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Offline DB Fan  
#1 Posted : 03 August 2020 05:31:30(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Hello
Getting back into building a layout. I have a CS 1 and want to convert most of my analog engines to digital. I thought that some time ago I saw a list on this forum that showed what decoder to use for each different analog engine. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks .

Robert

Edited by user 06 August 2020 05:35:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 03 August 2020 10:45:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
I thought that some time ago I saw a list on this forum that showed what decoder to use for each different analog engine.
The decoders are the same, but there are different motor conversion kits for the different Märklin motors (DCM, SFCM, LFCM). Maybe you have that list on your mind.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline DB Fan  
#3 Posted : 05 August 2020 14:44:34(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Thanks for getting back with me. What about digital decoders with sound? I would assume that they be different. How could I find out which decoder goes with the correct engine. Thanks.

Robert
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 August 2020 15:20:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
How could I find out which decoder goes with the correct engine.
Typically there are many sound projects that can be uploaded to the sound decoder using a specific tool from the decoder manufacturer. Sometimes the dealer can do it for you.
So almost any sound decoder can be configured to go with almost any loco.

Some folks will tell you ESU decoders are best. Some prefer Zimo or D&H. Some go for Märklin decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 05 August 2020 20:12:18(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for getting back with me. What about digital decoders with sound? I would assume that they be different. How could I find out which decoder goes with the correct engine. Thanks.

Robert


Actually Maerklin offers only one major decoder, the multiprotocol mSD3 (= Märklin Sound Decoder 3rd generation) for analogue and digital operations and with sound. This all is written in the decoder's manual. The more often you read it, the more you will be surprised about the given information.
There are other decoders for specific usage, like decoders with no sound, decoder with an 8 pin NEM connection and for the Hobby locos. More important are the engines inside the locos. Therefore look into the manuals of the decoder and the loco. These required motors makes it complicated, because normally you do not know which motor is built into the loco. This you have to find out first.

Note: the three different article# for the mSD3 refer only to the preinstalled sound. It is steam, Diesel or E-loco. But you can use every decoder for every loco and change the sound later. Changing say from Diesel to steam is possible.
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Offline DB Fan  
#6 Posted : 06 August 2020 05:35:24(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Thanks for all the great info.

Robert
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 06 August 2020 10:58:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Actually Maerklin offers only one major decoder, the multiprotocol mSD3.....


Wrong again!

Robert implied an interest in non sound decoders as well, for which Marklin have the mLd3 decoder.

Marklin also has the 60760 kit, which is a kit for 30€ that includes motor conversion parts for a DCM motor (the most common type) and a basic non-mfx (MM only) decoder.

ESU have either the Lokpilot 5 for a non sound decoder and the Loksound 5 decoder for a sound decoder.

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
But you can use every decoder for every loco and change the sound later. Changing say from Diesel to steam is possible.


Yes, this is correct but you need either a CS2/CS3 or a Marklin Decoder Programmer to be able to change the sound on a mSD3 decoder.

You will need an ESU Lokprogrammer to be able to change sounds on a Loksound decoder.

In regard to motor types in a given loco, Helmutt Kern's website has useful information - he lists what motor type most Marklin locos up until about 2004 have - LFCM / SFCM / DCM

http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/



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Offline PJMärklin  
#8 Posted : 06 August 2020 12:53:03(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
In regard to motor types in a given loco, Helmutt Kern's website has useful information -
he lists what motor type most Marklin locos up until about 2004 have - LFCM / SFCM / DCM
http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/



Thanks David for this useful reference.

Good to know what to expect (and what motor conversion to have to hand) before opening a loco for
upgrade (other than opening it beforehand only to find you are out of that unit !)
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Offline TEEWolf  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2020 15:15:55(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Actually Maerklin offers only one major decoder, the multiprotocol mSD3.....


Wrong again!

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

There are other decoders for specific usage, like decoders with no sound, decoder with an 8 pin NEM connection and for the Hobby locos.


Perhaps you go back to school getting some more lessons in reading.LOL Once I thought you might be smart - I think it was an error.

I know this hfkern page, but it relates to locos instead constructions. Similar is this side too.

http://www.maerklin-samm...omotiven/03021/03021.htm

If you have a loco not listed, you are out of the game. So I sent @DBFan per mail this page with an overview of Märklin motors:

https://www.stayathome.ch/motoren.htm

@DBFan told me once, he is understanding German. Very good, I can send ihm plenty of informations in German per mailSmile, because this forum is in EnglishBigGrin. Although I do not know, if you are understanding German too and cos marklin-users.net is in English nevertheless I give you an extra link about Märklin Trommelkollektor and Scheibenkollektor motors for reconstruction - in GermanLaugh. But the pictures and article numbers and even a reference to ESU BigGrin will please you.

https://www.stayathome.ch/Motorumbau.htm
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 06 August 2020 18:01:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

You will need an ESU Lokprogrammer to be able to change sounds on a Loksound decoder.


