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Offline kamstutz  
#1 Posted : 07 May 2019 19:03:56(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Union Pacific #4014 "Big Boy"

A friend sent me these yesterday and they are too good not to share (his comments too) with anyone that loves a steam engine.

The Union Pacific #4014 Big Boy has been fully restored and is making it's way to Utah to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Transcontinental Railroad. Some spectacular videos of the largest steam engine ever built are starting to appear on YouTube. There are plenty of steam chasers looking to follow this historic journey.

I cannot believe how these engines are being followed across vast areas !!!!





Incredible shot s of history…..Sherman Hill, that it was designed to pull huge trains over..!!!!! Where it roamed 60-80 years ago….





Incredible western countryside…..




The west…. Incredible scenery







And just when you think you should be alone, zillions of mile s from civilization, there are rolling traffic jams following the locomotives !!!! UNREAL !!!! Talk about stalking !!!! HOLY TRAFFIC JAM FAR FROM HOME !!!!





And talk about dropping your ride “in Gear” ( watch at 2:30 )……..my car should be so lucky ….and you can see the fire…!!!!! (Well, the car ain’t slow either…)



Enjoy,

Kurt
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Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 07 May 2019 19:50:59(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
It is very cool to see the old steam engines running again. I'm puzzled by one thing time and again though, and maybe the steam or restoration crowd can clarify this for me.
These old steam engines when running these days always seem to be assisted by one or more diesels along their runs. Why is that?
It makes it seem that the locomotive really doesn't have the power needed and is that 90 year old that needs an arm to help them walk. Is it just a rail policy that due to the reliability of even a proper running steam engine, in 2019 one must have the ability to get them off the line if need be, so a much higher reliability diesel has to assist?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline kamstutz  
#3 Posted : 07 May 2019 20:01:28(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
...assisted by one or more diesels along their runs. Why is that?


While not 100% sure someone told me once that the diesels come along for the ride to provide electricity to the passenger coaches through their onboard generators. The steam engines might not have had generators to provide power to the coaches. Seems like a possible explanation. Perhaps those more familiar with steam prototypes could provide more insight. My gut feeling is that the diesels are not needed to provide backup power to the steam locomotive - especially one the size of the Big Boy, but I could be wrong.

Kurt
Offline utkan  
#4 Posted : 07 May 2019 21:42:13(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
It is very cool to see the old steam engines running again. I'm puzzled by one thing time and again though, and maybe the steam or restoration crowd can clarify this for me.
These old steam engines when running these days always seem to be assisted by one or more diesels along their runs. Why is that?
It makes it seem that the locomotive really doesn't have the power needed and is that 90 year old that needs an arm to help them walk. Is it just a rail policy that due to the reliability of even a proper running steam engine, in 2019 one must have the ability to get them off the line if need be, so a much higher reliability diesel has to assist?


I have seen many examples of steam engines escorted with a diesel or an electric engine in Germany. But never seen a steam running alone...Even the thunder box coaches, which need no extra energy as far as I know,going to Dahlhausen from Bochum accompanied by a diesel...so what I believe no one dares to run a steam alone..
As the expression goes... 2 cents...BigGrin

ps: but it is a great event I must admit...Cool
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
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Offline fkowal  
#5 Posted : 07 May 2019 23:39:25(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Toronto
I would think the use of an electric or diesel locomotive to assist a steam loco would make very much sense from a cost of maintenance perspective. Running a stem loco at 100% rated load will necessitate much quicker drive shaft bearing replacement than running the loco at 50% load. The general public, me included, will probably be satisfied to see the grace of movement, the whistle, and the aura of first hand experience with a massive fire eating beast.
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Offline fkowal  
#6 Posted : 07 May 2019 23:50:56(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Toronto
I would think the use of an electric or diesel locomotive to assist a steam loco would make very much sense from a cost of maintenance perspective. Running a stem loco at 100% rated load will necessitate much quicker drive shaft bearing replacement than running the loco at 50% load. The general public, me included, will probably be satisfied to see the grace of movement, the whistle, and the aura of first hand experience with a massive fire eating beast.
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Offline fkowal  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2019 23:52:06(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Toronto
I would think the use of an electric or diesel locomotive to assist a steam loco would make very much sense from a cost of maintenance perspective. Running a stem loco at 100% rated load will necessitate much quicker drive shaft bearing replacement than running the loco at 50% load. The general public, me included, will probably be satisfied to see the grace of movement, the whistle, and the aura of first hand experience with a massive fire eating beast.
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Offline jerdenberg  
#8 Posted : 08 May 2019 11:45:56(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,011
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
There is a very simple explanation for the presence of the diesel. The railroad cannot afford any possible delays of its freight trains in case there is a problem with a steam engine, so the diesel is there as a backup. In addition, the diesel in the 4014/844 consist was used in a test to simulate a heavy load (full dynamic braking), as described by the editor of Trains Magazine, who had the privilege of riding in the cabin 4014 last Saturday.

