more detailed (hard to do if you don't know any German). Then copy those instructions and use a translating tool to get some help in your native tongue.

Cheers,

Harold.
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Offline Danlake  
#26 Posted : 20 March 2019 09:04:15(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,520
Just noticed Søren from forum has made an excellent guide regarding the brake macro. Even though he is a Marklin consultant I appreciate his honesty when evaluating the usefulness of the new brake macro:

http://railway.zone/post...w-to-use-the-brake-macro

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 20 March 2019 12:57:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,328
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Just noticed Søren from forum has made an excellent guide regarding the brake macro. Even though he is a Marklin consultant I appreciate his honesty when evaluating the usefulness of the new brake macro:

http://railway.zone/post...w-to-use-the-brake-macro

Best Regards
Lasse


I think he has found the jist of how it is supposed to work. Not his final words on that page ...
Quote:

Another feature that came in the 1.4.0 update was the ability to position a train on the track plan, meaning that you can tell the CS3 which train occupies a certain contact. Future use of this information can be used to create an even simpler brake macro as one would then only need one brake macro pr. signal, and only tell the macro which train is coming. This would be truly amazing.


Quite clearly the way the loco portion is set up, when a route is set up it will pass the loco address that is occupying a previous block to this brake macro. I suspect that all the functionality is already in the code to do this, but as others have found, this information is only available to "specialists" Cool Cool Cool This is why the blocks that you enter information into are called 'containers', the information is passed in a container from one block to the next as required. I suspect that the s88 containers could also have information passed into them, e.g. a single s88 contact could serve the entrance to a whole station yard before the points, with one brake macro for the whole station track ladder then being passed the s88 contact for the individual track where the stop is to take place, depending on how the points are set. The use of containers is very versatile.

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Offline trainbuff  
#28 Posted : 23 June 2020 20:18:52(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 502
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Hi,
Thanks for the brake macro instructions, I now have a working brake macro! But I do have a question: for the EMERGENCY Macro, how does one set the CS3 to stop? I inserted an empty event called 'emergency stop' in the last container of the brake macro. But I cant figure out that event is supposed to set the CS3 stop button.
Thanks,
Chris
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

.....
- OVERLAP = OVERRUN sensor (S3) if triggered when signal is still red this will trigger the EMERGENCY Macro
- EMERGENCY : a separate event to handle an overrun condition - this might be something like setting the CS3 to Stop , or playing a sound/message.
.....


Offline trainbuff  
#29 Posted : 25 June 2020 16:58:23(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 502
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Never mind, I found it under the event's add pull down menu, control. thanks

Originally Posted by: trainbuff Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
Thanks for the brake macro instructions, I now have a working brake macro! But I do have a question: for the EMERGENCY Macro, how does one set the CS3 to stop? I inserted an empty event called 'emergency stop' in the last container of the brake macro. But I cant figure out that event is supposed to set the CS3 stop button.
Thanks,
Chris
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

.....
- OVERLAP = OVERRUN sensor (S3) if triggered when signal is still red this will trigger the EMERGENCY Macro
- EMERGENCY : a separate event to handle an overrun condition - this might be something like setting the CS3 to Stop , or playing a sound/message.
.....




Offline oranda  
#30 Posted : 13 September 2020 11:54:34(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 99
Location: ENGLAND
I spent my working life teaching secondary school students how to program and use computers and I know very little about trains, signals etc. and with only a basic smidging of electrics.

I initially came to Märklin digital wishing to implement what is here above, described as the 'specialist' aspect of using the CS3, and I can say now that as a 60+ retired teacher, that many of my school pupils would grasp very quickly these 'specialist' concepts, events and macros etc. which Märklin appears to have shrouded in the pdf under the guise of a specialist dark art!

There are such a great I.T. learning opportunities in aspects of control using this system, that it really surprises me that Märklin does not appear to be more strongly promoting them.

Using a Linux based CS3 box, they could open it up more and provide a more open structure to permit this learning to happen. Retaining a proprietary closed box is not the way to sustain a shrinking market. It seems to me that they may be trying to do this but haven't yet grasped the potential market that lays outside of their 60+ aged user base.

Get rid of the specialist tag and make it the norm, for now and for the future.

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Offline PJMärklin  
#31 Posted : 13 September 2020 12:17:08(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,593
Location: Hobart, Australia
Hello Peter,

Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
There are such a great I.T. learning opportunities in aspects of control using this system, that it really surprises me that Märklin does not appear to be more strongly promoting them.


From my understanding of Märklin and Märklin USA history, I thought they indeed did in the past, and his name was Dr.Tom Catherall :

https://mrr.trains.com/n...mas-catherall-1943--2014

Regards,

PJ
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Offline oranda  
#32 Posted : 27 September 2020 19:16:17(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 99
Location: ENGLAND
Hi PJMärklin

I know nothing of Dr. Tom Catherall other than from the link you provided.

However that was in 2014, now 2020 - I wonder what has Märklin done since then, either in Germany or elsewhere to involve students in education?

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