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Offline BR01097  
#1 Posted : 13 September 2018 23:09:10(UTC)
BR01097

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Location: Denver, Colo. USA
Some layouts feature a DB Railbus towing not only its own trailers or ski wagon, but conventional boxcars as well. Is there precedent in the proto-type?BR 795-3.jpg

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Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.




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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 14 September 2018 07:48:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,816
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: BR01097 Go to Quoted Post
Is there precedent in the proto-type?
I don't know.
BR 795 does not have a standard hook nor does it have standard brake hoses. And the motor does not have much HP.
I never heard of any regular service with a BR 795 and extra cars.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 14 September 2018 08:14:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,816
Location: DE-NW
A link to the original site with the picture:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:795-3.jpg

The photo was taken 1993 in a railway museum. It was published under the GNU license and the CC license. Uploading the image to other sites without proper credits could impose a violation of copyrights.
Without a link to the original site, a lot of photo-related information is lost.

Trains standing in a railway museum are exactly that: prototype examples for trains standing in a railway museum.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 15 September 2018 01:53:38(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,449
Originally Posted by: BR01097 Go to Quoted Post
Some layouts feature a DB Railbus towing not only its own trailers or ski wagon, but conventional boxcars as well. Is there precedent in the proto-type?


Yes and no.

As H0 wrote correctly the Railbus was too weak by its one engine to pull more than 3 coaches beside the motor coach. Also it did not have the standard used couplers. So no other wagon like boxcars could be added. This was appropriate for the VT 95 and therefore the VT 98 was developed.

The VT 98 had more power because of now 2 Diesel inside and regular standard screw couplings. Also it got better breakes and a reinforced main frame. This Railbus now could pull boxcars and regular passenger cars too. What happened sometimes. But more often it was hanged after other trains to get pulled by them.

If you are interested in more information see the link

http://www.wittis-modellbahn.de/Retter_Nb_1.pdf

But you have to translate it

https://www.deepl.com/translator

or you may read more here at Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railbus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uerdingen_railbus

If you want to see more Railbus running, here are a few videos

https://www.youtube.com/...C3%BCrdinger+schienenbus

In Germany are still some sceduled lines by the Railbus available.

Regards

TEEWolf
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#5 Posted : 14 February 2020 14:40:33(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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As TEEWolf mentioned the 98/798 had "More Power" (as Tim the Tool Man would say) and here is a nifty short video of one being pressed into service: Smile However, as HO mentioned, the 95...not so much possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuadpO_WfAc

And ein still-leben from bahnbilder:

https://www.bahnbilder.d...inem-gueterwagen-am.html

Jimmy
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#6 Posted : 14 February 2020 15:46:30(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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My own personal confusion comes quite easily from Mother M's own 3016 with regular couplers - I could put anything I want onto that precious little gem, but...prototypical for the VT 95 Wink ? (It could happen in my little world Sneaky )

Jimmy
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 14 February 2020 16:29:11(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,711
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
My own personal confusion comes quite easily from Mother M's own 3016 with regular couplers - I could put anything I want onto that precious little gem, but...prototypical for the VT 95 Wink ? (It could happen in my little world Sneaky )

Jimmy


Actually the 3016 doesn't have regular couplers. Although they can be made to couple to Relex couplers they don't normally work together. The loop goes down instead of up, if you know what I mean?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#8 Posted : 14 February 2020 16:37:42(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Ray, Thanks! I was unaware of that little functional anomaly...I actually do not have a 3016, I was going off pictures, again with the just looking at the pictures.Blushing (Kind of a 'force fit?')

Jimmy
Jimmy T
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 14 February 2020 17:47:08(UTC)
RayF

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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Ray, Thanks! I was unaware of that little functional anomaly...I actually do not have a 3016, I was going off pictures, again with the just looking at the pictures.Blushing (Kind of a 'force fit?')

Jimmy


Yeah! If you lift the end of the railbus you can get the loop over the hook on a Relex coupler. I've done it myself and pretended that my railbus had been modified to pull a couple of 4 wheel coaches for my imaginary branch line. It looked very strange though, as the railbus is so much lower than ordinary stock!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#10 Posted : 14 February 2020 17:57:55(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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I guess it would look something like this? (I know it is the cat work car, but the same basic thing?)

