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Offline ShannonN  
#1 Posted : 02 April 2019 03:28:35(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Hello all,
After watching this video
I found myself wanting to apply the technique to my railway. I already have many of the same magnets used in the video.

My question is: while these work well on 2 rail track as shown will the 3rd rail affect or be affected by the magnets and cause power fluctuations, corrupt digital signal etc?

I ask as I was taught many moons ago in school that magnetism is closely related to electricity?
It is unknown if the 2 rail system this was tested on in the video is DC or DCC

A Better example video is here

My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 02 April 2019 05:53:44(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi Shannon, what couplers do you have already?

Do you intend to retrofit to the Kaydee type shown if you don't already have them?

Those are quite strong magnets and you may encounter the "law of unforeseen circumstances" by inducing unintended results in the magnetically reactive metal parts of your Locos or Rolling stock as a result.

Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline lewistrain  
#3 Posted : 02 April 2019 06:22:00(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
The stationary magnetic field will have almost zero effect on the track electrical system, similar to the effect it has on you.
But like cookee said, this is more for kadee couplers.
If you have kadees go right ahead, it wont hurt at all.
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by lewistrain
Offline ShannonN  
#4 Posted : 02 April 2019 06:22:57(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi Shannon, what couplers do you have already?

Do you intend to retrofit to the Kaydee type shown if you don't already have them?

Those are quite strong magnets and you may encounter the "law of unforeseen circumstances" by inducing unintended results in the magnetically reactive metal parts of your Locos or Rolling stock as a result.

Cheers


Hi Cookie
No had not intended to retrofit Kadees, I tested a temp unpowered piece of track and rolled a loco and a car over the magnet area these are using std Marklin Relex couplers, worked fine, that is magnets forced the ring upwards and released carriage


With regards to your comment: you may encounter the "law of unforeseen circumstances" by inducing unintended results in the magnetically reactive metal parts of your Locos or Rolling stock as a result.

How does this method differ from store bought magnetic uncoupler tracks apart from magnet strength and one being electromagnetic?

Do you suggest that electromagnets being able to be unpowered are safer for trains?
I'm just curious and trying to save money where I can
Blessings Shanny





My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 02 April 2019 09:09:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi Shannon, what couplers do you have already?

Do you intend to retrofit to the Kaydee type shown if you don't already have them?

Those are quite strong magnets and you may encounter the "law of unforeseen circumstances" by inducing unintended results in the magnetically reactive metal parts of your Locos or Rolling stock as a result.

Cheers


Hi Cookie
No had not intended to retrofit Kadees, I tested a temp unpowered piece of track and rolled a loco and a car over the magnet area these are using std Marklin Relex couplers, worked fine, that is magnets forced the ring upwards and released carriage


With regards to your comment: you may encounter the "law of unforeseen circumstances" by inducing unintended results in the magnetically reactive metal parts of your Locos or Rolling stock as a result.

How does this method differ from store bought magnetic uncoupler tracks apart from magnet strength and one being electromagnetic?

Do you suggest that electromagnets being able to be unpowered are safer for trains?
I'm just curious and trying to save money where I can
Blessings Shanny



"worked fine, that is magnets forced the ring upwards and released carriage"

Is it still April 01 where you are?

This I would need to see in action - does not make sense unless the couplers were already themselves magnetised to the opposing magnetic polarity. But this is a good example of what I was talking about. if you were to do this, I wonder if you may run the risk of progressively inducing magnetism into those couplers to the point that residual magnetism in the metal parts may exhibit weird behaviour?

Having said that, I must admit that in my mind's eye, I do have all-metal Relex couplers, the plastic/metal versions of the past 3-4 decades might behave in other ways?

As for the effects of store bought uncouplers, I can only comment on the Märklin version (because I am one-eyed and nothing else exists - except Faller AMS) of the magnetically controlled uncoupling track where the solenoid that operates the 'ramp' is electrically powered so the magnetism required is only momentary, and the coil is alongside the track, not directly under the coaches. This of course is quite different to the operation of the Kaydee type.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline ShannonN  
#6 Posted : 02 April 2019 11:04:02(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Quote:

"worked fine, that is magnets forced the ring upwards and released carriage"

Is it still April 01 where you are?

This I would need to see in action - does not make sense unless the couplers were already themselves magnetised to the opposing magnetic polarity. But this is a good example of what I was talking about. if you were to do this, I wonder if you may run the risk of progressively inducing magnetism into those couplers to the point that residual magnetism in the metal parts may exhibit weird behaviour?

