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Offline bobsr  
#1 Posted : 07 January 2017 23:09:13(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Hello Everyone,

I have some VB HO items from 1950's France. including 7 passenger cars, 8 freight cars, and a 1952 or 1953 16 page catalogue "Chemins de fer electriques minature." The catalogue shows all the track and specs and accessories, suggested layouts, catenary and available freight cars.

I have some VB track and catenary which I think frankly looked better than the 1950's Marklin 3 rail track, and had a huge layout as a kid with part of it using the VB track and catenary, and maybe even using some of their larger radius curves. But I haven't really looked since it got packed away in 1959.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has collector interest, and perhaps knows of specific VB information available on a forum. This stuff I think was pretty rare in N America at the time (actually, so was HO Marklin!) and I could take photos of all the cars and post them on smugmug if there was interest.

I think there was one Marklin French engine I used to run with them. Passenger cars are not lighted like the Marklin ones that had light kits in them from that era. I think I had to install them in each of the Marklin passenger cars with their own pick up shoe.(You turned the lights on or off in each car by moving the pick up shoe up or down!) It was magic when running all this stuff as a ten year old in 1955 in a dark train room with all the train and other accessory lighting and playing a 78 rpm record for the "train sounds". Aah, back to those old analog days! Who needed a "computer" or "social network."...

I'm not sure the VB rolling stock got used all that much as they look like new. But they are heavy and highly detailed beautiful running stock. Almost real works of art. Anyone else got anything to add about VB?
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 08 January 2017 10:10:04(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Forum member Yumgui does have track made by Vollon et Brun (= VB):
https://www.marklin-user...Compact-tests#post440800

Forum member Markus Schild owns a VB loco:
https://www.marklin-user...-and-Brun-Serial-Numbers

Website of a French collector:
http://trainsdefrancois.free.fr/vb.php

Website of a Swiss collector:
http://www.blechundguss.ch/214.html
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Offline jvuye  
#3 Posted : 08 January 2017 18:25:40(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hi
VB has quite a dedicated following here in France, but as you can expect, mostly from people in their sixth or seventh decade and beyond!
I have some track and switches, they look very much like Märklin 3800/3900 series , except that it has a center solid rail.
There was I think some legal wrangling between M and VB , allegedly because M copied the track's design. (Which may partially explains why it was "retired" so quickly.
I have a few cars too, most notably the famous "generator car" that was part of the famous Mistral (Paris-Marseille-Nice) train of the days.
Fits perfectly with M 4050/4085 Inox coaches ...
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline bobsr  
#4 Posted : 08 January 2017 20:07:44(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Forum member Yumgui does have track made by Vollon et Brun (= VB):
https://www.marklin-user...Compact-tests#post440800

Forum member Markus Schild owns a VB loco:
https://www.marklin-user...-and-Brun-Serial-Numbers

Website of a French collector:
http://trainsdefrancois.free.fr/vb.php

Website of a Swiss collector:
http://www.blechundguss.ch/214.html


Hello Alsterstreek,

Thank you very much for the links. Very informative to see something of the world of the "real collectors."

I learned that VB did not make passenger cars, and the 7 cars I have were in the same box marked VB with the freight cars. I don't know the manufacturer of the passenger cars, so maybe you can help me.

The cars are all metal, and have solid running boards on each side of the cars. Colors of the cars are dark green, yellow, and burgundy. Some have a set of 4 wheel trucks on each end, and some have three sets of axles with wheels.

Two cars have some kind of a small mini plug at each end, but I don't see that they have any lights. (Perhaps they were ahead of their time with an MP3 connection!). One car has two red dots on one end, but they are not real lights.

There is a maker's mark on the bottom of each car:

There is an "=" sign, then 3/4 of a circle, and at the circle opening, another "=" sign.

In the circle are the letters "SM"

The "S" has what look like an allen wrench going through it top to bottom (looks like a US dollar sign), and the small part of the allen wrench is at the top of the "S "to the right.

