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Offline jvroyo65  
#1 Posted : 30 July 2020 13:15:19(UTC)
jvroyo65

Spain   
Joined: 20/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: La Rioja, Logrono
Hello,

Do you know if there is any design software that can simulate the analog control of a layout?
I mean, a software that shows what happens when you push a button in your 72720 control desk...

I have been searching through the forum posts and trying some free software and free trial versions but could not find anything.

The best approach has been Wintrack, but seems that only can check the continuity and warn when there is a short circuit, unless the PRO version has this feature...

Thanks for your comments,

José.
Offline jvroyo65  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2020 18:01:31(UTC)
jvroyo65

Spain   
Joined: 20/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: La Rioja, Logrono

Hi,

After more searching I found this: 3D Train Studio.
It does not work with electrical circuits but with virtual connections and event activations when something is changed/contacted.
So far I have been able to simulate my whole layout with 6 signals that enable/disable track sections and 8 switches synchronized with the signals and other switches.
The only limitation for now is that the locos are stopped in front of red signals and do not run when signal changes to green unless you activate the locos again, so the automatic control of the layout cannot be checked precisely. But maybe I have missed any configuration...

Regards,

José.



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvroyo65
Offline jvroyo65  
#3 Posted : 04 August 2020 16:12:16(UTC)
jvroyo65

Spain   
Joined: 20/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: La Rioja, Logrono
Update on 3D Train Studio:

Well, the event management learning curve is a little hard (at least for me). The help files are not very extensive and mostly in german but you can download some public layout samples from other users and investigate them. Then, everything becomes easier.

The software allows you to simulate very faithfully any analog Märklin system.
The Locos stop and run automatically when signals change and so... Now I am able to check the automatic control of the layout.

Hope this review will be useful for somebody.
Regards,

José.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by jvroyo65
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 04 August 2020 16:49:01(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,425
excellent! thanks.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
User is suspended until 21/08/2020 21:50:24(UTC) TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 04 August 2020 17:01:26(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by: jvroyo65 Go to Quoted Post
Update on 3D Train Studio:

Well, the event management learning curve is a little hard (at least for me). The help files are not very extensive and mostly in german but you can download some public layout samples from other users and investigate them. Then, everything becomes easier.

The software allows you to simulate very faithfully any analog Märklin system.
The Locos stop and run automatically when signals change and so... Now I am able to check the automatic control of the layout.

Hope this review will be useful for somebody.
Regards,

José.


Are this the product you are writing about?

https://en.3d-modellbahn.de/

This shall be the 3D-Train-Studio you are talking about?

https://www.softpedia.co...on/3D-Train-Studio.shtml

This is an excerpt from the website 3D-Train-Studio:
"A complex and interesting application that enables you to create digital versions for your railway models and fully customize their appearance"

It is only telling you something about digital versions. Where do you read anything about an analogue controlling of your layout?
Offline jvroyo65  
#6 Posted : 04 August 2020 20:04:12(UTC)
jvroyo65

Spain   
Joined: 20/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: La Rioja, Logrono
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Are this the product you are writing about?

https://en.3d-modellbahn.de/

This shall be the 3D-Train-Studio you are talking about?

https://www.softpedia.co...on/3D-Train-Studio.shtml

This is an excerpt from the website 3D-Train-Studio:
"A complex and interesting application that enables you to create digital versions for your railway models and fully customize their appearance"

It is only telling you something about digital versions. Where do you read anything about an analogue controlling of your layout?


The first link is the correct one.
With "Digital" I think they refer to the computer version of your layout, analogue or not.



User is suspended until 21/08/2020 21:50:24(UTC) TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2020 21:01:26(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by: jvroyo65 Go to Quoted Post

The first link is the correct one.
With "Digital" I think they refer to the computer version of your layout, analogue or not.


Thank you for the clarification. For myself, simply and generally said, digital means a controlling by electronic impulse and with software. Analogue for me is a mechanical initiated impulse for solenoid articles. I do not see a possibility controlling a layout analogue with a computer. A computer is always only functioning digitally. Decades ago, when a computer was as big as a house, there were mechanically relays and punch cards in use. Well, but this is antigue and superseded.
Offline hxmiesa  
#8 Posted : 05 August 2020 00:17:49(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,928
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
For myself, simply and generally said, digital means a controlling by electronic impulse and with software. Analogue for me is a mechanical initiated impulse for solenoid articles. I do not see a possibility controlling a layout analogue with a computer. A computer is always only functioning digitally.

Seriously?!

The software in question is clearly for making a "virtual digital model" of *a* railroad layout.

-And for an actual physical model layout, my own layout is running analog locomotives controlled by 2 industrial computers ("PLC").
Yes, the PLCs activates elecrtical relays, which in turn switches the power on and off in sections of railroad tracks.

Also, I know of some members here who run their locos digitally, but controls the layout (points and signals) analogically.


Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2020 23:26:00(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 154
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
For myself, simply and generally said, digital means a controlling by electronic impulse and with software. Analogue for me is a mechanical initiated impulse for solenoid articles. I do not see a possibility controlling a layout analogue with a computer. A computer is always only functioning digitally.

Seriously?!

The software in question is clearly for making a "virtual digital model" of *a* railroad layout.

-And for an actual physical model layout, my own layout is running analog locomotives controlled by 2 industrial computers ("PLC").
Yes, the PLCs activates elecrtical relays, which in turn switches the power on and off in sections of railroad tracks.

Also, I know of some members here who run their locos digitally, but controls the layout (points and signals) analogically.


And I am running an analog layout with a "digital overlay" that controls the switches, signals, and some track power digitally. Feedbacks enable quite a bit of automation via Rocrail. Of course, digital track power is present, but it is only transmitted to K83/K84 devices.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
User is suspended until 21/08/2020 21:50:24(UTC) TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 07 August 2020 01:20:56(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

And I am running an analog layout with a "digital overlay" that controls the switches, signals, and some track power digitally. Feedbacks enable quite a bit of automation via Rocrail. Of course, digital track power is present, but it is only transmitted to K83/K84 devices.


Well, this is an interesting type of running a layout. Running locos analogue and the devices dgital! An "overlay" is not enough. You have to be very carefully seperating both typs of electric supplies. And you are loosing all advantages of a digital layout, like running several locos at the same time only with one controller. This is in analogue mode impossible, except you are using a catenary system and even then you need 2 controller for only 2 trains. I had such a layout running about 50 years ago too. I think it is pretty superseded. In the 21st century I decided to go digital, although I still do have this analogue layout including the M-tracks.BigGrin
Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 07 August 2020 11:58:15(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,928
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Well, this is an interesting type of running a layout. Running locos analogue and the devices dgital! An "overlay" is not enough. You have to be very carefully seperating both typs of electric supplies. And you are loosing all advantages of a digital layout, like running several locos at the same time only with one controller. This is in analogue mode impossible, except you are using a catenary system and even then you need 2 controller for only 2 trains. I had such a layout running about 50 years ago too. I think it is pretty superseded. In the 21st century I decided to go digital, although I still do have this analogue layout including the M-tracks.BigGrin

Actually, my way of running the trains is identical to Martti´s, EXCEPT that my digital control consist of PLCs instead of an ECOS, CS or Intellibox. And instead of ROCRAIL I use my own software.
So, the way my ANALOGUE trains are run, is by turning track-power on and off with industrial 24V relays. In some sections (before and after signals mostly) different voltages are switched in by the relays from different trafos.
The limitation is, that there can be only 1 trains in each section. How many trains do YOU run in each section? -Actually, you should never ever run more than one, just as in real life ;-)

My running concept is NOT about running X trains with X controllers.
My system runs a lot(*) of trains automatically on the main line.
I am restricted to run a small shunter on the side areas of the station. I can move locos around in the BW area, industrial area, etc...
I can make up trains at the station, and get them ready for main-line running. I then push a button, and wait until the system will allow me to "insert" it into the automated mainline, once this is free.
The manual part of the startion is divided into 5 sections, and the (only) two manual trafos/controllers that I have for manual running are assigned to these sections using Z-Schaltung.

JUST because a system is "analogue" does NOT mean that it is "simple" or identical to what you ran 50 years ago. It is a highly sophisticated system stretching the boundaries of analogue running into that of digital running. At the cost of more cabling and a lot more cutting and isolation of track sections.
Electrically my system is VERY robust; Relays are 24V with a failure rate of approx. ZERO, and the 0 of the 24Vdc is bridged to the 0 of the 16Vac track trafos, thereby allowing excellent use of isolated rails for 24V feedback.
The flimsy märklin solenoids are driven with 24Vdc too, giving much more torque. (Pulse is limited to 0,1s, and in 12 years none have burned. End-cutoff-contacts has been bridged, and so far none have failed! (knock-on-wood))



(*) Definition of "a lot"; The theoretical MAX would be around 8 trains actually MOVING at once, but that is crazy, and the normal is around 4. These are all run automatically between 2 shaddow-stations that allow the automated system to randomly select among 30 trains. (I am not counting branchline automation and shaddow-stations here!)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 07 August 2020 19:20:36(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,226
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Well, this is an interesting type of running a layout. Running locos analogue and the devices digital!


This is also how Denmark's biggest public H0 layout in Hadsten is running, having 80 trains
on just the German part of the layout: https://modelbaneeuropa.dk/

Also the the 0-scale layout in Slagelse ( Started in 1946! ): http://www.smjk.dk/

+ several z-scale layouts I know Cool

Come to think of it; most real railroads I know of is controlled this way; all signals and turnouts are controlled digitally,
and in each locomotive is a locomotive driver, running an analog locomotive.......... LOL

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I think it is pretty superseded.


It works quite well for DSB, DB, SNCF, NS etc. Laugh

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
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