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Offline applor  
#1 Posted : 29 June 2020 23:44:25(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi all,

I've come to realise my station kit (Klingenberg-Colmnitz) does not have an appropriate luggage store for the size of my station.
It has a small side building (labelled Expressgut) which may be its intended purpose but even so, it is just a small room with a single door and no loading ledge and not really suitable for my Preiserlings to collect luggage.

I have room a bit further down the main platform for an appropriately sized separate luggage collection so that is what I am wanting to do but I am struggling to find any manufacturers who make one.
The conclusion to that is either I am yet to find one or they simply didn't exist as a separate building and were only ever part of the main station structure.

Has anyone seen photos/evidence of a standalone luggage store in 50's Germany, or can provide an article number for one?
There are of course plenty of freight sheds available (lagerhaus) which is a separate facility used on a freight siding - though perhaps a small one could be adapted for my purpose.

Thanks.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 30 June 2020 00:34:33(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,403
could the luggage room be inside the main building?

Pick it up at a counter?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline applor  
#3 Posted : 30 June 2020 02:55:17(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
could the luggage room be inside the main building?

Pick it up at a counter?



That would not be practical because the luggage is taken to and from the train baggage car in the trolleys, so normally you have a dedicated loading platform/door for staff only to do this.

A clear example of this is the model for Wildbach station, you can see here on the right the dedicated area for luggage (baggage)
https://www.modellbahnun...ch-Vollmer-43512_b_0.JPG
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 04 July 2020 09:21:00(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Eric,

I believe that what Dale mentions is correct.
Passenger luggage was not freight and did not require loading docks.
The 4 wheeled carts used to carry passenger luggage remained on the station patform.
The smaller two wheeled trolleys could go inside the station building.
Passengers retrieved their luggage from the trolley or cart while it was on the platform.
Nobody hung around at stations.

Small parcels and wicker baskets were often carried by passenger rail.
For these and passenger baggage requiring storage for later pick-up, the cart was brought adjacent to the station masters, luggage or parcels offices and hand carried inside.
These facilities depended on the importance and or the size of the station.

If you think local - Ipswich and Toowoomba had separate station masters and parcels offices.
A station like Rosewood maybe only a station master office.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline PJMärklin  
#5 Posted : 04 July 2020 13:17:56(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,549
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi Eric,
I believe that what Dale mentions is correct.
Passenger luggage was not freight and did not require loading docks.
The 4 wheeled carts used to carry passenger luggage remained on the station patform.
The smaller two wheeled trolleys could go inside the station building.
Passengers retrieved their luggage from the trolley or cart while it was on the platform.
Nobody hung around at stations.

Small parcels and wicker baskets were often carried by passenger rail.
For these and passenger baggage requiring storage for later pick-up, the cart was brought adjacent to the station masters, luggage or parcels offices and hand carried inside.
These facilities depended on the importance and or the size of the station. ...
Kimball



Hello Kimball,Smile

I believe what you say is absolutely correct at "Altbach" , on my layout OhMyGod :


UserPostedImage


(at least I have found it is so on the service platform of Altbach station Blushing) :


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
The smaller two wheeled trolleys could go inside the station building.
:


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage



Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
The 4 wheeled carts used to carry passenger luggage remained on the station platform.
:


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


You can see a luggage cart here (and an empty one in the foreground) on the platform at Innsbruck where we paused on our way from Zürich to Wien in the mid 1980's:


UserPostedImage


Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
the cart was brought adjacent to the station masters, luggage or parcels offices
:


UserPostedImage


Ordnung on the Station Platforms ist sehr important !!ThumpUp LOL


Regards,

PhilipBigGrin
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Offline applor  
#6 Posted : 05 July 2020 07:18:45(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

Passenger luggage was not freight and did not require loading docks.


That would depend on the size of the station and how much traffic it had. If a large amount of luggage was being loaded and offloaded then a loading dock makes that easier.
Such as shown in the station link I provided.
That is all I am suggesting, though as a separate building.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

The 4 wheeled carts used to carry passenger luggage remained on the station platform.


Perhaps you could explain this better for me. I appreciate the carts don't go inside the station but the luggage they brought back from the baggage car needs to be offloaded.
This would be the luggage store, they would not just offload it onto the platform to sit unattended for passengers to help themselves.
Or do you suggest they are carried inside by hand?
In which case I would think as per my above statement that the process would be OK for small stations but not larger ones.
Staff would be constantly blocking the doors carrying luggage in and out, a loading dock as shown makes the process far more efficient.
For long distance trains you always have a luggage counter for drop off and pickup, such as Traveltrain here in Brisbane and like you see at every airport.



I had also posted on Stummi forums and I have received this reply from a member:
Luggage topic:

In small stations were luggage and express parcels always in one place, the GEPA ( Luggage äck- A bfertigung) summarized and often located next to the ticket office.

At larger stations, however, it was also possible that the luggage and express goods were in separate places, such as in Cologne Hbf or Dortmund Hbf, for the simple reason that the volume of express goods there was much higher than that of luggage. Because luggage is very "seasonally dependent" the classic vacation times (summer / winter).

