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Offline aclassifier  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2019 18:58:42(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Trondheim
I have now had three faulty upgrades of MS2. All three worked before the upgrades:
  1. The first was a 60653 where I tried an upgrade from 1.3 to 2.5 (I think it was in 2013). It just turned black. SNR 40128
  2. The second another 60653 today, where I tried an upgrade from 2.5 to 3.55. It just turned black. SNR 61216
  3. The third also was today, a 60657 where I did an upgrade from 2.5 to 3.55 and it behaved strange, but ok for running locos, but showed strange characters in a menu. It did not help to "upgrade" from 3.55 to 3.55. SNR 142727
When I worked with embedded controllers we always made 100% safe bootloaders by having a desgin with a primary and a secondary bootloader, so that upgrade situations should not have catastrophic results. It does not seem like Märklin does this?

Should I send them for service (from Norway to Germany)? Is there any hidden button on the HW that I could press?

This has been shown at a blog note"MS2 3.55 problems" and the chapter below it. (Disclaimer: no ads, gift or money associated with my blog notes. Just fun and expenses.)

Edited by user 23 November 2019 22:31:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 24 November 2019 09:32:26(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
1. Do you have still warranty for your MS2? Leave it to your local shop where you did bought it.
2. Try to reset your MS2 and restart it. Not working? Fault possible.
3. Do you have CS2 or CS3? If not how did you upgrade your MS2? Contact this person who did upgraded your MS2.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

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Offline aclassifier  
#3 Posted : 24 November 2019 14:36:04(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
1. Do you have still warranty for your MS2? Leave it to your local shop where you did bought it.
2. Try to reset your MS2 and restart it. Not working? Fault possible.
3. Do you have CS2 or CS3? If not how did you upgrade your MS2? Contact this person who did upgraded your MS2.


Thanks, Goofy. I did it all myself, at the shop. The units simply shut down, or failed. The warranty is dubious, but it could be for the two newest (5 years in Norway). But failing during an attempted upgrade, I don't know.. No I don't have CS2 or CS3, and I guess it probably would not help with the two not-starting units, and probably not for the other either. And I don't know anybody who has a CS.

I guess that Marklin service would connect them over JTAG and flash the bootloader. And then upgrade. Simple as that. They should all be fine after that. But nobody here can do it, so I assume sending them to the Marklin service dep in Germany should be ok.

QUESTION ADDED
Could I delete the 3.55 file? Which name would that file have, if that were the case? I attach a list of the files:

ms2_60657_3.35_with_garbled_chars_files

Edited by user 24 November 2019 21:29:56(UTC)  | Reason: I added a question at the end

Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 25 November 2019 00:07:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,544
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
When I worked with embedded controllers we always made 100% safe bootloaders by having a desgin with a primary and a secondary bootloader, so that upgrade situations should not have catastrophic results. It does not seem like Märklin does this?
Maybe they do.
You can press the speed knob while plugging the MS2 into the CS2 to start the upgrade. In certain cases this revives bricked MS2s.
This may also work with a CS3.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline aclassifier  
#5 Posted : 25 November 2019 09:11:15(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
When I worked with embedded controllers we always made 100% safe bootloaders by having a desgin with a primary and a secondary bootloader, so that upgrade situations should not have catastrophic results. It does not seem like Märklin does this?
Maybe they do.
You can press the speed knob while plugging the MS2 into the CS2 to start the upgrade. In certain cases this revives bricked MS2s.
This may also work with a CS3.



I tried this with the working MS2 connected to a connector box and then starting each of the two dead 60653 and they did not come alive. And they are reported as "No approproate device on the bus". Thought it worth testing, even if I don't have CS3 (yet..?)

Offline aclassifier  
#6 Posted : 25 November 2019 10:24:06(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Trondheim
In addition to the question whether I could remove any of the files of the still somewhat alive MS2 (file list repeated here: ms2_60657_3.35_with_garbled_chars_files.jpg), I wonder about..

-> whether the connector box might cause this fault on the still somewhat alive 60657 MS2 and the two dead 60653 MS2 units? I have used several connector boxes, actually three!

But I noticed that the 3.55 60657 wanted to “Update railbox” from 1.39 to 1.41. I did as suggested. Could this have any relevance?
Offline TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 25 November 2019 17:06:53(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,054
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post

But I noticed that the 3.55 60657 wanted to “Update railbox” from 1.39 to 1.41. I did as suggested. Could this have any relevance?


Yes it has a relevance. Before you can use an updated MS 2 vers 3.55 for further updates, you MUST update the track box. Only with a track box vers 1.41 you are able to update another MS 2. By a controlling system based on a MS 2 and track box the GFP (Gleisformatprozeßor) is installed in the track box, not in the MS 2. But this GFP had to be updated as well.

Written procedure for MS 2 update by Maerklin.

https://www.maerklin.de/...rmationen/update_ms2.pdf

and a short video for it.



An update has nothing to do with the serial number. The grey and black MS 2 are technically identical. Only different article numbers. But the MS 2 with the lower serial marklin-users.neter is always the master, if you have 2 MS 2 at the same time at the track box. This you cannot alter. Also you only can use the database of the master MS 2. Having different locos on the slave you have to transfer them first to the master MS 2 before you get access. This includes you cannot handle a slave like the master one, e.g. deleting locos can only be done from the master MS 2.

