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Offline Richard Joint  
#1 Posted : 20 December 2019 03:14:14(UTC)
Richard Joint

Honduras   
Joined: 20/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tegucigalpa
Will these be recognised by the MS 2 or CS3. Appreciate confirmation. Just purchased several such starter sets, but want to run on my main layout.
Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 20 December 2019 06:20:50(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Richard Joint Go to Quoted Post
Will these be recognised by the MS 2 or CS3. Appreciate confirmation. Just purchased several such starter sets, but want to run on my main layout.


No, they do not recognise them. It is a different world.
The Infrared Controller (IR) is a complete stand alone none digital controlling system with its own power feeding station and with its own cable and fitting system. But the rolling stock and tracks are compatible with the classic C-track system. Or the other way around: you can run the rolling stock and use the C-tracks on your main layout without using the IR controlling and power feeding track. Never mix it up with your digital system.

BTW this IR controller is connected to its system by this little plastic lens on top of the power feeding track. You do not need any cable. But signals and turnouts need their extra control boxes. These starter sets are using the old AC system. Because of this, you must always install a decoder (like a m83/m84) between a CS 3 / MS 2 and solenoid articles from the start-up Maerklin line.
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Offline Purellum  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2019 08:50:21(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
The Infrared Controller (IR) is a complete stand alone none digital controlling system


The infra red controller is a digital system, sending digital signals to the tracks, just as any other digital system.

It can only control speed, direction, headlights and 4 functions; but the protocol is the same as any non-MFX from Märklin.

The infrared controller can't be used with a CS3 or a MS2; but it can be connected to the "sniffer port" of a CS1 or an Ecos.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

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In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2019 10:57:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
These starter sets are using the old AC system.
The old AC system is analogue.
The IR Controllers operate with DC power supplies and the electricity emitted to the track is the same as with a CS 3 or an MS 2 or a 6021.

Never connect the track outputs of different digital controllers, even if the format is the same.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 22 December 2019 18:03:37(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
These starter sets are using the old AC system.
The old AC system is analogue.
The IR Controllers operate with DC power supplies and the electricity emitted to the track is the same as with a CS 3 or an MS 2 or a 6021.

Never connect the track outputs of different digital controllers, even if the format is the same.


Perhaps I am wrong. But why shall I not connect the “different digital controllers even if the format is the same”? Why can you not use the IR controller together with a MS 2 or CS 3? Especially they "emit the same electricity", can you explain please? Because a MS 2 or even a MS 1 is always connectable with a CS 3. Where are all these great grand electricians? Criticism is easy and sometimes correct, but then you have to explain the differences for the people here. They want to know as it works. This needs constructive explanations, not only allegations.
Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 22 December 2019 19:56:18(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
These starter sets are using the old AC system.
The old AC system is analogue.
The IR Controllers operate with DC power supplies and the electricity emitted to the track is the same as with a CS 3 or an MS 2 or a 6021.

Never connect the track outputs of different digital controllers, even if the format is the same.


Perhaps I am wrong. But why shall I not connect the “different digital controllers even if the format is the same”? Why can you not use the IR controller together with a MS 2 or CS 3? Especially they "emit the same electricity", can you explain please? Because a MS 2 or even a MS 1 is always connectable with a CS 3. Where are all these great grand electricians? Criticism is easy and sometimes correct, but then you have to explain the differences for the people here. They want to know as it works. This needs constructive explanations, not only allegations.


You cannot connect two different controllers to the track at the same time, as this would damage the electronics.

You can connect Mobile Stations to Central Stations as they have the appropriate socket to do so.

Some Central Stations have a "sniffer port", to which a wide variety of controllers can be connected. This would be the only way to connect the IR controller to a Central station.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Purellum  
#7 Posted : 22 December 2019 19:58:26(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps I am wrong.


Not only perhaps; you are definitely wrong Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
But why shall I not connect the “different digital controllers even if the format is the same”? Why can you not use the IR controller together with a MS 2 or CS 3? Especially they "emit the same electricity", can you explain please?


