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Offline jonas_sthlm  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2019 12:04:50(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Hi

I wondering if someone create some type of Startup gymnastics to check all switches back and forth?

Still have some switches 74490 engines and this morning one failed and damage a steam locomotive badly Angry

So now two snow plows broken without any replacement parts at M Mad
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline amartinezv  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2019 12:21:12(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 278
Location: Madrid,
Hello

you have to remove the limit switches or bypass them.

There are many sites on the internet that explain this, for example this one:

http://www.umbert.net/modificar_motores_devios.htm

it's in Spanish but with the images it's enough

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2019 12:48:15(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Big thanks for the link, I have notice this idea earlier…

Maybe it would be better if others like me to send back the engines that doesn't work.

Instead of fixing itself with soldering iron and highlight quality issue they have?

Back to my question, some type of button that play each switch back and forward in a schedule..
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#4 Posted : 28 December 2019 13:34:12(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
By the way,

Have they removed the switch for analog safety on the latest version of 74491?

Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 28 December 2019 17:36:50(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
By the way,

Have they removed the switch for analog safety on the latest version of 74491?


Hello Jonas

looks like you understand German?

First to your question. No, Maerklin has not removed this safty board on the latest version. They cannot do it, because they sell the motor 74491 to everybody. Nobody knows, if it is used in analogue or digital mode. They always have to be prepared ready for both modes.

In another forum (blog from Stucki - see below) was told also the new 74491 turnout motor will fail. It only shall last longer till it fails. And honestly I got meanwhile a failed 74491 too.

Also I saw a video, where the little safty bridge for analogue users was removed- The repairman closed it without any further security. But then he labeled the motor with the remark "for digital use only". That is the point. At your layout at home you can decide what to do. If you are doing every turnout toggling digitally, you do not need this end up security switch. If not, then I would recommend to build in a security for the switching motor.

Second. If you are able to understand the German language, it will help you. Otherwise - sorry - you have to translate the article.

Here is an article in German from the Maerklin dealer Stucki in Switzerland. He is an excellent Maerklin dealer, expensive (as almost everything in Switzerland BigGrin ) but very good in advising too. He has its own blog writing about Maerklin. One topic is the failer of the turnout motor 74491.

http://zugkraft-stucki.b...-problemlosung.html#more

The advantage of Stucki's blog are not only the good pictures. Also he offers a good and inexpensive solution for this motor, a multifuse resetting fuse (PTC), "PFRA 020". Of course available in his shop.

https://shop.zugkraft-st...e-sicherung-ptc-pfra-020

I think for the repair of my motor I now will follow Stucki's advice.

Regards

TEEWolf

P.S.: please, do not ask me why Maerklin is not offering the same security system. I do not kow.BigGrin
Offline Purellum  
#6 Posted : 28 December 2019 18:09:56(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,198
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Also he offers a good and inexpensive solution for this motor


Since he charges more than 10 times the normal price for a PFRA 020, I don't think "inexpensive" is the correct term Cool

https://www.google.com/s...ceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The net is full of similar; but yet different solutions; I have no idea why this one should be considered better than any of the others.

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Thewolf  
#7 Posted : 28 December 2019 18:15:37(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,809
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
By the way,

Have they removed the switch for analog safety on the latest version of 74491?


Hello Jonas

looks like you understand German?

First to your question. No, Maerklin has not removed this safty board on the latest version. They cannot do it, because they sell the motor 74491 to everybody. Nobody knows, if it is used in analogue or digital mode. They always have to be prepared ready for both modes.

In another forum (blog from Stucki - see below) was told also the new 74491 turnout motor will fail. It only shall last longer till it fails. And honestly I got meanwhile a failed 74491 too.

Also I saw a video, where the little safty bridge for analogue users was removed- The repairman closed it without any further security. But then he labeled the motor with the remark "for digital use only". That is the point. At your layout at home you can decide what to do. If you are doing every turnout toggling digitally, you do not need this end up security switch. If not, then I would recommend to build in a security for the switching motor.

