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Offline kehdi737w  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2020 18:33:40(UTC)
kehdi737w

Switzerland   
Joined: 19/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 25
Hello Everyone,

How can I operate K track turnouts digitally with CS3, using underfloor system? Which decoder do I need? I only found one for C track, but not for K.

Thanks in advance :)

Stay safe 👍
Offline French_Fabrice  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2020 19:06:38(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Lyon, France
Hello,

K track turnouts use engine 7549 or 75491.
There is no embedded decoder below the track for K track, as they are for C track.
Thus, you need to have an external decoder (able to drive 4 turnouts), like a M83 ref 60832/60831 if you wish to stay with Marklin.
You may also find equivalent decoders at Viessmann (ref 5211 -old design) or new design have same function as M83 (ref 5280).
Other alternative may be found at LDT (S-DEC-4 family).

Last thing: the underfloor mechanism 7548 is not very reliable.
A reliable solution is to go for servos, produced by ESU + a servo decoder... but this is more complicated to setup and only valid for permanent layouts.

Cheers
Fabrice
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
Offline kehdi737w  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2020 20:16:05(UTC)
kehdi737w

Switzerland   
Joined: 19/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

K track turnouts use engine 7549 or 75491.
There is no embedded decoder below the track for K track, as they are for C track.
Thus, you need to have an external decoder (able to drive 4 turnouts), like a M83 ref 60832/60831 if you wish to stay with Marklin.
You may also find equivalent decoders at Viessmann (ref 5211 -old design) or new design have same function as M83 (ref 5280).
Other alternative may be found at LDT (S-DEC-4 family).

Last thing: the underfloor mechanism 7548 is not very reliable.
A reliable solution is to go for servos, produced by ESU + a servo decoder... but this is more complicated to setup and only valid for permanent layouts.

Cheers
Fabrice


Hi Fabrice,

Many thanks for fast and detailed reply. I am planning a permanent layout with K track. I might go for the ESU underfloor option. Just for a quick understanding, if I install ESU servos and servo module, can I then connect this ESU servo module to the CS3 ( i guess via M83 still? ) ?

Thanks,
Marco
Offline French_Fabrice  
#4 Posted : 24 June 2020 20:58:38(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Marco,

ESU servos need to be driven by a special decoder, also produced by ESU (other brands exist also, but I'm familiar with ESU).
This special decoder replaces the M83. M83 is not able to drive servos...It is only for dual coil engines

ESU servos ref 51804: http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...t/precision-servo-motor/
ESU servo Switch Pilot Servo v2 decoder ref 51822: http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...t/switchpilot-servo-v20/
You may also need cable extension, from servo to decoder, ref 51810
Go to ESU web site and download the doc for switch pilot servo v2.

Then, there are a number of things which are a bit tricky, or at least need some attention.

1) How would I connect the servo lever + the piano wire to the turnout ? the most difficult in my opinion...
2) How would I program the ESU decoder ? very easy if you have an ESU Lokprogrammer (I know, another investment...)

About 1) with K track turnout, you have at least 2 possibilities :
a) the one I use: I use only the upper part of mechanism 7548 (top part), then thru a hole 10mm diameter, the piano wire goes into the lever provided by 7548 kit
b) other option: you may modify the handheld lever of the turnout by inserting the piano wire from below. Never went that way, but I've seen it on some layouts.

About 2) either you program the CV of ESU decoder with your command station (with CS2 it is extremely boring, with CS3 I hope it is easier) in order to adjust the servo movement, or you buy an ESU lokprogrammer and it is very easy with the dedicated software -valid for all ESU programmable devices, including loco decoders.

There are a number of layouts here which use ESU servos. See applor's layout, probably river6109's layout, possibly others (JohnJeanB ?) and my layout.

If you want to see some shots of servo setting, look there: https://www.marklin-user...-Left-sidings#post598104
and there: https://www.marklin-user...-Left-sidings#post598730

Last advice: Just test servo setup on a workbench before going to the final layout... At the beginning, it is not obvious... When you know how to do, it is rather easy, but you need to be very precise...