We have at marklin-users.net another thread you obviously did not found. Have a look here please.

https://www.marklin-user...-for-32-Function-support

Unfortunately this thread is locked although I still have to write some information about updating the MS 2, but I cannot do and alter it.

If you still get this hieroglyphics at a MS 2 on screen, it happend to me several times too. As far as I can remember, (I have a CS 3+ as well, if I have problems with my 2 MS 2, I solve them mainly by using my CS 3+) I disconnected my MS 2 from track box and disconnected track box from the current. Waited 30 sec and then I did a restart and it should be going.
CS 3 is a controlling station from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline aclassifier  
#8 Posted : 25 November 2019 18:57:42(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post

.. Thanks a lot TEEWolf, for taking the time for such an extensive reply!


I had updated like in the recipe, except for the waiting for a minute, which I now assume might have been the cause of the problem in the shop. I had thought that message "Successful.." on the MS2 that already was updated was enough. Very strange behaviour that a unit is finished a minute after the acknowledement Crying

However, I repeated it with the long wait and I still get the hieroglyphics on the one to be updated. Plus, when I power it up it wants me to downgrade the track box to 1.39 from 1.41. I don't let it. So there is some problem here, and I did cause it that harm (or it failed) when I tried to update in the shop, with 1.41 but not having waited long enough. Because it worked fine before that exercise. So I will send it to Märklin.

Would you think that there is anything I could do with deleleting any of the files on the hieroglyphics MS2?

The other two remain completely dead and "No approproate device on the bus". I wil send them to Märklin.

In the video the guys talks about "MS2 and 3 update", as the heading also says. What is an MS3? Maybe he reckons the old MS as MS1, the grey "new" as MS2 and the black even newer as MS3? But I don't think this is according to Märklin nomenclature? As you also say TEEWolf, the grey and the black are alike except for the colour.

In the video he also says that upgrading an MS2 from another "mobile station, it will fail". Is this really what I am experiencing too, since I have not been able to update one black from the black that came with the starter kit with 3.55. I ended up with having the shop take that unit out and then sell it to me.





Offline rrf  
#9 Posted : 28 November 2019 20:07:07(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 238
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I have now had three faulty upgrades of MS2.

Hello Friends,

I was getting ready to update my MS2 using my CS3, to the latest code level before I give it to my son for his layout. It has a very early code level as I purchased it shortly after the MS2 came out. I only purchased my CS3 this year and have not performed any upgrades with it. After stumbling across this thread, I am now a little bit nervous. Is this something I shoud fearlessly move foward with or should I not risk turning my MS2 into a brick?

Thoughts please?

Thanks,

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 29 November 2019 01:00:31(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,054
Originally Posted by: rrf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I have now had three faulty upgrades of MS2.

Hello Friends,

I was getting ready to update my MS2 using my CS3, to the latest code level before I give it to my son for his layout. It has a very early code level as I purchased it shortly after the MS2 came out. I only purchased my CS3 this year and have not performed any upgrades with it. After stumbling across this thread, I am now a little bit nervous. Is this something I shoud fearlessly move foward with or should I not risk turning my MS2 into a brick?

Thoughts please?

Thanks,



Well this I wanted to express writing about my problems which were the same as the thread opener has. But I could solve them all with my CS 3+. So far you must not be frightend updating your appliances. Do it.

Unfortunately I did not document or remember exactly the steps I did solving the problems. First of all get the latest update for your CS 3. It at the moment software version 1.4.1 (0). At a CS 3 you find under system - system/settings - CS3 - info software version 1.4.1 (0). For the GFP 3 under system - system/settings - GFP3 - info version is 12.62.

Then just plug in at the front of a CS3 your MS2 and run the update. If it is not correctly done, do a bootloader update. More about this, you find only in the help function of the CS3, even for the MS2!

After updating your MS 2 to software version 3.55 and you have a track box, you must update your track box too. Only if your track box is updated too, allows an update with a MS 2 vers 3.55 to another MS 2 to vers 3.55.

As far as I remember, my faulty MS 2 was resetted to factory settings. I do not care about such a reset, because mainly I do have mfx locos, which registering themselves again. I use loco cards as a back-up medium for the locos at a MS 2 as well. And third having a CS 3, I always have fully access to the complete loco database of Maerklin locos and can transfer them form the CS 3 to a MS 2.
CS 3 is a controlling station from Märklin - not a central station.
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rrf
Offline rrf  
#11 Posted : 29 November 2019 13:58:25(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 238
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Thank you TEEWolf!

I'll give the CS3 to MS2 update a try later today :-)
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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Offline rrf  
#12 Posted : 01 December 2019 14:24:58(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 238
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

Yesterday, I updated my CS3+ to the lastest code level. I then shut it down and connected my MS2. Next I updated the MS2 and shutdown the CS3+ again. I disconnected the MS2 and connected it to its track box. When powered up, the MS2 asked if I wanted to update the track box and I responded yes. After the track box was updated the MS2 worked as expected. It even remembered the pre-update Lok list!

So all is good and my paranoia was unfounded.

Thanks again TEEWolf!



Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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