Because there's no way to make sure the timing is correct. Cool

One controller could be sending a negative signal / voltage at the same time the other one sends a positive signal / voltage,
and that would create a short circuit, and most likely release the magic smoke from one of or both controllers. Blink

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Because a MS 2 or even a MS 1 is always connectable with a CS 3.


Yes, they are connected via a bus, so this way they are not "emitting the same electricity" Cool

The MS1 or MS2 sends messages to the CS3, telling the CS3 what to do; the MS1 and / or MS2
are NOT sending track voltage to the same tracks as the CS3 tracks. Blink

I'm amazed you ask this question, considered the number of times you've written long stories about
the fantastic and important galvanic isolated CAN-bus in the CS3 - even though you still haven't told us why
you think it's fantastic or why you think the galvanic isolation is important Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Where are all these great grand electricians?


I don't know any of the "great grand electricians"; but they probably left when you started calling them strange names. Cool

An example can be seen here: https://www.marklin-user...--Here-I-come#post588253

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Criticism is easy and sometimes correct, but then you have to explain the differences for the people here. They want to know as it works. This needs constructive explanations, not only allegations.


Every time a question is asked here, there are people trying to give the correct answer. Cool

You never ask, you answer; but most of the time you answer wrong, and then other forum members have to correct you. Blink

That is not allegations, that is correcting. Cool

If you asked about the things you don't know, you would get constructive explanations, just like everybody else who asks. Blink

Per.

P.S: Reading the topic again, I still can't find the allegations mentioned ??? Confused

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Purellum  
#8 Posted : 25 December 2019 00:26:21(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

@TEEWolf, you asked a question, I answered it; have you seen my answer?

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 27 December 2019 14:36:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Criticism is easy and sometimes correct, but then you have to explain the differences for the people here. They want to know as it works. This needs constructive explanations, not only allegations.
You derail so many threads by providing incorrect information that is off-topic anyway. It would take far too long to correct all your post-factual posts.
It would be easier if you would keep your posts on-topic and stick to facts only.

Correcting post-factual posts in long replies does not prevent those short "fake news" from appearing again and again in other threads.

It seems that facts are over-rated and your posts receive many Thanks votes.
The dashboard statistics do not work and I cannot see how many posts I wrote this year. I tried to spend less time on the forum and I think I achieved that.
The S/N ratio went down the drain and I spend less time reading here and far less time writing here. Life can be wonderful when I am off-line.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 28 December 2019 01:20:15(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Allegations have been made and we intend to find the Alligator.....
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 28 December 2019 05:16:24(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
I don't know what relevance galvanic isolation has to the CAN bus, I always thought galvanic isolation was used in reference to a controller or booster track output circuitry, in a MRR context.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation)

"Galvanic isolation is used where two or more electric circuits must communicate, but their grounds may be at different potentials. It is an effective method of breaking ground loops by preventing unwanted current from flowing between two units sharing a ground conductor. Galvanic isolation is also used for safety, preventing accidental current from reaching ground through a person's body."

The CAN bus was developed by Bosch for use in the automotive industry

Again, from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus)

"A Controller Area Network (CAN bus) is a robust vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each others' applications without a host computer. It is a message-based protocol, designed originally for multiplex electrical wiring within automobiles to save on copper, but can also be used in many other contexts. For each device the data in a packet is transmitted sequentially but in such a way that if more than one device transmits at the same time the highest priority device is able to continue while the others back off. Packets are received by all devices, including by the transmitting device."

"The CAN bus protocol is widely implemented due to its fault tolerance in electrically noisy environments such as model railroad sensor feedback systems by major commercial Digital Command Control system manufacturers and various open source digital model railroad control projects."

In terms of connecting an IR controller to a CS2/CS3, well as has been explained already you can't! The IR controller has no interface cable to be able to be plugged in to a CS2/CS3 like the MS2 has, and you can't connect the track output to a CS2/CS3 output as you will cook/fry/toast/destroy the track output module of each device. Search the forum for posts where folks have done that (by accident) to their 6021 / Intelliboxes. If you want to do this then get an Ecos where as has already been mentioned, you can connect the track output of the IR controller to the sniffer input of the Ecos which has been specifically designed for this purpose.
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