Second. If you are able to understand the German language, it will help you. Otherwise - sorry - you have to translate the article.

Here is an article in German from the Maerklin dealer Stucki in Switzerland. He is an excellent Maerklin dealer, expensive (as almost everything in Switzerland BigGrin ) but very good in advising too. He has its own blog writing about Maerklin. One topic is the failer of the turnout motor 74491.

http://zugkraft-stucki.b...-problemlosung.html#more

The advantage of Stucki's blog are not only the good pictures. Also he offers a good and inexpensive solution for this motor, a multifuse resetting fuse (PTC), "PFRA 020". Of course available in his shop.

https://shop.zugkraft-st...e-sicherung-ptc-pfra-020

I think for the repair of my motor I now will follow Stucki's advice.

Regards

TEEWolf

P.S.: please, do not ask me why Maerklin is not offering the same security system. I do not kow.BigGrin


Hello WolfgangCool

Interesting your Stucki block.

Have you ever tried his method? I want to make sure that the method is effective

I'm going to google these little "bugs" to see where I can get them in Canada.

Serge
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Danlake  
#8 Posted : 28 December 2019 19:58:23(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
Hi

I wondering if someone create some type of Startup gymnastics to check all switches back and forth?

Still have some switches 74490 engines and this morning one failed and damage a steam locomotive badly Angry

So now two snow plows broken without any replacement parts at M Mad


Hi Jonas,

Back to your original question.

Yes I do have a small program to exercise and check all my turnouts. I use Traincontroller though. I have programmed that they run one by one (back and forth) with a small interval in between. And they run in cluster, so first all my switches in shadow yard gets tested. By now I can actually hear if a turnout has not switch.

I don’t see why you could do the same with a CS3.

I don’t always have time to run the layout as much as I want so sometimes I will just exercise all the switches, take the turntable for a spin and run my old analog crane etc.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 28 December 2019 20:13:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,963
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post

Hello WolfgangCool

Interesting your Stucki block.

Have you ever tried his method? I want to make sure that the method is effective

I'm going to google these little "bugs" to see where I can get them in Canada.

Serge


They are available from RS as catalogue #670-0893, Digikey as #670-0893 and Farnell as 2921941.

You should have Digikey and Farnell available in Canada, possibly also RS.
Offline Rwill  
#10 Posted : 28 December 2019 21:00:11(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 584
Location: England, London
Although not directly addressing the Op’s question I would make a couple of observations. My Marklin (from Hornby) journey started by accident 30 years ago. My first purchase after “the accident” a gifted Marklin loc was to buy a digital starter set k track powered by 6021 type thingy I think it was called a 6020 four addresses and four accessory switches. Progressed over time to a 6021,keyboard with k83s, m83 and just a couple of track mounted decoders. Went from k track to C track and the corresponding turnout mechanisms and updates. Control moved to MS2 but turnouts tended to be kept with a 6021plus keyboard. And when I blew up my beloved 6021 fiddling with wires underneath the layout I purchased my current set up through an LGB start set which included a cs2 and that lovely great big power supply wrapped in waterproof covering!

So over the years I have experienced the turnout motor blues so often written about.
Some non technical observations:

Worst period K track and MS2 low output voltage?

Currently very few problems and usually solved by a wiggle of the turnout and a squirt of WD40 over the top of the misbehaving turnout – pause whilst purists shudder

Always kept a couple of extra new turnout motors so in the event fit new one and put the “broken one” in the big biscuit tin with the others.

When bored would attempt to go through the biscuit tin and repair. My very clumsy soldering meant I usually oversoldered or melted something and the cases would not usually go back on

I made an odd observation when looking through the tin I would use an old Gaugemaster transformer chucking out 18Volts and a K83 to find the non working items. Turnout Motor always seemed to work perfectly before during and after repairs and the when back in the layout not work.