I could take some photos if anyone is interested, but if you know the maker, I would be happy to hear about it. My Dad had these in a display of trains for many years, and I don't think they have ever been run. Alas, there are no original boxes with any of these items. But at age 10 when I had a large Marklin layout, boxes were not on my mind :)

Thanks.
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Offline bobsr  
#5 Posted : 08 January 2017 22:45:30(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Hi
VB has quite a dedicated following here in France, but as you can expect, mostly from people in their sixth or seventh decade and beyond!
I have some track and switches, they look very much like Märklin 3800/3900 series , except that it has a center solid rail.
There was I think some legal wrangling between M and VB , allegedly because M copied the track's design. (Which may partially explains why it was "retired" so quickly.
I have a few cars too, most notably the famous "generator car" that was part of the famous Mistral (Paris-Marseille-Nice) train of the days.
Fits perfectly with M 4050/4085 Inox coaches ...
Cheers


Hello Dr Eisenbahn,

Thank you for the information about VB. Yes, all older people who had this stuff as youngsters perhaps. Maybe I better sell it while someone still has interest!

I did not hear the story about the track before, but I always liked the VB track, and I had a lot of catenary to go with it which looked and worked great back in the day, and probably still would. I used my SEW 800 for the French cars, but was very fond of the Marklin lighted passengers cars. The 8 VB cars I have are the basic ones from the 1952/3 catalogue. Maybe the Arbel coal car is interesting to some.

Thanks again for your comments.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 09 January 2017 00:43:14(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi bobsr,
I have a fondness for VB trains (along with other French manufacturers such as SMCF, PMP and Jep, which I collect).
One VB item, a fourgon, or qeue de train vehicle for freight trains is shown here on my layout, the VB is the brown car.
It is made of metal, and was designed for 3 rail.
In many cases, VB and other French brands from the 50/60s sell as expensive as new articles made today.

http://www.qldrail.net/altkloster/sncf231shorttrain.jpg

I also collect VB 3 rail track, which is is high quality in both design and manufacture. But it is hard to get.
This track goes with my Hornby Dublo 3 rail (English), because it is completely compatible.
It also allows me to run 2 rail trains on it.

It is most likely that your unknown make is SMCF. Your "wrench" is certainly the F. The C is the 3/4 circle which encloses the SFM.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#7 Posted : 09 January 2017 09:57:28(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: bobsr Go to Quoted Post


Two cars have some kind of a small mini plug at each end, but I don't see that they have any lights. (Perhaps they were ahead of their time with an MP3 connection!). One car has two red dots on one end, but they are not real lights.

There is a maker's mark on the bottom of each car:

There is an "=" sign, then 3/4 of a circle, and at the circle opening, another "=" sign.

In the circle are the letters "SM"

The "S" has what look like an allen wrench going through it top to bottom (looks like a US dollar sign), and the small part of the allen wrench is at the top of the "S "to the right.

I could take some photos if anyone is interested, but if you know the maker, I would be happy to hear about it. My Dad had these in a display of trains for many years, and I don't think they have ever been run. Alas, there are no original boxes with any of these items. But at age 10 when I had a large Marklin layout, boxes were not on my mind :)




Hi bobsr,

Could this be a mark of SMCF? SMCF made cars which were similar to VB but not so detailed. It would very interesting to see photos. For example this is a full-metal SMCF- car, but the car is not marked:

UserPostedImage




And a car from VB, made of presspahn and metal. The side you see is made from ~15 single parts, I totally counted more than 50 parts for the hole car:

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus
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Offline alan  
#8 Posted : 09 January 2017 13:20:29(UTC)
alan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 225
Location: devon
baby trains catalogue might be of interest sorry for the quality alan plymouth

alan plymouthDSCF5892.JPGDSCF5891.JPGDSCF5888.JPGDSCF5885.JPGDSCF5887.JPGDSCF5886.JPGDSCF5884.JPGDSCF5890.JPG
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Offline Markus Schild  
#9 Posted : 09 January 2017 16:25:24(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

I got these VB - catalogues from somewhere in the net.

1956: https://dl.dropbox.com/s...0cysnh9p/CAT-VB-1956.pdf

1960: https://dl.dropbox.com/s...hqv665re/CAT-VB-1960.pdf

ca. 1963, VB-TRIANG: https://dl.dropbox.com/s...d504/CAT-VB%20ca1963.pdf


Regards

Markus
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Offline bobsr  
#10 Posted : 09 January 2017 19:30:13(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi bobsr,
I have a fondness for VB trains (along with other French manufacturers such as SMCF, PMP and Jep, which I collect).
One VB item, a fourgon, or qeue de train vehicle for freight trains is shown here on my layout, the VB is the brown car.
It is made of metal, and was designed for 3 rail.
In many cases, VB and other French brands from the 50/60s sell as expensive as new articles made today.

http://www.qldrail.net/altkloster/sncf231shorttrain.jpg

I also collect VB 3 rail track, which is is high quality in both design and manufacture. But it is hard to get.
This track goes with my Hornby Dublo 3 rail (English), because it is completely compatible.
It also allows me to run 2 rail trains on it.

