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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 29 May 2019 09:02:54(UTC)
mike c

Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,665
Location: Montreal, QC
I decided to compare the new Roco SBB EW II coaches with some of my older models from Roco (EW II), Lima, Hag and the new Piko (EW I).
The first ones that I decided to compare were the coaches from the 44065 set, which included a Baggage car (D), a first class coach (A) and a pair of second class coaches (B). https://s3.amazonaws.com...b738-e091f5975601_00.jpg

The new and old coaches all come with the classic SBB + CFF/SBB + FFS markings (post 1965 with UIC numbering). The revision dates on the new models are from 1969. The revision dates on the coaches from the 44065 set are from 1970 and 1971 (D), meaning that these coaches could easily have run together during that time frame.

As has been reported in some of the German forums, the new coaches have a darker shade of green, which Roco has already used for the 45108/45109 EWII coaches from the pre-UIC era and for the 64361/364 set of coaches from the 1980s with the <+> SBB CFF FFS markings.
Both the new coaches and the ones from the 44065 set have silver roofs. The ones on the new models have a glossy appearance with a smooth texture. The ones on the older 44065 have a more matte finish with a grainy texture. I am guessing that the new models have the roof piece moulded in silver coloured plastic, while the older set has a painted roof.
The inscriptions on the newer models are a brighter shade of yellow, while the ones on the 44065 are more of a slightly darker mustard colour. The newer ones rand out more clearly at a distance.
The plastic window inserts of the new models have window panes that extend deeper into the frames, whereas the older models have windows that are slightly recessed. The windows on the actual coaches were not flush with the exterior, as they retracted into the coach body when the windows were opened. I can't say that the measurements are exact on the new ones, but the actual model would likely be close to that.
One additional difference that I have noted between the older and new models of the EWII B is that there seems to be some difference to the chassis. The original model had a box located underneath the Swiss crest on the SBB + CFF side, along with a smaller box under neath the window to the right of the last F in CFF. The newer model has the same box under the swiss crest, but the second box is shifted to the left and now sits directly under the last F in CFF. Additionally, there are two rectangular boxes situated on the chassis underneath the second and third window from the right on the same side. I remember a similar detail from the EWII A, but this feature was not on the older Roco EWII B. The new chassis of the EWII B has two sockets on the underside where the small box was located on the older models, suggesting that this detail can be added. I do not know if this means that the box on the newer models can be detached from it's current position and moved.
The older productions of the EWII coaches had yellow handrails that had to be glued to the coach body. More recent productions since the late 1990s have had sockets and more detailed yellow handrails could be inserted into position, which was a major improvement. The new models have those sockets. I have not inspected the handrail parts to see if they have evolved since the 1990s.
The actual door part is better detailed. the rubber moulding between the folding parts is painted or printed black. The knob is silver. As far as the windows in the door panes. The original model had a green plastic frame which protruded into the door part, with a small clear pane in the middle. On the newer model, the plastic is either missing or much finer and the clear pane is more visible and better rendered.
The interior is basically the same. The dividing wall between smoking and non-smoking compartments, which was originally integrated into the seating part, is now a transparent plastic piece, which includes two panes between rows of seats plus a door in the passageway. The dividers between the seating areas and the entranceways is still integrated into the main part and is painted green or red depending on which section.
I am trying to remember what the interior looked like originally, but I seem to recall that each seat (bench) had a metal frame with a luggage rack above and the divider between smoking and non-smoking was panelled wood with a metal door. I think that the modifications which were introduced in the 1980s consisted of a solid structure sail, with a glass door and glass panels above the seatbacks. I don't recall what changes might have been made when coaches were converted into Interregio (Papagei livery) or Regio (NPZ).
Both the new and older models have gangways with folding footboards, which can be folded up when the coach is at the start or end of a consist. Both newer and older models have impressions of where taillights would be. That feature was available on some models, but not on the current shell.
Due to the fact that websites often disappear over time, it has been difficult to find older photos. Most ones on the web today are from the period after 2000.
This one seems to match my recollection from the 70s and 80s (original):
This one matches my recollection from the late 1990s:
This one matches my recollection of the Comfortwagen from 1985:
At some point, the seats were modified, the luggage racks removed and replaced with a small handle that people walking in the aisle could grasp as they moved along. A new luggage rack above the windows was added on each side, similar to the newer EWIV coaches, as seen here:
The bogies seems to be the same parts on both versions. The generator is mounted on the new models, whereas it was an add-on part on the older models.
One of the disappointment of the newer models is that the details of the axle caps was not modified. This was a feature that I thought that Roco could improve on the model, whether it be the cover or the hoses and cables that are attached to them.
I still have to dig through my collection and fish out the original 4238/4239 from back in the days when Roco differentiated models with a letter after the number. I also have a number of other coaches that were released between 1978 and 2000. The originals had brown roofs with black aerators. The subsequent models had dark grey or silver roofs and either matching or missing aerators. Some models had the cutouts to mount the aerators, while others had a solid roof piece without them.
I also have a number of models with the newer liveries <+> SBB CFF FFS, the Comfort livery (stripe), the Interregio (IR aka Papagei) livery and the NPZ livery (EWII AB).
I will have to compare those models to the new ones to determine which ones can be used together, as well as seeing how well the coaches can be combined with my Lima, Hag and soon to arrive Piko EWI and my Maerklin, Trix and Liliput Lightsteel coaches and finally, with my AKU and RailTop pilot coaches.
More details and photos to follow.


