Hi Michel,

All the software (commercial or free) driving model railroad share the same concepts when related to automation: blocks (a logical concept), sensors (or whatever they are called in the software) located inside the blocks, and routes (or whatever they are called in the software) which are oriented segments (again a logical concept) of traffic used to join the blocks together.

Sensors are most of the time physical stuff, which are connected to an entry of a S88 feedback device (contact track, reed, optical sensor, etc...)
A sensor generates an event, which in then managed by the software in order to know what to do.
Sensors are the "eyes" of the software, in order manage correctly the things.

Some events, instead of being the result of a physical sensor being triggered, may also be the result of some timers managed by the software.

My advice is : Choose the software you are the more comfortable with.
The criteria are : understanding, support, documentation, features, price.

All these software are very complex, and most of them have a broad range of features.
They also have a learning curve, which may vary depending on the software.
The most complex thing to understand is generally the automation.

Last advice: Start with something simple first
1) Connect the CS and test the communication
2) Add one loco to the software and interact manually with it to drive the loco
3) Add some switches to the software and interact manually with them and the loco
4) Then you are ready to start dealing with automation (blocks, sensors and routes)

Have fun
Fabrice

Hello Fabrice and Dale,

Thanks you for the inspiration and you help!

I must say that help is what I am after and coincidentally we certainly live in a small world! Because a friend of mine who inspired me to pursue model train control years ago is active again in this wonderful hobby of ours! I found out by reading the forums and saw his name on a post dated this passed April. And so I just phoned him up and had a wonderful chat about my quest with him this afternoon. What a wonderful world we live in!

also , favored OS can also come into play....

Hello Michel,

Here is a thought for you, an "inconvenient truth" if you don't mind ...

You need to design your automation almost before you lay your track.
Automation requires sensors and blocks all around your layout, especially around station entry and exit points, but also on the main lines.
I know that you have already started laying your track, but you are still in the early stages, so attaching sensor wires is still possible for you.

Regards
John

Hi Michel,

Related to contact tracks (i.e. sensors for later automation ) with C-track, you have three main options:
-Buy the set of cut tracks provided by Marklin ->OK, but may be expensive at last, and it exists only for straight pieces of tracks...
-Do them yourself, by cutting some pieces of rails with a dremel or similar... Nothing special to say on this, except it is a definitive change, but it's up to you
-Do them yourself, by cutting the right bit of electrical conductor below the pieces of track, and then use some insulators between the right contacts.

This later option is the simpler, less expensive and not definitive (you may solder later the electrical conductor cut previously).
However, be warned that an insulated piece of track done with this method may touch the rail of the next piece of track (non-insulated). If this is the case, then your sensor will be always on, thus is useless for feedback detection.
As a result if you use this method, inspect carefully if an "insulated" rail doesn't touch the next one when joining the tracks, in order to have a correct S88 feedback.

Experts of C-track (I'm not) may provide a tip to avoid such unpleasant situation.

Best
fabrice

The trick with C track is to very closely inspect that there is an an actual gap between the rail ends. Let’s say you have 3 pieces of straight track like 24188 and you want to turn one of them into a homemade contact track.

After you cut the taps underneath and installed the red isolators and clicked the tracks together, then take a torch a shine at the rail gap. You will notice some rail gaps are quite large and sufficient while others much narrow. And many times the rail end is not actually a 90 degree but an angle towards each other. So in that case you need to file away some of the steel at end of the rail.

Another common mistake is to install the red insulator wrongly as you keep flipping the tracks over.

So best advice once your done take you cheap multi meter and check for electrical continuity. If you got a beep you haven’t isolated properly.

Best Regards
Lasse

Hello Lasse and Serge,

I just posted what I had found out about the Märklin C track “GAPS” between adjacent pieces. Perfect for contact tracks! Every single piece that has been isolated has been checked with my multi meter and electrical continuity is isolated. Don't forget they are the sections where the red insulator was installed. Please be advised that when you nip the inner rail tab make sure that there is a good 3 mm gap. I had a problem with a piece of track and couldn’t find it until that piece of track with the “touching tab” was inspected with my magnifying glasses. That's how I found it, that son of a gun was causing that short unbelievable actually!

Hi
Very interesting discussion Thank you all
My remarks:
- the best moment to adjust sensors is when C tracks are laid (not yet screwd) but without landscape
- I fully agree with Fabrice about gaps. Initially it works but after a while (repairs on tracks, switch motors, etc it happens that 1 or 2 among the 100+ insulation that one is failing so better increase the gap when too small
- I am a Rocrail enthusiast It is free, support is excellent and possibilities are better than competition
Cheers
Jean

Message deleted

I'm sorry, but your obstinacy in pretending that Rocrail is better than any other irritates me so much, but it doesn't matter.