But you can also order a Loksound decoder loaded with any sound file listed on the ESU web site. The dealer will load the file into the decoder so the end customer doesn't actually need a Lokprogrammer unless they are going to build their own sound file.

The end customer may need to get down and dirty with understanding the myriad CVs to get the decoder set up how they want, but this doesn't need Lokprogrammer hardware.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 07 August 2020 00:09:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps you go back to school getting some more lessons in reading.LOL Once I thought you might be smart - I think it was an error.


Perhaps you should show a bit more respect to forum moderators and forum members. Comments such as this borders on personal abuse, which is not permitted in the forum.

Offline TEEWolf  
#12 Posted : 07 August 2020 00:56:52(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps you go back to school getting some more lessons in reading.LOL Once I thought you might be smart - I think it was an error.


Perhaps you should show a bit more respect to forum moderators and forum members. Comments such as this borders on personal abuse, which is not permitted in the forum.




Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Actually Maerklin offers only one major decoder, the multiprotocol mSD3.....


Wrong again!

Do you think this is respectful? I say NO. If you want to be treated respectfully, you should start doing it by yourself. For example, writing in red is not respectfully to me either.

Respect has to be earned and cannot be forced from a position of authority, like the one of a moderator. (Hopefully this is correctly expressed by my English).

At this point I am finishing this discussion. It has nothing to do with this thread.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 07 August 2020 02:46:48(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
For example, writing in red is not respectfully to me either.


It's called a warning, something moderators are entitled to do. We reserve the blue and red text for moderator messages and warnings.

Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 07 August 2020 07:39:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
TS did verified he use CS1 and this central station are limited in function.
I don´t think TS can reprogram new decoder with this CS1 and he need decoder program to program Märklins sound decoder.
Best way is to buy digital locomotive with the sounds.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 07 August 2020 08:44:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
TS did verified he use CS1 and this central station are limited in function.
Depends on one's needs.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I don´t think TS can reprogram new decoder with this CS1 and he need decoder program to program Märklins sound decoder.
The CS1 cannot upload sound projects, but can change many settings including load regulation parameters.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Best way is to buy digital locomotive with the sounds.
People with many analogue locos want to convert them. You don't have that problem as you start from scratch every other year.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 07 August 2020 09:15:38(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Best way is to buy digital locomotive with the sounds.
People with many analogue locos want to convert them. You don't have that problem as you start from scratch every other year.



It cost more to convert analog to digital than what you pay for ready made digital sound locomotive.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 07 August 2020 09:31:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It cost more to convert analog to digital than what you pay for ready made digital sound locomotive.
Is that so?
I'm so dumb and converted several locos. What a waste of money.

Not many ready-made digital sound locomotives on the market for less than 100 Euros. What am I missing?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 07 August 2020 13:00:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
To pay analog locomotive too?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 07 August 2020 13:10:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
To pay analog locomotive too?
Analogue locos I already have come without additional cost - and may have a big sentimental value.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#20 Posted : 08 August 2020 12:54:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
What semantial value? You pay what ever it cost and to change analog to digital cost with also service.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline hxmiesa  
#21 Posted : 08 August 2020 14:37:33(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
What semantial value? You pay whatever it cost and to change analog to digital cost with also service.


If you already HAVE an excellent analog locomotive. One that you maye already have improved upon, regarding lights, couplers, smoke-unit.
Maybe changing the numbering/lettering to not have two with the same running number.
Maybe the loc has been beautifully weathered or in any other way changed compared to the stock version.
Maybe the model in question is not even made anymore in a newer version.
The sentimental value could be that some dear friend gifted the loco for some anniversary or birthday/X-mas gift. Maybe something inherited from a dad or granddad.
These kinds of locos are priceless, and would probably only be of small value if sold on Ebay or the like.

But let us just say that it could fetch a 100,-, if sold anyway.
It is therefore more economic to just spend another 100,- and upgrade the interior electronics.
This can still be several hundreds LESS than what a new sound-lok would cost!!!


Okay, so I took my time giving you a serious answer, already fearing that it is a waste of time... Cursing
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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H0
Offline DB Fan  
#22 Posted : 08 August 2020 15:05:34(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
To Goofy
I would appreciate if you would stop posting on here if you don’t have something constructive to say about the question I had on this thread. You don’t know why I’m doing this or made the effort to find out if I’m doing the conversions myself but instead made assumptions about me and the reasons why and I don’t appreciate that. My questions where answered and that’s why I’m asking the moderators to lock this thread. Thank you.

Respectfully

Robert
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