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Offline kumarvartak  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2013 12:03:47(UTC)
kumarvartak


Joined: 25/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 97
Location: India
Dear all,
I am from India and have Marklin HO analog sets from the 1955/1965 period. I am in the process of automating my layout and have started connecting the points , Double slip points and signals.
I am attempting this for the first time, and have so far operated it with manual points and never used signals.
What are single and double Solenoid devices with reference to Marklin Points and signals. Are Signals and points available with both single and double solenoids, and if so how do you identify one from the other. What are the advantages and disadvantages of single and double solenoid devices.
Some one mentioned in my home town that only the Double slip point is fitted with double solenoids and also all signals. the other points left and right are fitted only with single Solenoids is this correct
I mention this as I have read on the net that the same control panel 7072, cannot be connected to two devices one single and one double Solenoid,separate control panels should be used..
I am a complete novice at all this, any help will be appreciated.
Thank you
Kumar Pune India
Offline amartinezv  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2013 12:55:32(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 279
Location: Madrid,
Hello

Really all the electromagnetic devices from marklin are made with double solenoids, points and signals, it is very easy you have a yellow wire for both solenoids and two blue wires, one for each solenoid, the connectios are easy:

Trafo--yellow plug---yellow wire...point or signal---two blue wires--- control 7072--brown wire----brown plug trafo

Some signals have 3 solenoids (this is 3 blue wires)

In current days, there are also double slip (C and K track) with 2 double solenoids.

Hope this help

Best regards

Antonio Martínez
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline kumarvartak  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2013 13:55:52(UTC)
kumarvartak


Joined: 25/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 97
Location: India
Thanks, but I have some points and double slip points with solid cenetr rail, a fiend says that they are single solenoid Marklin 3600 series do you agree.
Regards,
Kumar
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2013 13:57:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,749
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post
In current days, there are also double slip (C and K track) with 2 double solenoids.
Only one solenoid with C track, but two with K track.

Thus K track double slips give you more flexibility (it can be straight for trains coming from one side and round for trains from the other side).
C track is like M track: all four tongues move at the same time.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2013 22:37:25(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kumarvartak Go to Quoted Post
Dear all,
I am from India and have Marklin HO analog sets from the 1955/1965 period. I am in the process of automating my layout and have started connecting the points , Double slip points and signals.
I am attempting this for the first time, and have so far operated it with manual points and never used signals.
What are single and double Solenoid devices with reference to Marklin Points and signals. Are Signals and points available with both single and double solenoids, and if so how do you identify one from the other. What are the advantages and disadvantages of single and double solenoid devices.
Some one mentioned in my home town that only the Double slip point is fitted with double solenoids and also all signals. the other points left and right are fitted only with single Solenoids is this correct
I mention this as I have read on the net that the same control panel 7072, cannot be connected to two devices one single and one double Solenoid,separate control panels should be used..
I am a complete novice at all this, any help will be appreciated.
Thank you
Kumar Pune India


Hi Kumar,

As others have said, in most cases you will find your turnouts and signals to be the double-solenoid type.

Simply this means there are two possible states for the device, with one solenoid to control each. In the case of most of the turnouts and signals there will be two BLUE wires from the device, one having a GREEN plug and the other a RED plug. Green means Go, or 'Straight', while Red indicates Stop or for turnouts, the Branch or curved aspect.

Some signals have a third mode, usually with an Orange plug.

A good example of a single-solenoid device is the Uncoupling track. This can only have two states, On (Raised) or Off (lowered). Same thing with one of the Barrier Arm crossings. On means to lower the barrier arms, Off releases the holding power and the Arms are raised by the counter-weight on the end of the arm.

Some of the very early M-track turnouts (solid center rail) were also single-solenoid, and if I recall, these worked something like the reverse unit, where each pulse of the solenoid would change the direction, but I don't have one to refer to - someone else can clarify but those units did only have a single solenoid wire.