Having said that, I must admit that in my mind's eye, I do have all-metal Relex couplers, the plastic/metal versions of the past 3-4 decades might behave in other ways?

As for the effects of store bought uncouplers, I can only comment on the Märklin version (because I am one-eyed and nothing else exists - except Faller AMS) of the magnetically controlled uncoupling track where the solenoid that operates the 'ramp' is electrically powered so the magnetism required is only momentary, and the coil is alongside the track, not directly under the coaches. This of course is quite different to the operation of the Kaydee type.


No its april 2nd now. I'm neither bullshitting or lying! the couplers are metal and react to the magnets. What more is there to say, give me a few days and I'll produce the video to prove (seeing you disbelieve) and then we can discuss why it works. is it good or should I pay silly prices for the Marklin uncouplers just because they are Marklin, expensive and momentary? (by comparison to virtually free using existing components)?

My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ShannonN
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 02 April 2019 13:26:12(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Quote:

"worked fine, that is magnets forced the ring upwards and released carriage"

Is it still April 01 where you are?

This I would need to see in action - does not make sense unless the couplers were already themselves magnetised to the opposing magnetic polarity. But this is a good example of what I was talking about. if you were to do this, I wonder if you may run the risk of progressively inducing magnetism into those couplers to the point that residual magnetism in the metal parts may exhibit weird behaviour?

Having said that, I must admit that in my mind's eye, I do have all-metal Relex couplers, the plastic/metal versions of the past 3-4 decades might behave in other ways?

As for the effects of store bought uncouplers, I can only comment on the Märklin version (because I am one-eyed and nothing else exists - except Faller AMS) of the magnetically controlled uncoupling track where the solenoid that operates the 'ramp' is electrically powered so the magnetism required is only momentary, and the coil is alongside the track, not directly under the coaches. This of course is quite different to the operation of the Kaydee type.


No its april 2nd now. I'm neither bullshitting or lying! the couplers are metal and react to the magnets. What more is there to say, give me a few days and I'll produce the video to prove (seeing you disbelieve) and then we can discuss why it works. is it good or should I pay silly prices for the Marklin uncouplers just because they are Marklin, expensive and momentary? (by comparison to virtually free using existing components)?


All good, I'm not saying I disbelieve, I've just never seen it so I'm curious. BigGrin the video will be interesting to watch

Perhaps others are already also doing something similar and can add their experiences?

Edited by user 03 April 2019 07:03:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline lewistrain  
#8 Posted : 02 April 2019 13:56:52(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Perhaps the relex couplers have become slightly magnetic from interaction with magnets? Donald trump is the president of the USA so literally anything is possible.
If i had some at hand i would test this right now.
Very interested shannon, keep it coming.
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 02 April 2019 21:26:12(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,970
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Ferrous metals do react to magnets - they would get attracted to the magnet, not repulsed by it, unless the coupler ferrous part already had a magnetism applied to it. Then the question is, how long will the magnetism on the coupler part last.

The benefit of an electromagnet is it puts out no magnetic field if turned off -so rolling stock passing it are not affected. Permanent magnets are projecting a magnetic field constantly, so rolling stock passing over them will, each time they pass, very slowly be getting more and more magnetized (the way you magnetize a screwdriver tip for example). This could affect the ability to uncouple cars long term possibly, if the parts of couplers begin sticking to each other due to magnetic attraction, just as one consequence.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline DTaylor91  
#10 Posted : 03 April 2019 02:47:51(UTC)
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 367
Location: Kennesaw, GA
The Kadee coupler system work with the magnet as follows: The coupler itself is non-magnetic metal (for the standard HO coupler), or Delrin (for the smaller ones). The "air lines" attached to the coupler react to the magnet by forcing the "air lines" away from each other. Since these are connected to the knuckle, the magnetic field causes the couplers to open. In other words, the field acts on the couplers laterally, not vertically.

Unless you can magnetize the loops on a Märklin coupler to be repelled by a magnet (i.e., pushed upwards), I cannot think of a way that any kind of passive magnetic field could uncouple them.
Offline rhfil  
#11 Posted : 14 April 2019 02:03:22(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 25
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Why not use an uncoupler track and avoid the whole problem of magnetic effects on the loco motors, the decoders and the cars?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by rhfil
Offline ShannonN  
#12 Posted : 14 April 2019 09:28:20(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 425
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Why not use an uncoupler track and avoid the whole problem of magnetic effects on the loco motors, the decoders and the cars?


I can't afford the uncouplers not all of us have jobs anymore or have our own houses etc.
On a pension, renting leaves very little for anything else.

My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
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