UserPostedImage

and that has all the cat equipment on the roof so it is higher than a regular 98...
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#11 Posted : 14 February 2020 18:20:27(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Even I, with my rather prodigious capacity for "Voluntary Suspension of Disbelief", am having a little trouble with this VT 98 from bahnbilder:

UserPostedImage

Blink

might just be sitting there, but...
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline TEEWolf  
#12 Posted : 14 February 2020 18:26:39(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,449
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Ray, Thanks! I was unaware of that little functional anomaly...I actually do not have a 3016, I was going off pictures, again with the just looking at the pictures.Blushing (Kind of a 'force fit?')

Jimmy


See the spar parts sheet #24 for the coupler.

http://www.maerklin-samm...016/03016_explo_0000.pdf

a bit more infos

http://www.maerklin-samm...omotiven/03016/03016.htm
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Offline Markus Schild  
#13 Posted : 15 February 2020 09:18:08(UTC)
Markus Schild

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Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Even I, with my rather prodigious capacity for "Voluntary Suspension of Disbelief", am having a little trouble with this VT 98 from bahnbilder:

UserPostedImage

Blink

might just be sitting there, but...


Hi Jimmy,

This is a VB oder VS, not a VT. At the VT you would see the motor under the car.

Regards

Markus
Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#14 Posted : 15 February 2020 12:39:23(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Thanks Markus ThumpUp I guess even bahnbilder can make a mistake...just like me Wink

Jimmy
Jimmy T
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Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 15 February 2020 12:52:46(UTC)
river6109

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A little gem from my layout

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#16 Posted : 15 February 2020 13:37:04(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Brilliant river! I love it! Drool

Jimmy
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline TEEWolf  
#17 Posted : 15 February 2020 16:39:43(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,449
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Markus ThumpUp I guess even bahnbilder can make a mistake...just like me Wink

Jimmy


Why shall the picture be a mistake?

VT was the railbus Triebwagen
VB was the railbus Beiwagen
VS was the railbus Steuerwagen. The pretty early version of a cab forward control car.

BTW it must be a VB, because it does not show wipers at the front screen.

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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#18 Posted : 15 February 2020 18:41:05(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Well, perhaps not so much "mistake" as "misnomer" as Bahnbilder has separate entries for VT, VB, and VS...Blushing (not really my call as to where any particular picture ends up, I guess, it merely added to my already confused state Blink and in that particular instance it merely says Ein VT 98 der Kasbachtalbahn in Linz am Rhein ) and given the picture would any of the VT/S/B 98 be taking on a string of wagens as that, even empties (in prototype)? Confused Confused

By the way, I do recognise that I have strayed farther and farther from the original intent of the thread (VT 95) for which I profusely apologize...Blushing , but to me this VT series has been a small puzzle which you all are helping me to understand. Hearty "Thanks!" to all!
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline TEEWolf  
#19 Posted : 16 February 2020 04:49:10(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,449
Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Go to Quoted Post
Well, perhaps not so much "mistake" as "misnomer" as Bahnbilder has separate entries for VT, VB, and VS...Blushing (not really my call as to where any particular picture ends up, I guess, it merely added to my already confused state Blink and in that particular instance it merely says Ein VT 98 der Kasbachtalbahn in Linz am Rhein ) and given the picture would any of the VT/S/B 98 be taking on a string of wagens as that, even empties (in prototype)? Confused Confused

By the way, I do recognise that I have strayed farther and farther from the original intent of the thread (VT 95) for which I profusely apologize...Blushing , but to me this VT series has been a small puzzle which you all are helping me to understand. Hearty "Thanks!" to all!


Not really, because a VT 98 is just a VT 95 plus. Stronger motor and standard couplers, but the railbus remaind.

V stands for Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine). Although a Diesel loco has a similar Diesel engine inside, but these engines were and are developed especially for trains. The railbus had a truck Diesel engine from Buessing (today it is MAN) inside. Therefore the V.

As mentioned before T stands for Triebwagen means the car with the motor underneath.

B stands for Beiwagen. This was just a car and only for people transportation without any technical train function.

S was the Steuerwagen. The same as the Wendezüge, these cab forward cars, have today.
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Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 16 February 2020 10:30:50(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
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Posts: 3,247
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
V stands for Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine).


I don't know if this is correct or not; but it doesn't make sense to me Confused

Why would you call it a "Verbrennungsmotor-Beiwagen" or "Verbrennungsmotor-Steurwagen" if there's no engine? Blink

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 16 February 2020 19:02:43(UTC)
river6109

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Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
V stands for Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine).