It is most likely that your unknown make is SMCF. Your "wrench" is certainly the F. The C is the 3/4 circle which encloses the SFM.

regards
Kimball



Hello Kimball,

Yes, the 7 passenger cars are SMCF! Thank you for enlightening me! They all have the same mark stamped on the bottom. Other posters that followed have also identified them and sent some pictures from literature at the time.

Looking at your photo, I have 2 in black color of the same two wheeled VB freight car (# 23 in the 1952 or '53 VB catalogue I have) that you show running.

All these posters have been very helpful, so I will take some pictures of all these cars and post them "for the record," and may even take the advice from Dr Eisenbahn and see if there is any interest from anyone to purchase them, before all the 70 and 80 year olds expire! (Myself included!)

Thanks again!
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Offline bobsr  
#11 Posted : 09 January 2017 19:58:20(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Originally Posted by: alan Go to Quoted Post
baby trains catalogue might be of interest sorry for the quality alan plymouth

alan plymouthDSCF5892.JPGDSCF5891.JPGDSCF5888.JPGDSCF5885.JPGDSCF5887.JPGDSCF5886.JPGDSCF5884.JPGDSCF5890.JPG


Hello Alan,

Thank you for the detailed response and taking the time to post pictures from the Baby Trains literature.
Looks like the page with the "Wagons et Voitures SMCF" are what I have for the passenger cars.

I will take some pictures of all the VB freight and SMCF passenger cars for everyone to have a look and "for the record" for the next person who might have something similar. But like Dodo birds, the market is probably getting smaller. Too much time on social networks and computers, and not enough enjoying or using our collections perhaps!

But in the 50's we certainly could not find similar collectors or interested people very easily around the world for these quite obscure small volume trains. Like with so many hobbies, it's great to live in a time when we can network and "speak" with others enjoying the same hobby, and adding their stories and details.

I also collect records starting with Edison Diamond discs, and have all the equipment to play the Edison discs, 78's, 45's, LP's, a wire recorder said to belong to Vaughn Monroe, reel to reel tapes, 8 tracks, cassettes, and CD's. I would pick this stuff up at yard sales for literally "take them away" prices. You need vacuum tubes for any of the old electronics and "Hi Fi" equipment? No problem. They are only a few mouse clicks away. (Remember when every drug store had a "tube checker" for all the vacuum tubes for radio or TV's, and then they unlocked the storage unit under the checker, and sold you the right vacuum tube to replace the one gone bad? (6L6!) Amazing. Who knew we would ever be able to find all these kindred spirits.

But I digress. Thanks again for your efforts to show the catalogue details.
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Offline bobsr  
#12 Posted : 09 January 2017 21:14:43(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bobsr Go to Quoted Post


Two cars have some kind of a small mini plug at each end, but I don't see that they have any lights. (Perhaps they were ahead of their time with an MP3 connection!). One car has two red dots on one end, but they are not real lights.

There is a maker's mark on the bottom of each car:

There is an "=" sign, then 3/4 of a circle, and at the circle opening, another "=" sign.

In the circle are the letters "SM"

The "S" has what look like an allen wrench going through it top to bottom (looks like a US dollar sign), and the small part of the allen wrench is at the top of the "S "to the right.

I could take some photos if anyone is interested, but if you know the maker, I would be happy to hear about it. My Dad had these in a display of trains for many years, and I don't think they have ever been run. Alas, there are no original boxes with any of these items. But at age 10 when I had a large Marklin layout, boxes were not on my mind :)




Hi bobsr,

Could this be a mark of SMCF? SMCF made cars which were similar to VB but not so detailed. It would very interesting to see photos. For example this is a full-metal SMCF- car, but the car is not marked:

UserPostedImage




And a car from VB, made of presspahn and metal. The side you see is made from ~15 single parts, I totally counted more than 50 parts for the hole car:

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus





Hello Marcus,

Thank you for your posts and literature links. Yes, as you probably have seen now, the passenger cars ARE SMCF as you suggested. I have looked mine over, and agree they are really well detailed and solid.