The luggage storage was usually also in the Gepa but could also be accommodated quite separately in large cities such as Berlin or Munich etc., since there was no transport here, only storage of things.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 05 July 2020 22:42:19(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Eric

With all that has been said (including from Stummis), your original post makes perfect sense. The small doorway is perfectly adequate for express freight (parcels, baskets) etc
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I've come to realise my station kit (Klingenberg-Colmnitz) does not have an appropriate luggage store for the size of my station.
It has a small side building (labelled Expressgut) which may be its intended purpose but even so, it is just a small room with a single door and no loading ledge and not really suitable for my Preiserlings to collect luggage.

The example you gave of the loading dock area at Wildbach (Vollmer) would be typical of stations where a large amount of less-than-carload freight was handled, inlcuding the Express. If they stored passenger luggage, it would be unusual becaue most passengers leave the train and the station immediately with luggage. Prior to about 1970 if the train had a baggage van, the passenger waited at the station exit for the 4 wheeled cart to be hauled from the van and then retrieved his/her luggage directly off the cart.

The 4 wheeled carts were very much in evidence at stations worldwide, as shown in the photo of Vollmer 38646, and as shown in Philips modelling.
The older variants of these had iron wheels, and were sometimes 2 wheeled like a barrow with handles. I have models but not sure where they came from.
My estimate is that prior to 1960, the use of powered tractors to haul a train of carts might have been limited to very large stations like Sydney Central.
I don't remember seeing them at South Brisbane Interstate.
Vollmer station carts


regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 05 July 2020 22:54:17(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
...


Hello Kimball,Smile

I believe what you say is absolutely correct at "Altbach" , on my layout OhMyGod

(at least I have found it is so on the service platform of Altbach station Blushing) :
...

You can see a luggage cart here (and an empty one in the foreground) on the platform at Innsbruck where we paused on our way from Zürich to Wien in the mid 1980's:

UserPostedImage

......


Ordnung on the Station Platforms ist sehr important !!ThumpUp LOL


Regards,

PhilipBigGrin


Nice modelling Philip.
Well you certainly have that subject covered.
Your layout has a lot of fine detail and I do much the same on a smaller scale.
It is quite pleasurable creating these "cameo" scenes.
Thank you.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline DaleSchultz  
#9 Posted : 06 July 2020 00:24:48(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,403
I suspect that the only items that had to be transferred form the cart to a building are the few items that the passengers forgot to collect before leaving the station.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline applor  
#10 Posted : 06 July 2020 03:52:58(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Great thanks guys, I am satisfied I have no need for a separate luggage store then.

I had already inquired in an older Stummi thread regarding platform details and luggage carts - you can read it here if you want:
https://www.stummiforum....ic.php?f=35&t=176748

I have the Preiser 10256 Electric cart known as 'Bleichert's "lizard" for my Wentüngen-Ost station which were built from 1920.
My Holzberg branchline station will be all small hand carts.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 06 July 2020 11:40:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
The 4 wheeled carts used to carry passenger luggage remained on the station patform.
Is that so?
In era IV I only saw them driving between the building and the luggage car.

Nowadays luggage left on the platform triggers an evacuation by a bomb disposal team.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Prior to about 1970 if the train had a baggage van, the passenger waited at the station exit for the 4 wheeled cart to be hauled from the van and then retrieved his/her luggage directly off the cart.
I never saw such a scene.
At Cologne central station, there are service platforms without passengers.
Restaurant cars and luggage cars were/are serviced from the other side, out of sight from the passengers. Luggage had to be retrieved at the counter.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#12 Posted : 07 July 2020 01:40:47(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
...
In era IV I only saw the 4 wheeled carts driving between the building and the luggage car.

Nowadays luggage left on the platform triggers an evacuation by a bomb disposal team.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Prior to about 1970 if the train had a baggage van, the passenger waited at the station exit for the 4 wheeled cart to be hauled from the van and then retrieved his/her luggage directly off the cart.
I never saw such a scene.
At Cologne central station, there are service platforms without passengers.
Restaurant cars and luggage cars were/are serviced from the other side, out of sight from the passengers. Luggage had to be retrieved at the counter.



Hi Tom,
I think we are talking about different eras.
Erics'layout is era IIIa.

My comments are based on experience with Australian trains and stations because I learned that operations anywhere are much the same.
I don't remember seeing trains of 4 wheeled baggage carts until about the 1980s, by which time most long distance travellers were using airplanes.
By then the railway station operations had evolved.

Cologne could be equated to Sydney Central. These are large stations with there own logistical procedures not necessarily replicated elsewhere.
I was impressed by Cologne in late 2018 when I broke my journey for a few hours to see the cathedral.
A luggage carousel system somehow took care of my two suitcases in a labrynth of revolving cages (for which I paid a few Euros) and magically I was able to retrieve them at a different location within the station hours later.
Super!

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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