I don't know if this is correct or not; but it doesn't make sense to me Confused

Why would you call it a "Verbrennungsmotor-Beiwagen" or "Verbrennungsmotor-Steurwagen" if there's no engine? Blink

Per.

Cool



If it is correct what TEEWolf wrote it is understandable: how else would you describe it ? if you don't include the V and just mention the B or S, I assume because it is related to the VT and the T stands for Triebwagen it would be naturally in the German language to leave the V and replace the T with either the B or S., whether or not it stood on its own e.g. VB or VS is a question hopefully some one can answer. I would rather think it was VT/B or VT/B/S or VT/S

John

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Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 16 February 2020 20:09:36(UTC)
Purellum

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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
If it is correct what TEEWolf wrote it is understandable


I think it's correct; i just find it funny / not logical BigGrin

And when you then think of Arbeitstriebwagen, Posttriebwagen, Gepäcktriebwagen and Gütertriebwagen, it gets even more confusing Confused

It must be quite hard to be Lokführer in an Arbeitstriebwagen..................... BigGrin Laugh LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#23 Posted : 16 February 2020 21:29:09(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
And then the little VB 141 anhänger 2-axle trailer

UserPostedImage

from https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=36049

(Whisper Mode On: maybe the "V" being a kind of overall a category for 'Verbrennungsmotor' and anything with a "V" can be used with anything else with a "V"?? Whisper Mode Off)
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#24 Posted : 16 February 2020 22:47:20(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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Posts: 309
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
And our own "alma mater" has helped us along (although with the "98" version) in Z 88313:

UserPostedImage

and here is another short discussion on RoG Forum with a few prototype pictures:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/...a-schienenbus-t7179.html

I have seen a few photos of what looks like a VT pulling a few wagons, and then the following photo shows a helper lok which was out of sight in the first photo (usually a 212 or similar, which leads me to believe they may be using the VT in its VSteuerwagen application).

As Alice would say, curiouser and curiouser...Blink
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; KLVM; Gauguin+Van Gogh; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 17 February 2020 04:14:32(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,449
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
If it is correct what TEEWolf wrote it is understandable


I think it's correct; i just find it funny / not logical BigGrin

And when you then think of Arbeitstriebwagen, Posttriebwagen, Gepäcktriebwagen and Gütertriebwagen, it gets even more confusing Confused

It must be quite hard to be Lokführer in an Arbeitstriebwagen..................... BigGrin Laugh LOL

Per.

Cool


Well on the first sight it is confusing, even to me. So the VT was not named by the type of motor. I think now it is named by the place of the motor combined with the type of train. V is the Diesel class and T is Triebwagen and so on as above stated. Means the motor is built in or under a car for a "closed" train, like the VT 11.5, the German luxury train TEE. See here at Wikipedia in an overview of the German loco classes and its name changes in 1968.

https://de.wikipedia.org...der_Deutschen_Bundesbahn

and the systematic of the DR/DB locomotive classification

https://de.wikipedia.org...der_Deutschen_Reichsbahn

Well, Posttriebwagen, Gütertriebwagen etc., never exists because these special cars were always connected or trailered with a loco in front of the complete train.
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Offline H0  
#26 Posted : 17 February 2020 09:36:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,816
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
V stands for Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine).


I don't know if this is correct or not; but it doesn't make sense to me Confused

Why would you call it a "Verbrennungsmotor-Beiwagen" or "Verbrennungsmotor-Steurwagen" if there's no engine? Blink
The V stands for Verbrennungsmotor.

A Silberling control car can be configured for use with Diesel trains or for use with electric trains - but does not support both at the same time. Different cable connection, different motor control. It can be reconfigured at the BW.

A VB has the cable connection for Diesel trains. So yes, it makes some sense. I assume it could not be used between an ETA and and ESA because the cable configuration does not match.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#27 Posted : 18 February 2020 09:41:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,218
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
If it is correct what TEEWolf wrote it is understandable


I think it's correct; i just find it funny / not logical BigGrin

And when you then think of Arbeitstriebwagen, Posttriebwagen, Gepäcktriebwagen and Gütertriebwagen, it gets even more confusing Confused

It must be quite hard to be Lokführer in an Arbeitstriebwagen..................... BigGrin Laugh LOL

Per.

Cool


One takes words as you've learned them and never give it another thought unless you analyze them and find them somewhat confusing especially people who translate it into English.

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