And my “LGB” mega power supply is chucking 20Volts out to the “track” and I am having very few problems. Some one will tell me I am drastically shortening the life of my loks or some such but I don’t think I care.

It totally puzzles me the Marklin Approach to this problem. I don’t think in HO in the current catalogue if you are over three you can buy anything analogue. Yet the faulty design appears to pander solely to “analogue users”. What they are supplying is simply not fit for purpose and as most of us no longer have a dealer down the road the solutions are just too hard.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Rwill
Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 29 December 2019 00:24:16(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


Hello WolfgangCool

Interesting your Stucki block.

Have you ever tried his method? I want to make sure that the method is effective

I'm going to google these little "bugs" to see where I can get them in Canada.

Serge



Hello Serge,

No, I did not try the method yet. But you can rely on Stucki. He is one of the biggest Maerklin dealers in Switzerland and has to remain his image. Cannot imagine he is publishing rubbish. In addition he certainly does not want to fake you. He wants to sell Maerklin turnout motors. The better they are working, the lower will be his guarantee costs. This is a free market economy.BigGrin

ciao

Wolfgang
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 29 December 2019 00:57:05(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,107
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


They are also available from Mouser and Element14
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 29 December 2019 01:16:25(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,107
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Second. If you are able to understand the German language, it will help you. Otherwise - sorry - you have to translate the article.


Not necessarily. Youtube has an autotranslate feature where you can display autotranslated subtitles in whatever language you choose.

At the bottom right of the movie player click on Settings

Capture1.JPG

Click on subtitles

Capture2.JPG

Click on Autotranslate

Capture3.JPG

Select your language

BTW, safty is correctly spelt 'safety'!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline Purellum  
#14 Posted : 29 December 2019 01:24:02(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,198
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
They are also available from Mouser


Yes; but can anybody please explain why this should be a good solution?

Herr Stucki wants us to remove the micro-switch and mount a PFRA 020 instead, at a price of 3 EURO.

We can find the same component in other shops at a price of 0,30 EURO.

BUT, since the micro switch is being removed, the turnout motor can only be used in digital,
which means by a decoder, which supplies the turnout motor with DC.

IMHO a freewheeling diode / flyback diode, e.g. a 1N4001 would be better, and the price is approximately 0,01 EURO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode

Edit: Using a flyback diode, the power to the turnout motor can't stay on forever, the control system have to turn the power
off after the turnout has changed; but this happens anyway when using any to me known modern controller. ( MS / CS / Ecos etc. )

Edit_2: The flyback diodes is of course to be mounted in parallel with the coils.

A completely different solution is to keep the micro switch and mount a varistor ( 26 V ) across the switch;
the turnout motor can then still be used for both analog and digital, and for DC and AC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor

Talking about guarantee costs doesn't really make sense, since there's no guarantee on a rebuild turnout motor........... Cool

Hasta manana, iguana LOL

Per.

Cool

Edited by user 29 December 2019 09:37:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 29 December 2019 02:59:25(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,107
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Herr Stucki wants us to remove the micro-switch and mount a PFRA 020 instead, at a price of 3 EURO.


3 euros?? On which website did you see that? The Mouser price for a single PFRA 020 is $0.60 CA which is about 0.40 euro.

Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
A completely different solution is to keep the micro switch and mount a varistor ( 26 V ) across the switch; the turnout motor can then still be used for both analog and digital, and for DC and AC.


https://nz.element14.com...004325?st=26v%20varistor ??
Offline Purellum  
#16 Posted : 29 December 2019 09:34:18(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,198
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
3 euros?? On which website did you see that?


On the website of Herr Stucki, link posted by TEEWolf: https://shop.zugkraft-st...e-sicherung-ptc-pfra-020

The price is actually 3,00 CHF, my bad, it's only 2,75 EUROs.

It's also a bit unclear if you get one or two for the price of 3 CHF.

