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Offline Johnvr  
#1 Posted : 05 November 2019 16:31:02(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,149
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi All

I am installing a 60985 MSD3 Sound Decoder into a Borsig.
As you know, the Borsig has funnels for 2 x 7226 Smoke Units.

Is there sufficient power in the AUX1 cable of the 60985 to connect to both of the Smoke Units in the Borsig together ?
Or, is there a possibility of blowing out the decoder by drawing too much power from the smoke units ?

Grateful for your thoughts.

RegardsBigGrin
John

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Offline ktsolias  
#2 Posted : 05 November 2019 17:25:50(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 407
Location: Athens
Hi

Every 5mm smoke generator is 130mW.
The AUX1 of the Decoder gives maximum 250mW and there is a relation as well with the consumption of the other AUX's.

So I think you need a relays or a transistor circuit. I had use the transistor in my 3302 BR 53

Regards

Costas
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 05 November 2019 17:46:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,533
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Every 5mm smoke generator is 130mW.
The AUX1 of the Decoder gives maximum 250mW and there is a relation as well with the consumption of the other AUX's.
I think it is 120 mA per smoke generator and 250 mA for the decoder output.

Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
So I think you need a relays or a transistor circuit.
You will need Seuthe #11 smoke generators when you add a relay that provides full track power to the smoke generator. With a relay you will lose the ability to dim the smoke generator with the decoder.

Maybe use AUX1 for one smoke generator and AUX2 for the other.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ktsolias  
#4 Posted : 05 November 2019 19:07:44(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 407
Location: Athens
Yes is mA no mW

The idea to use AUX1 and AUX2 is brilliant

Costas
Offline Dave Banks  
#5 Posted : 05 November 2019 22:23:54(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Or you could use a relay like I did in my Bigboy using 2 x Seuthe No 11's. That is 16 to 22V:

UserPostedImage

12v RELAY FOR OPERATION OF TWIN SMOKE UNITS.

Solder the following wires as indicated:

pin 1 To ground (black / brown wire)
pin 4 To pickup shoe or any power source.
pin 8 To contact tab of smoke units
pin 16 To decoder F1 or similar function

Edited by user 08 November 2019 10:15:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

D.A.Banks
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Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 05 November 2019 23:40:02(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Sout East Norway.
you can also look at the marklin amplifier board 613960
http://www.hanno-b.de/index.php?id=39
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Offline mvd71  
#7 Posted : 07 November 2019 20:39:16(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,053
Location: Auckland,
I did a few of these 10-15 years ago, and used the 7226 smoke units. From measurements taken at the time, the units would draw approx 180 mA each, and a starting peak for a split second of approx 230 mA.

I used a transistor and diode combined to create a solid state relay, and it worked perfectly on all the locos I converted. It is very cheap and reliable. For easy conversion, the off the shelf relay pictured that Dave has used would be a really tidy option.

Cheers...

Mike
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Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 07 November 2019 20:41:04(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,053
Location: Auckland,
Btw, using Aux1 and Aux2 is not a good idea, as you can exceed the total current capability of the decoder.

Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 07 November 2019 20:59:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,533
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Btw, using Aux1 and Aux2 is not a good idea, as you can exceed the total current capability of the decoder.
With 120 mA per smoke unit and a decoder limit of 1100 mA I still think this can be done. Even with 20 mA for the lights and 600 mA for the motor, you stay below the limit.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline bph  
#10 Posted : 07 November 2019 21:50:58(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Sout East Norway.
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Btw, using Aux1 and Aux2 is not a good idea, as you can exceed the total current capability of the decoder.
With 120 mA per smoke unit and a decoder limit of 1100 mA I still think this can be done. Even with 20 mA for the lights and 600 mA for the motor, you stay below the limit.



as long as you are aware that you might push the decoder spec, you can try it.
Some years ago, I refitted my 3502 with a 60901, and the 2x7226 is connected to Aux1 and Aux2. And it’s still working fine.
Offline Gregor  
#11 Posted : 08 November 2019 09:36:11(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 903
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Btw, using Aux1 and Aux2 is not a good idea, as you can exceed the total current capability of the decoder.
With 120 mA per smoke unit and a decoder limit of 1100 mA I still think this can be done. Even with 20 mA for the lights and 600 mA for the motor, you stay below the limit.



as long as you are aware that you might push the decoder spec, you can try it.
Some years ago, I refitted my 3502 with a 60901, and the 2x7226 is connected to Aux1 and Aux2. And it’s still working fine.


I did exactly the same, no problems for years.
I should mention however that I rarely use the smoke generators, but I have run the double smoke generator for minutes from completely full to empty and also kept them enabled while empty.

best regards,
Gregor
Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 08 November 2019 23:12:14(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,053
Location: Auckland,
Add up the numbers for worst case scenario of full load on everything. If it comes close to the total capacity of the decoder, then It would be prudent to use the relay to keep the load down on the decoder. Also keep in mind that older decoders such as the 60902 may have had larger safety buffer on their rated capacity then the newer decoders. But that would require someone with more technical knowledge than me to advise on

Anyway, my view is that it's beeper to keep the load down on the decoder to ensure long life.

Cheers...

Mike
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