I share the fact that you are happy with your software as I am happy with mine.

You want a comparison? Here's what I think about the two softwares

- personally the only advantage of Rocrail is that it is free.

-Itrain is affordable and significantly cheaper than Traincontroller.

-The TCO of Rocrail is awful to me, the one of Itrain is prettier, less loaded on the screen
.
-Both are equal in terms of possibilities.

But I don't care about any of this. The only thing that matters to me is that the software gives me what I expect from it. And Itrain gives it to me as Rocrail gives you what you expect from him.

I will never pretend that what I use, contemplates using is better than what someone intends to use or uses.

We're free!

Thewolf

Edited by moderator 25 June 2020 03:44:17(UTC)  | Reason: Removed quoting of videos as we don't need to see them twice!

Hi Michael
It seems that I'm a little late to the voting (only about six months )

I am using, or more correctly am planning on using Rocrail once I start building my layout.
I have not been settle in one location for awhile now, but hope to be within a few months. And then start to work on the layout.

One of the things that I enjoy about Rocrail is that you can connect it with 3D Train Studio. You can design a layout in 3D Train studio and then have Rocrail control this virtual layout. Which is a great way to learn many of the function of Rocrail.

Hi Pfalzbahn

Another excellent choice is Rocrail. It is made by a team of passionate people, it is free, powerful.
I use it with my CS2 for train control not only a one way management but also on my train depot with a turntable and all branch lines
Here is one view of its operation

Here is the humping yard

It can manage (it does on my layout) all cars and wagons to compute the length of trains and decide if a train can enter a given block.
Staging yard are available (possibility to store multiple trains behind each other on a given track. This one is not mine as mine is in a shadow station and not visible.

There are plenty of other features, a forum in English, German, Italian, Dutch, French, a new release is made once a day (not to correct mistakes but to improve the product).
It accomodates approx 30 different types of central stations and control system.
It is one of the best for sure and the best in my opinion
Cheers
Jean

I notice you mention "manuals". There really is no manual for Rocrail, but they have online information in the form of numerous WIKIs. This can be quite a challenge because some of the WIKIs were written years ago and a lot of the screenshots no longer represent what you may see when you download the latest "Build" of Rocrail. Don't let that discourage you. I have been using Rocrail for 7 years now and over the years have managed to work my way through the appropriate WIKI and used the Rocrail Forum when I could not locate current information.

Peter

Hello Pfalzbahn,

I won't answer your question directly, but I would like to raise a few important points when planning an automated layout with such a size.

1) When the layout is very big, it is not recommended to have a single ground connecting all the boosters together.
See marklin recommendation on this topic: https://www.maerklin.de/...e/technical-information/
As a result this may generate more wiring for S88 bus, and possible use of more than one L88.

2) Of course, you have to plan before laying the tracks, all your blocks and feedback contacts. The number of feedback contacts may be high, but with a number of L88 devices, the previous limit of 496 contacts (31x16) is no more a problem

3) you have to choose which kind of feedback to use: The most common is ground detection (S88AC or equivalent devices), but this kind of detection is not always reliable and sometimes sensitive to crosstalk and various issues. A much reliable way is to use current consumption detection (S88DC or equivalent devices) but this may have some drawbacks...

4) you have to decide if signals will cut the power off or not. In an automated layout, there is no need to cut the power. It is entirely managed by the software.

5) Select a software which is able:
5.1) to cut the power in case of unwanted event only in the district (i.e. the area powered by a booster) where the unwanted event occurs
5.2) which allows combination of manual and automated trafic
...and a software you are comfortable with and which is actively maintained and have a community of users able to provide some answers

From my point of view, the main topic to study in the "power" topic -not directly related to software, but it may guide you to some choices

And finally, I'm personally using Rocrail since 2011 and I'm very pleased with it, even if sometimes I'd like to do things in an other way... but nothing is perfect.

HTH
Fabrice

Hello Jean and Fabrice,

you have given me a lot of material to think about for which I am very grateful. Now I need some time to digest all your points.

My tracks and switches (with m83 decoders) are all installed. Signals are not installed yet but the track in front of every signal is current isolated (1 flex-track, 90cm). I use 3 boosters to feed 3 track sections. A 4th booster plus 3 analog transformers supply accessories and lighting. And they all have one common ground. My head is spinning!

For now I need a good night's sleep.

Thanks again,

Pfalzbahn