Jeroen

Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline mgbeck_98  
#9 Posted : 08 May 2019 17:09:56(UTC)
mgbeck_98

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
All the reasons are valid, but mostly to give a load to the engine. In most cases the Diesels are in full dynamic braking giving a load to the engines.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
It is very cool to see the old steam engines running again. I'm puzzled by one thing time and again though, and maybe the steam or restoration crowd can clarify this for me.
These old steam engines when running these days always seem to be assisted by one or more diesels along their runs. Why is that?
It makes it seem that the locomotive really doesn't have the power needed and is that 90 year old that needs an arm to help them walk. Is it just a rail policy that due to the reliability of even a proper running steam engine, in 2019 one must have the ability to get them off the line if need be, so a much higher reliability diesel has to assist?


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Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 08 May 2019 17:54:55(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So they are indeed not reliable enough to risk running them by themselves and the engines cannot be run below a certain power level or they cannot be run at idle power over distance?
Old tech has its limitations.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline rbw993  
#11 Posted : 08 May 2019 18:23:14(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
The diesels do supply HEP, Head End Power, electricity for car heating and air conditioning. Passenger cars haven't been set up for steam heat for years. Passenger diesels in the transitional era had steam boilers in them to provide the steam heat to the cars.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 08 May 2019 18:43:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I suspect there may be another reason as well, the old steam locos may not be set up for modern signalling systems, so the modern diesel is there to provide that interface.

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Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 08 May 2019 20:28:55(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
The diesels do supply HEP, Head End Power, electricity for car heating and air conditioning. Passenger cars haven't been set up for steam heat for years. Passenger diesels in the transitional era had steam boilers in them to provide the steam heat to the cars.


Fair enough, but his isn't regular passenger service, its a daytime ride in April May; what need for heat is there? Open the windows for ventilation. Its daytime. If they really needed to tow a pamper spa hotel behind the loco for the dignitaries that makes the whole thing even worse in my mind. And could the refurb for the Big Boy not have added a generator to the locomotive to provide power if they really intend to use it to pull passenger cars where power is needed?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline utkan  
#14 Posted : 08 May 2019 21:39:06(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
I feel a bit guilty by deemphasizing this wonderful event. Blushing Blushing

This has been a great incident from every respect....Wub I wish I had had a chance to see HIM with my naked eyes....Wub

Please forgive me if I have been understood in this way...Blushing Blushing
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 09 May 2019 11:37:26(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
It is very cool to see the old steam engines running again. ..
It makes it seem that the locomotive really doesn't have the power needed ....


In the mid-1940s to early 50s the ElectroMotiveDivision (EMD) of General Motors were busy convincing the railroads to buy diesel electric engines.
They were to replace the steam engines.
But it required 4 of the new engines (at 1500hp each) to do what a Big Boy or the like could do (with 6000hp).
So it cost 4 times to replace 1 steam engine.
Of course there were many long term advantages in modernising (using Total Cost of Ownership calculations).

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#16 Posted : 09 May 2019 13:45:12(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Even though below thread is about the UP 3985 Challenger, I reckon it demonstrates that power is not the issue for these huge steamers:

https://www.trainorders....sion/read.php?11,1766517

What I read somewhere in a Model Railroader article is that providing head end power is the reason for a diesel loco accompanying railfan trains.

Edited by user 09 May 2019 18:03:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline hvc  
#17 Posted : 22 May 2019 00:26:28(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 411
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
I was lucky enough to be able to be in Wyoming over the weekend (I was in Seattle for work and flew to Denver for the weekend). I chased 4014 from Laramie to Cheyenne - the very end of of it's inaugural multi-week trip. Here is it slowly pulling it's train out of the siding at Laramie:

(have your sound turned up before you start the video)




Also here it is in fog just after the top of Sherman Hill, at Buford, near the highest point on the way back to Cheyenne:



H.
- Herman
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