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Offline rrf  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2020 14:23:56(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello Friends,

My 37068 BR80 Museum Lok arrived last Saturday. Yesterday I put it on the part of my layout where I use 72442 Braking Modules, to control track blocks and a station. When the BR80 came to the first red signal / module it decelerated and stopped as expected. It halted prior to the "Safety" section, so its headlamps were still on.

When the signal / module went green again, the lok would not move. The lok still responded to all digital commands (Telex couplers, sounds & lights). Yet, no matter which movement control I tried from my CS3 (direction & speed), the lok ignored it.

I re-booted the CS3 and powered down the layout, as well as reset the lok to factory defaults and re-defined it to the CS3 via MFX. Nothing helped.

This morning after being powered down for 12+ plus hours, the lok was again mobile ... until it hit the first braking module. It now again refuses to move. A 10 minute power down of the CS3 and layout has not helped.

I am hoping that someone from the forum can provide some advice on how to proceed. My preference is of course to figure out what's going on and resolve the problem without having to send my lok back to Göppingen.

Thanks in advance,

Edited by user 26 January 2020 20:07:31(UTC)  | Reason: Marked Topic as "Resolved Issue"

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2020 15:52:32(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,878
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Hello Friends,

My 37068 BR80 Museum Lok arrived last Saturday. Yesterday I put it on the part of my layout where I use 72442 Braking Modules, to control track blocks and a station. When the BR80 came to the first red signal / module it decelerated and stopped as expected. It halted prior to the "Safety" section, so its headlamps were still on.

When the signal / module went green again, the lok would not move. The lok still responded to all digital commands (Telex couplers, sounds & lights). Yet, no matter which movement control I tried from my CS3 (direction & speed), the lok ignored it.

I re-booted the CS3 and powered down the layout, as well as reset the lok to factory defaults and re-defined it to the CS3 via MFX. Nothing helped.

This morning after being powered down for 12+ plus hours, the lok was again mobile ... until it hit the first braking module. It now again refuses to move. A 10 minute power down of the CS3 and layout has not helped.

I am hoping that someone from the forum can provide some advice on how to proceed. My preference is of course to figure out what's going on and resolve the problem without having to send my lok back to Göppingen.

Thanks in advance,


If it has an msd/3 decoder turn off the DC mode in the decoder would be my suggestion. I suspect that once it stops it is being confused by the track signal putting it into a strange mode.
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 16 January 2020 07:07:03(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,246
Try to change CV 50 by change the value.
Just accept mfx and MM protocol.
Offline rrf  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2020 14:57:18(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
KiwiAlan, Goofy,

Thank you both for your replies. I pulled up the lok's Config Screen, in hopes of disabling DCC control. The only references I see to CV50 are on the "AC Configuration" and the "DC Configuration" entries (see below).

BR80_37068_Config.JPG

Is toggling one of those "Allowed" push buttons the way I should make this change?

Thanks again for your help,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline jlopez  
#5 Posted : 16 January 2020 15:07:35(UTC)
jlopez

United States   
Joined: 28/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 138
Location: San Francisco
I have this loc as well and experienced the same issues. Was running it on our module layout. There was a short somewhere with another train. Then it behaved just the way you described. It’s weird, if you look at the instructions it does say it has some sort of new decoder with it that is only specific to the marklin system. We never saw that before. I took it home, and funny after I took the shell off it works fine. I did a reset on it seems to be working ok now. Their something definitely odd about the engine however.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jlopez
rrf
Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 16 January 2020 15:31:32(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,246
Originally Posted by: jlopez Go to Quoted Post
I have this loc as well and experienced the same issues. Was running it on our module layout. There was a short somewhere with another train. Then it behaved just the way you described. It’s weird, if you look at the instructions it does say it has some sort of new decoder with it that is only specific to the marklin system. We never saw that before. I took it home, and funny after I took the shell off it works fine. I did a reset on it seems to be working ok now. Their something definitely odd about the engine however.


The short circuit happens when + and - are touching together.

Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 16 January 2020 15:34:54(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,246
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
KiwiAlan, Goofy,

Thank you both for your replies. I pulled up the lok's Config Screen, in hopes of disabling DCC control. The only references I see to CV50 are on the "AC Configuration" and the "DC Configuration" entries (see below).

BR80_37068_Config.JPG

Is toggling one of those "Allowed" push buttons the way I should make this change?

Thanks again for your help,


In maerklin.de homepage you can download sound decoder manual.
Search decoder number 60975.
Offline rrf  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2020 21:06:05(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello again,

Thanks to Goofy's suggestion, I downloaded the manual for the 60975 decoder. The definitions for CV50 are listed as:
SD3_Decoder_CV50.JPG
The factory default value of 15 decimal or 1111 binary has the following bits set:

3 - MFX: Enabled
2 - DCC: Enabled
1 - Analog DC: Enabled
0 - Analog AC: Enabled

If my goal is to disable DCC then I should load binary 1011 or decimal 11 to CV 50. Which leads to my question: The CS3 config screen for this lok (please reference my previous post) only has an "allowed" radio button ... whatever that means. How do I load the desired value when the only option I have is the radio button? Also, I'm rather curious about the DC Analog mode setting and what it's meant for.

