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Offline HO Collector  
#1 Posted : 16 March 2019 18:11:55(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 195
Location: Just north of London
After securing my manager's (wife) cooperation I started to think about the next stages and need to make some decisions.

Most of my engines and all the accessories are analogue (M tracks). I understand that digital engines can be ran on an analogue layout but my logic tells me that analogue can't be ran on digital as digital is constantly 'live'. Am I correct?

I read on the digital section of this forum that there is a decoder that will transform M track accessory to digital type. I have search and found these decoders but the price is rather high, therefor I am looking for a cheaper solution.
Is there a way to mix the two? Can C tracks be operated as analogue and if so do I also need to purchase all new C track accessories?

The point is that I have large number of M tracks and accessories, some that have never been used which I don't feel like selling for pennies just to buy the C track's for pounds.

Any suggestion is welcome.

Thanks

Ben
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Offline mbarreto  
#2 Posted : 16 March 2019 18:34:37(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257

Hello,

The voltage in the tracks of a digital system is always "live" as you say, so the analogue train will be move at high speed.
Digital can be used for controlling accessories, turnouts, crossings, etc and it doesn't depend if it is M track or C track. You can use your M track without any problems. C track has better electrical connection than M track, but that wil not be a problem, specially if, as you say, your M track is like new. If the electrical connections had rust, then yes, it was most probably a problem.
Except for specific decoders for M track or C track, the accessores decoders are not dependent on the track system. You can use for example the 60832 with M, C or K track.
You can also run the trains digitally and continue with the turnouts and accessories in analogue, or vice-versa.

Regards

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline petestra  
#3 Posted : 16 March 2019 18:39:20(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Originally Posted by: HO Collector Go to Quoted Post
After securing my manager's (wife) cooperation I started to think about the next stages and need to make some decisions.

Most of my engines and all the accessories are analogue (M tracks). I understand that digital engines can be ran on an analogue layout but my logic tells me that analogue can't be ran on digital as digital is constantly 'live'. Am I correct?

I read on the digital section of this forum that there is a decoder that will transform M track accessory to digital type. I have search and found these decoders but the price is rather high, therefor I am looking for a cheaper solution.
Is there a way to mix the two? Can C tracks be operated as analogue and if so do I also need to purchase all new C track accessories?

The point is that I have large number of M tracks and accessories, some that have never been used which I don't feel like selling for pennies just to buy the C track's for pounds.

Any suggestion is welcome.

Thanks

Ben



Hello Ben. I've been with Marklin for a long time. 1964 childhood until 2013 analog. I went digital in late 2013, quite late and I'm glad I did now. Anyway, my layout

is using my old M track and the new C track. All Loks were converted and the most of my accessories are still controlled analog. Around 20 new digital ones

are controlled digitally on the CS3 for the last 3 years. So you can proceed at your own pace, etc. Have fun. Peter. Cool
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Offline sjbartels  
#4 Posted : 16 March 2019 23:37:22(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
You can most certainly completely digitize M track, I've done it. I have also successfully used K83 and M83 decoders to operate M track switches/points using my CS2. One thing to be mindful of however is connecting anything digital to M track, make sure your feeder track DOES NOT contain the suppressor - otherwise you will get a whistling through the tracks. If you have any analogue locomotives that you would like to run on a Digital track, having them converted to digital control isn't difficult, I have several in which I have done this. If you're unsure how, there are many here who can assist you, or if you prefer, many reputable dealers who can perform the conversion for you.
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline HO Collector  
#5 Posted : 18 March 2019 21:59:44(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 195
Location: Just north of London
Thank you guys, very helpful, good to know that I don't have to get all new tracks. There are some models , like the 3025, 3015 and probably some other that I will never convert but still want to run, so I guess that X2 circuits will be required. Is it correct to assume that an insulator tab in between the conducting (live/positive) track connectors will provide the required separation or do I also need to insulate the rails (negative/earth)?

The more I think about the objectives that I want to achieve I realise that some are jut hot air balloons (like running water in water falls and moving boats in canals).
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Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 21 March 2019 17:05:52(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: HO Collector Go to Quoted Post
Thank you guys, very helpful, good to know that I don't have to get all new tracks. There are some models , like the 3025, 3015 and probably some other that I will never convert but still want to run, so I guess that X2 circuits will be required. Is it correct to assume that an insulator tab in between the conducting (live/positive) track connectors will provide the required separation or do I also need to insulate the rails (negative/earth)?

The more I think about the objectives that I want to achieve I realise that some are jut hot air balloons (like running water in water falls and moving boats in canals).


Hi
Be careful when mixing digital and analogue. The reverse pulse on old blue transformers can fry decoders. However common ground is possible. Ref this thread:
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t33783-Question-on-digital-layout-power

So personally I wold have made the analogue track completely isolated from the digital DC track.
Offline HO Collector  
#7 Posted : 21 March 2019 22:50:16(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 195
Location: Just north of London
bph

Thanks for that . I remember reading about it somewhere but by then it was a bit late as I think that one got damaged, not sure but I will know soon. What I plan to do is to have two layouts, one analogue and one digital, however, the accessories will be operated the old fashion way. I plan to buy an old MS2 and slowly learn the art of the digital world.

Ben
Online river6109  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2019 07:16:04(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,631
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ben, the wiring needs 2 wires on both systems: brown and red., if you want signals you need more wires, if you want automatic train control: you need more wires, if your layout is larger than normal you need extra contact wires, if you have a rail crossing you need more wires, if your digital trains have an automatic braking system you need more wires and than there are electronic components which need more wires., so just make sure you're wired up.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2019 09:15:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My own layout can be operated in either analogue or digital mode at the flick of one switch. To enable this to happen I have several switched isolated sections so that in analogue mode the trains not running can remain stopped. In digital running all the switches for the isolated sections are switched on.

My current loco collection runs at around 170, of which about 10 are analogue, so I don't often get around to running the analogue trains. However as I run the trains in strict rotation they do get their turn about once every six months.

All my accessories are still run in analogue manner without decoders, using the traditional control boxes.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Online river6109  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2019 10:41:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,631
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
My own layout can be operated in either analogue or digital mode at the flick of one switch. To enable this to happen I have several switched isolated sections so that in analogue mode the trains not running can remain stopped. In digital running all the switches for the isolated sections are switched on.

My current loco collection runs at around 170, of which about 10 are analogue, so I don't often get around to running the analogue trains. However as I run the trains in strict rotation they do get their turn about once every six months.

All my accessories are still run in analogue manner without decoders, using the traditional control boxes.


Some one is spoiled for choices BigGrin

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Michael4  
#11 Posted : 22 March 2019 14:29:00(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Ben,

If you have spent a fair bit of your working life staring at screens and working with technology that you hardly understand then sticking with analogue is very rewarding and a lot of fun. The process of creating the layout and its wiring can make for plenty of personal satisfaction.

What is more, it has a whiff of nostalgia about it!

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Offline HO Collector  
#12 Posted : 22 March 2019 22:51:29(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 195
Location: Just north of London
John
I have many many wires, some are still rolled up. As a kid I had the house twice a year for my trains. The tracks and wires ran from the living room to the hallway to the bedrooms and back

Michael
I have to agree. Usually it took me 2-3 days to set the tracks, wire it up and de-bug the layout, every time the layout was different, no plans or anything, everything was in the head. The fun was setting it, it was ok to run it and a day of nightmare to box it all.


This evening a friend dropped in and left behind a box with a brand new MS starter kit and C tracks, if I like it its mine, if not it's his.

Ben
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