If you do not have it yet, I recommend downloading the older Signal Manual here.....

http://lctm.atarrabi.org...1_Model_Signals_Book.pdf

Hope this helps - you'll need to post some photo's of your layout as you start to make progress with it, and especially if you manage to take it to display, it would be a rare sight in India I'm sure Cool

Regards

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline old toot  
#6 Posted : 13 June 2013 02:44:08(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
Hi Kumar
greetings form Christchurch New zealand
The double solenoid is generally found on a semaphore signal with two moving arms
so each arm has a solenoid to make it move up and down seperately
the point are normal one which has the yellow power going in the centre
and the two blue wires one each end makes the metal in the middle
go from left to right and being connected to the points inner works
that turns into straight and curve settings
Normally if you have a Marklin signal or point in the package box there will be a
leaflet showing how they are setup
Normally you run the power from your yellow plug on your blue/white transformer
to the point and then the two blue ones come back to a Blue or now white point box
either 72720 or old blue 70729 which can control up to four points
From the side of those is a plug connection which you normally use a brown cable
and plugs each end that go from the point box back to the Brown earth plug
on your transformer and as you push the green or red buttons you are earthing
back either to make it the contact
have fun
bryan old toot nz dealers
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline amartinezv  
#7 Posted : 13 June 2013 12:54:10(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 279
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: kumarvartak Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, but I have some points and double slip points with solid cenetr rail, a fiend says that they are single solenoid Marklin 3600 series do you agree.
Regards,
Kumar


Hello

In my opinion, if you have only one blue wire you have a single solenoid device, 2 blue wires means double solenoid device.

Best regards

Antonio Martínez
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline kumarvartak  
#8 Posted : 16 June 2013 10:55:14(UTC)
kumarvartak


Joined: 25/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 97
Location: India
Thanks for your inputs, I have just put up another message ref switch and contact rails.. Please go through that and help out if you can.
Kumar
India
Offline Bones  
#9 Posted : 21 June 2020 02:14:03(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Queensland
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kumarvartak Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, but I have some points and double slip points with solid cenetr rail, a fiend says that they are single solenoid Marklin 3600 series do you agree.
Regards,
Kumar


Hello

In my opinion, if you have only one blue wire you have a single solenoid device, 2 blue wires means double solenoid device.

Best regards

Antonio Martínez

Wrong the solenoids use AC and the solenoid is wired in such a way that power applied to either end of the wiring moves the steel bar that actuates the point it uses the properties of
EMF ( Electro Motive Force ) buy applying either a negative or positive current to either end it causes the magnetic force to repel or attract the steel bar

It only depends on how the solenoid is wired

So a double solenoid item is exactly that it has two solenoids and a single solenoid has only one solenoid

Offline DaleSchultz  
#10 Posted : 21 June 2020 03:35:41(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,395
I agree with Antonio's responses. Spot on.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 21 June 2020 04:21:46(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,409
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

Hi Kumar,

As others have said, in most cases you will find your turnouts and signals to be the double-solenoid type.

Simply this means there are two possible states for the device, with one solenoid to control each. In the case of most of the turnouts and signals there will be two BLUE wires from the device, one having a GREEN plug and the other a RED plug. Green means Go, or 'Straight', while Red indicates Stop or for turnouts, the Branch or curved aspect.

Some signals have a third mode, usually with an Orange plug.

A good example of a single-solenoid device is the Uncoupling track. This can only have two states, On (Raised) or Off (lowered). Same thing with one of the Barrier Arm crossings. On means to lower the barrier arms, Off releases the holding power and the Arms are raised by the counter-weight on the end of the arm.

Some of the very early M-track turnouts (solid center rail) were also single-solenoid, and if I recall, these worked something like the reverse unit, where each pulse of the solenoid would change the direction, but I don't have one to refer to - someone else can clarify but those units did only have a single solenoid wire.

If you do not have it yet, I recommend downloading the older Signal Manual here.....

http://lctm.atarrabi.org...1_Model_Signals_Book.pdf

Hope this helps - you'll need to post some photo's of your layout as you start to make progress with it, and especially if you manage to take it to display, it would be a rare sight in India I'm sure Cool

Regards

Steve


Hello Steve,

your link is broken. Set another link to the signal book #0341

0341 maerklin-0341-model-signals-en.pdf (13,203kb) downloaded 10 time(s).

and attach some further manuals quite helpful for analogue Maerklin H0 railroad.

0340 - Signals Manual - (Eng).pdf (1,568kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

Maerklin Miniature Railway Handbook.pdf (17,502kb) downloaded 387 time(s).

Maerklin Service Manual.pdf (14,566kb) downloaded 405 time(s).

Regards

Wolfgang
Online kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 21 June 2020 16:33:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,144
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Hello Steve,

your link is broken. Set another link to the signal book #0341



This has happened because Bones has replied to a seven year old thread. Not generally a good idea to do as he hasn't provided any useful information - in fact the only bit if information he did provide is incorrect, the solenoids are not limited to AC, it is quite permissible to use DC to actuate them as this is what any digital decoder does.



thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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