I will also take pictures of the 7 SMCF passenger cars I have, and also the 8 VB freight cars and add the link. I have to find the box with the VB track so I can authentically set them "on the rails".

I have been to your part of Germany many times, had relatives in Reutlingen many years ago, and still represent two German Companies in N America, one near Baden Baden and the other near Reutlingen. Have been lucky over the years to travel all over Europe and spend some time in Stuttgart. I toured the Porsche Factory in Zuffenhausen in 1969 when I was in Europe for 30 days R&R fron Vietnam. Also went in uniform for a tour through E Germany (nothing had been done with some bombed out buildings since the war, even by 1969!), and drove to Bayreuth
to check out Wagner's stomping grounds (also got a speeding ticket in a VW on the way there!). And they didn't have any "spy cameras" back then!

I also have a train story. I had a lot of Marklin as a kid, and drove by a railroad switching center, where they still were using steam locomotives. I recognized them as I had the Marklin models. So I stopped and ran up next to the fence and watched them making up trains. And I will never forget when one went by very close and all the soot that come out of the smokestack also came down all over me! Aah, the romanticism of steam rail travel! Funny the things you remember. But it was really great to see and HEAR the real engines running (but I could have done without "feeling" them)! In earlier decades, everyone would have been aware of that possibility.

I also went to the 1972 Olympics in Munich as a spectator. The world was a very large place back then. No cell phones or computers. It was a very international feeling to be sitting with people from all over the world speaking different languages etc., and rooting for your own countrymen, but very happy for them as well if the people next to you were from somewhere else and their people did well. But in hindsight, it was really the beginning of terrorism as we now know it, with the killing of Israelis that happened in the Olympic village that year. No one could quite believe that situation, especially happening in Munich. Are you old enough to remember all the "Olympic blue" Mercedes Limousines that were all over Munich moving around the Olympic VIP's? It was also the first year of the "New U Bahn" in Munich. I and also went to the Dressage and saw Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip in the stands. Great stuff.

I stayed in a Pension during that time and one morning all the local workers working on a road project came into the bar at10:00 AM during their break, and had a beer! That was very different from anything Americans were allowed to do. Drinking on the job! Gotta love it!

Thanks again for your help and comments to identify the passenger cars.

Best, Bob



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Offline bobsr  
#13 Posted : 14 January 2017 01:03:57(UTC)
bobsr

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: , NH
Hello Everyone,

Thank you for posting all the information about the French VB and identifying for me the SMCF rolling stock, with pictures, literature, links and a lot of information about these items. Knowledge from around the world...

I have taken photos of the 7 SMCF passenger cars, and the 8 VB freight cars that I have and posted them at:

https://flocking.smugmug...sengers-carsVB/n-qgmDC4/


password is: French HO cars
(Case sensitive)

If there is further interest, please contact me. 99% of what I have is Marklin.

Thanks again. Bob Sr

Edited by user 10 February 2017 20:11:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#14 Posted : 03 December 2019 19:10:30(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 587
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Greetings!

I have only recently in my search to fill out my Mother M* and personal attempt at "Le Mistral" found V+B and wondered how I missed this addition to the Märklin (SNCF) world Drool , and finding the rarity of some of the items (even a wine barrel car or 2...).

What fun this whole hobby is - finding new vistas. I do love Märklin et al. Love

Jimmy
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#15 Posted : 04 December 2019 18:57:12(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Hi all- nice thread! I had never noticed it. I have recently fallen in love with early "Martin" tinplate cars, although I only own two of them... I'd love to expand my roster of the early French items
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#16 Posted : 04 December 2019 20:04:46(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Then you might appreciate this, too:

https://www.marklin-user...e-sur-la-plaine-d-Alsace
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#17 Posted : 04 December 2019 22:03:45(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all- nice thread! I had never noticed it. I have recently fallen in love with early "Martin" tinplate cars, although I only own two of them... I'd love to expand my roster of the early French items


Oh yes!
I think the Martin cars are the 22.5cm length, which fit much better with Maerklin stock of the era.
But the Martin cars come up for sale rarely in my experience.

I have a few PMP and Rateau cars of the 26cm length.
And I do have one Rateau car of 22.5cm in blue/cream Pullman colours which appears to be same/similar to Martin.
There seems to have been quite a bit of swapping in those days, as though one manufacturer did the body sides, another the bogies etc.

The BLZ cars are also "shorties" but difficult to find in good condition.

KImball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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