Mike C

Edited by user 04 December 2019 08:16:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 25 June 2019 08:54:59(UTC)
mike c

Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,665
Location: Montreal, QC
I finally got the chance to dig through my collection.
In addition to these new models, I have the following green EWII in my collection:

A 2569 45109 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof (Era III)
A 582-5 4239S/44330 Red/Green Interior, Grey Roof***
A 572-6 44065 Red/Green Interior Silver Roof
A 602-1 74560 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof
AB 602-6 44248 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof, Taillight (AKU Model)
AB 545-7 43024 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof
B 8571 45108 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof (Era III)
B 691-9 43024 Red, Silver Roof
B 684-4 4238S/44325 Red/Green Interior, Brown Roof**
B 657-0 44325.1 Brown Interior, Grey Roof*
B 544-0 44065 Red Interior, Silver Roof
B 557-2 44065 Red Interior, Silver Roof
B 536-6 74562 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof
B 541-6 74563 Red/Green Interior, Silver Roof

AB 585-3 44337 Red/Green Interior, Grey Roof
AB 585-3 41312 Red/Green Interior, Grey Roof
B565-5 44324.3 Red Interior, Grey Roof
B538-2 44324.1 Red Interior, Grey Roof
B 507-7 41312 Red Interior, Grey Roof
B 512-7 41312 Red Interior, Grey Roof
B 510-1 64361 Red Interior, Grey Roof

I did not count the Komfort coaches (44341/44323, 64633, 64634) nor the Papagei IR livery (44495/44496) as I was focusing on the normal green livery only.
* Brown Interior comes from an earlier 4238S without close couplings. The coach originally came with a red interior.
** Red/Green Interior comes from a 4239C SOB coach. The original model had a red interior.
*** This model originally had a green interior. I swapped it with the red/green one from the 4239S with brown roof (see next paragraph)

Colorwise, all of the older models have a matching olive green livery. The original 4238S (B 684-4) had a darker shade of green, more compatible to the newer productions. I had an older 4239S (EWI A) with a brown roof and incorrect UIC numbering (84 NS instead of 85 SBB).

Some of my models were purchased by mail order from Switzerland and may have been special releases from Roco's Swiss distributor. Some of the models may have come in incorrect boxes (ebay/online). The cited model numbers came from http://gamos81.altervist...o/Carrozze/SBB/EW-II.htm as matched with the coach numbers.

Between the assorted models, in addition to the difference in livery, some models had slightly different coloured doors, some more gold, some more matte in shade.
The revision dates range from 1970 to 1985.

I have photos from the late 1960s through the 1980s showing these coaches having slightly different roof colours (exposure, rust, etc) so the variety looks pretty prototypical.
The older models have some differences in the size of the SBB + CFF markings. The coaches from the 43024 and the 44248 coach have smaller script. The rest of them are about the same.
The newer ones have stamp printed inscriptions and are a little more yellow than mustard coloured. Once again, the photos showed slight differences, so I can live with that.
Several of the more recent models (41312/64361/45108) came with interior fittings which had been modified for the Papagei IR version and had only one WC per coach. On most of my coaches, that part has been swapped out with the correct part from older used models used for parts. The problem was the lighting made the absence of the WC visible in use.

The next thing that I will have to do is to compare the models with my Hag (Lima), Lima and Piko EWI coaches to see which ones are most compatible together.
I will then have to do the same with my Maerklin/Trix and Liliput Lightsteel coaches and my LSM RIC Compartment coaches.

It is supposed to rain later today, so I will hopefully have the time to take a few pictures to add here.


Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 29 November 2019 05:38:54(UTC)
mike c

Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,665
Location: Montreal, QC
Finally, I made it to the train room and was able to pull some of my other SBB rolling stock out of their boxes to compare them to the newest Roco (EW II) and Piko (EW I) models.

When the first of the green RBe 4/4 models were released, there were complaints that the roof was too silver for the era of the model.
Some of the same complaints occurred when the EW I coaches were released, as the coaches represent the models in the 1980s with the <+> SBB CFF FFS logo and new markings.
I compared my models to the Lima (309297) and the Hag 480, both representing the same era. The roof colours are comparable. I now need to check in my photo collection to see whether the roof colour matches the prototype. The EW II coaches did receive over time a newer gray roof colour, which is rendered on the latest Roco models. I don't remember if this was applied to all coaches or only to those which were modified as Comfortwagen.

The differences between the roof colour of the various models would not look out of place, as different coaches had different degrees of rust and wear and tear and not all coaches were repainted at the same time, so a large variance would look perfectly normal.

The Piko coaches have the dual aerators on the centreline of the roof. I am also not sure whether this feature was not removed at some point in the lifespan of the coaches. The Hag, Lima and Liliput models of this coach type do not have this feature. The Roco EW II coaches show where they would be positioned, but the mountings are filled in on the models for Era IV.

I had the chance to take a few photos of the new Roco (EW II) and Piko (EW I) coaches and one of my Lima EW I coaches from around 1990.
The Hag EW I coaches use the same shells as the Lima coaches but with a metal chassis. The colors are the same as the Lima models.

Piko EW I B (L) - Roco EW II A (R)
Roof Color
Lima EW I B (L) - Piko EW I B (R)


Mike C

Edited by user 04 December 2019 08:14:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 04 December 2019 08:16:08(UTC)
mike c

Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,665
Location: Montreal, QC
I updated the last post with new photos taken this weekend.


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