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#17 Posted : 29 December 2019 10:11:41(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

P.S.: please, do not ask me why Maerklin is not offering the same security system. I do not kow.BigGrin


Thx Wolfgang,

It looks like removing the switch let sleigh go loosely, and their job is also to keep the sled hold it end position?

My perception of the video was that he took the engine out of the original box as new Glare
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#18 Posted : 29 December 2019 10:24:21(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

The better they are working, the lower will be his guarantee costs. This is a free market economy.BigGrin

Wolfgang


I dont think he doing so much of input on that compering what Märklin earns of selling replacement engines LOL

Their machine inside factory must run 24 hours Sneaky

So many posts on the web and M fail to make a functioning replacement engine. Miserable!

Edited by user 29 December 2019 16:26:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
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Offline hxmiesa  
#19 Posted : 29 December 2019 10:38:31(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
...
And my “LGB” mega power supply is chucking 20Volts out to the “track” and I am having very few problems. Some one will tell me I am drastically shortening the life of my loks or some such but I don’t think I care.

Right!
I use 24Vdc to switch my K-track switch-motors. Have been working well for 10-12 years now.
As long as the pulse is <<1 second, it seems that they dont mind.
Actually I give the motors 2 pulses rapidly one after the other, as the powerful 24V activation sometimes makes the piece bounce back a little when it reaches its position.
Oh yeah; I have soldered the end-turnoff micro switch over on ALL of them.


Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline jonas_sthlm  
#20 Posted : 29 December 2019 10:53:57(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post


Hi Jonas,

Back to your original question.

Yes I do have a small program to exercise and check all my turnouts. I use Traincontroller though. I have programmed that they run one by one (back and forth) with a small interval in between. And they run in cluster, so first all my switches in shadow yard gets tested. By now I can actually hear if a turnout has not switch.

I don’t see why you could do the same with a CS3.

I don’t always have time to run the layout as much as I want so sometimes I will just exercise all the switches, take the turntable for a spin and run my old analog crane etc.

Best Regards
Lasse


Thx Lasse,

I also use TC but like to know if anyone invent the idea for CS3.

Only press the button and listen to the sound of all engines, it's easy to hear if one start to failure.
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 29 December 2019 12:05:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,963
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

P.S.: please, do not ask me why Maerklin is not offering the same security system. I do not kow.BigGrin


The reason why Marklin use the microswitch is for the 7072x button box that has indicator LEDs on it. These rely on the coil you have just operated to go open circuit, and the switch on the other coil to now close providing a circuit through the coil for the current to operate the LED.

Using the resettable fuses both LEDs will always glow and not give an indication of the point setting on the 7072x box.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#22 Posted : 07 January 2020 01:05:25(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
Big thanks for the link, I have notice this idea earlier…

Maybe it would be better if others like me to send back the engines that doesn't work.

Instead of fixing itself with soldering iron and highlight quality issue they have?

Back to my question, some type of button that play each switch back and forward in a schedule..



I would rather re solder the motors, then fit and forget, the replacement motors, although free, Will propably break down too.

Henrik Schütz ,Stockholm
Offline JohnjeanB  
#23 Posted : 07 January 2020 19:04:02(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 727
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
Hi

I wondering if someone create some type of Startup gymnastics to check all switches back and forth?

Still have some switches 74490 engines and this morning one failed and damage a steam locomotive badly Angry

So now two snow plows broken without any replacement parts at M Mad

Hi Jonas

On my CS2 and Rocrail I have created a start-up gymnastics to obtain a very reliable functioning of my switches. It is written in XML and controlling the activation width (in milli seconds) for Rocrail but the same could be used on a CS2 or CS3 (just more painful) using routes.
More generally my Märklin layout works better when used regularly (switch motors, track contact, etc)
My programs looks like this:
Gym for switches.txt (5kb) downloaded 15 time(s).
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#24 Posted : 09 January 2020 21:49:52(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Thx,

I create an event with a button on the track layout ThumpUp
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
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