Cheers
fabrice

Edited by user 25 June 2020 12:26:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kehdi737w  
#5 Posted : 24 June 2020 21:20:34(UTC)
kehdi737w

Switzerland   
Joined: 19/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hello Marco,

ESU servos need to be driven by a special decoder, also produced by ESU (other brands exist also, but I'm familiar with ESU).
This special decoder replaces the M83. M83 is not able to drive servos...It is only for dual coil engines

ESU servos ref 51804: http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...t/precision-servo-motor/
ESU servo Switch Pilot Servo v2 decoder ref 51822: http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...t/switchpilot-servo-v20/
You may also need cable extension, from servo to decoder, ref 51810
Go to ESU web site and download the doc for switch pilot servo v2.

Then, there are a number of things which are a bit tricky, or at least need some attention.

1) How would I connect the servo lever + the piano wire to the turnout ? the most difficult in my opinion...
2) How would I program the ESU decoder ? very easy if you have an ESU Lokprogrammer (I know, another investment...)

About 1) with K track turnout, you have at least 2 possibilities :
a) the one I use: I use only the upper part of mechanism 7548 (top part), then thru a hole 10mm diameter, the piano wire goes into the lever provided by 7548 kit
b) other option: you may modify the handheld lever of the turnout by inserting the piano wire from below. Never went that way, but I've seen it on some layouts.

About 2) either you program the CV of ESU decoder with your command station (with CS2 it is extremely boring, with CS3 I hope it is easier) in order to adjust the servo movement, or you by an ESU lokprogrammer and it is very easy with the dedicated software -valid for all ESU programmable devices, including loco decoders.

There are a number of layouts here which use ESU servos. See applor's layout, probably river6109's layout, possibly others (JohnJeanB ?) and my layout.

If you want to see some shots of servo setting, look there: https://www.marklin-user...-Left-sidings#post598104
and there: https://www.marklin-user...-Left-sidings#post598730

Last advice: Just test servo setup on a workbench before going to the final layout... At the beginning, it is not obvious... When you know how to do, it is rather easy, but you need to be very precise...

Cheers
fabrice


Hi,

Thats all understood. Many thanks for great detailed description. So if I buy and program the ESU decoders with ESU Lokprogrammer, then can I activate the servos from the CS3? Or only via a specific ESU control station?

Just to understand which type of investment I need to make.

Thanks,
Marco

Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 24 June 2020 21:48:45(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,395
as Fabrice says the underfloor mounting mechanisms are awful.

Another solution is to use the Märklin switch motors but mount them above the surface but upside down.

see https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2004/12/switch-motor-modification-thread.html

for how that can look and how you can actuate it manually when you need to.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline French_Fabrice  
#7 Posted : 24 June 2020 21:58:10(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Marco,

I think there is no trouble to drive ESU servo decoder from the CS3.
I say "I think" because I have a CS2, not a CS3.
Normally no problem, because the ESU decoder handles both MM and DCC protocols, and CS2/3 are multi-protocol central stations.

In my own case, I've programmed the ESU decoder with DCC protocol, starting at address 769 (thus page 48 in the "keyboard" section of the CS). As these addresses are greater than 320 (higher limit for MM protocol), the CS is configured with all protocols (MM, DCC and mfx for locos)
Thus, each address of turnout driven by servo (starting at 769 and greater), use DCC protocol and "old decoder type" in the CS, and there is no problem.

In summary, all CV tuning is done with the lokprogrammer locally (I have an extremely long couple of power wires for testing from my PC - lokprogrammer- to the layout without the power provided to the layout), and when all servos CV are ready, I change the power wires to be connected to the layout, and I configure each turnout connected to a servo + ESU decoder as a DCC turnout with adapted address on the CS.

Don't be afraid: no problem with the CS2 (and very probably with the CS3) to declare a DCC turnout.

Cheers
Fabrice
Offline applor  
#8 Posted : 25 June 2020 07:38:08(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,491
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I can also confirm that ESU servos mounted underboard with the cover from the marklin 7548 is really the only way to go. Installation options are quite flexible and the servos are 100% reliable.
I have done this for all my visible turnouts using the Switchpilot servo 2 decoder (4 servos per decoder)
I use the standard Marklin switches for the hidden areas.

You can see them installed in my layout thread.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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