This is only the second time I've played with a CV value ... changing an M84's behavior was my first and it took a good bit of help from forum members for me to get that right Smile So I apologize in advance for asking what appears on the surface to be a rather simple question. BTW, I do have an MS2 available if folks believe it's an easier tool to use for this CV change.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 16 January 2020 23:46:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,878
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Also, I'm rather curious about the DC Analog mode setting and what it's meant for.


It is for when someone with a DCC loco wants to run their loco in analogue mode on a DC system. However when the loco powers up if it believes it is on a DC system then it ignores any DCC signals it then sees.

It is the DC mode I'm suggesting you turn off, as the stopping module uses DC to bring the loco to a stop. The loco then seems to get confused.
Offline mbarreto  
#10 Posted : 17 January 2020 12:50:47(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 932
CV 29, bit 2 means Analogue off (0) or Analogue on (1)

So it should be 0 and probably it overrides CV 50.

The best is to have CV 29 bit 2 and CV 50 bits 0 and 1 with a vlaue of 0.

From the screen you show in CS3 they seem to already be at 0 as "Allowed" is not selected.

You may try turn them on and after off again, I mean configure "Allowed" and run the locomotive, stop it and maybe remove it from the rails for some minutes. After do the reverse, I mean reprogram the decoder again by deselecting "Allowed".

My 2 cents...
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline rrf  
#11 Posted : 17 January 2020 20:40:42(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello Friends,

A quick update … I used my CS3 to toggle both the AC & DC Configuration radio buttons that affect the CV 29 and CV 50 settings. Unfortunately, the only affect I could see was that the lok would stop moving (similar to what happened on the braking module sections). I then had to reset it to the original settings and power it down for a while before it would run againSad

Next, I'm going to borrow my sons MS2 and see if it will give me full control of the CV values and allow updates with the decimal representation of all of the binary bit values.
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline rrf  
#12 Posted : 18 January 2020 16:39:28(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Next, I'm going to borrow my sons MS2 and see if it will give me full control of the CV values and allow updates with the decimal representation of all of the binary bit values.

Hello again,

I looked at the CV programming options on an upgraded MS2 (code level 3.55). It's even more cryptic than my CS3!

Short of purchasing a decoder programmer, is there any way to load a CV register with an full value? Decimal, Octal, Binary ... I don't care which. I just want to load a full bit mask to the register. Is that asking too much?

Thanks for all of your help so far,

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 18 January 2020 20:45:02(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,878
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Next, I'm going to borrow my sons MS2 and see if it will give me full control of the CV values and allow updates with the decimal representation of all of the binary bit values.

Hello again,

I looked at the CV programming options on an upgraded MS2 (code level 3.55). It's even more cryptic than my CS3!

Short of purchasing a decoder programmer, is there any way to load a CV register with an full value? Decimal, Octal, Binary ... I don't care which. I just want to load a full bit mask to the register. Is that asking too much?

Thanks for all of your help so far,



If you have a Lokprogrammer that can be used to program CVs.

The cheapest way to get a non-Marklin programmer is probably to purchase an SPROG-II or 3 which is supplied with JMRI and connects to a computer with USB. The JMRI programme allows human readable labeling of CVs and bits within CVs. The most recent versions have the current Marklin mld/3 and msd/3 decoders set up but I haven't had an opportunity to try these out yet.
Offline rrf  
#14 Posted : 19 January 2020 16:59:50(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

If you have a Lokprogrammer that can be used to program CVs.

Hello,

First, thank you kiwiAlan for confirming the need for a Lok programmer. If I decide to go that route, I'll likely get the Märklin model. I checked AJCKids and it's only $70ish USD. BTW, is it me or is it rather lame that an MS2 and CS3 are both incapable of direct updates of decoder CVs? I can see the value of having a "user friendly" way of making CV changes. But, that should not preclude the ability to set any register to any valid value!

Next, I am now thinking that there is more to this problem than a confused decoder. This morning I ran the BR80 on the section of my test layout that uses M84s in lieu of braking modules, to control automated events. First time the lok hit a red signal (no power), it refused to startup again after going green!

So I then put it on an analog controlled track section. It kind of ran ... though in general it took two, three or more attempts of applying full power with the trafo, to get the lok to move again after stopping or changing direction. Is it possible that the motor is binding? In an earlier post to this thread, jlopez described resolving similar problems with his BR80 by opening the shell. But if that's the case, why does it run perfect first time / everytime after sitting unpowered for a few hours? It's only after the lok's first stop that I run into trouble!

Thoughts and advice are apprecited.

Thanks,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline rrf  
#15 Posted : 26 January 2020 20:01:53(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 257
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: jlopez Go to Quoted Post
I have this loc as well and experienced the same issues. <Text Deleted> I took it home, and funny after I took the shell off it works fine. I did a reset on it seems to be working ok now. Their something definitely odd about the engine however.

Hello,

I finally had some time today to do as jlopez suggested. I took the shell off and the lok ran fine on all parts of my layouts, including the braking module sections. I carefully put the shell back on and the lok continues to run properly.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that when the model was manufactured, somehow the shell was installed so that it created friction on the motor. By removing and then carefully replacing the shell, I may have removed some friction.

Who know? I'm just happy that the lok is running. Thank you jlopez!


Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by rrf
Offline jlopez  
#16 Posted : 27 January 2020 04:30:04(UTC)
jlopez

United States   
Joined: 28/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 138
Location: San Francisco
No worries Rrf! Glad it worked out!!!
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