Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#1 Posted : 16 March 2019 00:48:56(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: England, Cambridge
Hi,

I received the new BR64 (88742) yesterday. Very smooth runner, it will be interesting to see how it behaves once run in a bit. My first impression is that it has slightly less traction than its five-pole counterpoint, but I might be wrong there. I can't help thinking that people with Marklin Controllers will be frustrated - as even at the lowest setting it starts moving quite a pace.

This year's models seem to have some interesting innovations - not least the metal loaded body shells. Does anyone here have any thoughts as to how much weight they will actually add? I can't help thinking it won't be enough to make significant improvement to the traction. (I know, it's an obsession of mine. Forgive me.)

Changing the subject, older three axle diesel/electric locos seemed to feature all-axle drive, whilst more recent ones only two axle per bogie drive. (I wonder what they'll do with 88634 and 88635?) To my mind, this is a backward step - the more wheels driven the better - more traction and less drag, but maybe I'm missing some basic physics. In any case I'd e interested to hear other people's thoughts on this subject - is it cost cutting, or does it actually give performance improvements?

Cheers!


Chris
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Poor Skeleton
Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 16 March 2019 12:07:20(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 355
Location: London
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post


- the more wheels driven the better - more traction and less drag, but maybe I'm missing some basic physics.


Hi Chris,

I think the only way to find out is to do some scientific testing. Get two locos with the different drive configurations and put them on a test slope - there, I given you an execuse to buy two locos! Just in the name of science mind you; you are not doing this for enjoyment. LOL

Carim
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Carim
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2019 00:15:46(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post


I think the only way to find out is to do some scientific testing. Get two locos with the different drive configurations and put them on a test slope - there, I given you an execuse to buy two locos! Just in the name of science mind you; you are not doing this for enjoyment. LOL

Carim


I'd love to make those scientific comparisons, but it seems people who have the older locos never sell them - I sense a conspiracy...

Cheers


Chris
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2019 01:21:13(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,544
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post


I think the only way to find out is to do some scientific testing. Get two locos with the different drive configurations and put them on a test slope - there, I given you an execuse to buy two locos! Just in the name of science mind you; you are not doing this for enjoyment. LOL

Carim


I'd love to make those scientific comparisons, but it seems people who have the older locos never sell them - I sense a conspiracy...

Cheers


Chris



Why not a view into the actual Märklin Magazine 01/2019 page 35 German version? Nice article about their new bodies made by this new metal-filled plastic. The major reason is to find a compromise between the higher traction of a full metall body by reasonable production costs. Perhaps you write the author of this article at Märklin and ask him about their experiences. Because as I see, no loco is delivered yet. Built by this new metall-filled plastic.

To me it is strange, this metal-filled body is sold as a metall body at Märklin's website.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#5 Posted : 24 March 2019 00:44:02(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post



Why not a view into the actual Märklin Magazine 01/2019 page 35 German version? Nice article about their new bodies made by this new metal-filled plastic. The major reason is to find a compromise between the higher traction of a full metall body by reasonable production costs.



The trouble is, I'm a cheapskate and not a Märklin Club member, so no magazine for me Sad

I suspect it's possible to mould finer detail into metal filled plastic than it is into metal and also possible to mould thinner wall thicknesses. I can't imagine it would be possible to mould a diesel body shell in metal. So I think this technology offers more than just a cost saving (compared to solid metal).

I guess I'll just have to wait and see (just a shame the first diesels are not more handsome!)

Cheers


Chris
Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 24 March 2019 18:23:23(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,544
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post



Why not a view into the actual Märklin Magazine 01/2019 page 35 German version? Nice article about their new bodies made by this new metal-filled plastic. The major reason is to find a compromise between the higher traction of a full metall body by reasonable production costs.



The trouble is, I'm a cheapskate and not a Märklin Club member, so no magazine for me Sad

I suspect it's possible to mould finer detail into metal filled plastic than it is into metal and also possible to mould thinner wall thicknesses. I can't imagine it would be possible to mould a diesel body shell in metal. So I think this technology offers more than just a cost saving (compared to solid metal).

I guess I'll just have to wait and see (just a shame the first diesels are not more handsome!)

Cheers


Chris


To be a cheapskate is always not a good decision. But since we got a communication platform called internet, it is not so bad. You will find pretty soon some explanations for your questions.
A few selections:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4024318
https://www.tandfonline....?journalCode=lpte20&

and for your
https://www.ptonline.com...ant-plastics-to-be-heavy

I think Märklin started using this material, to combine a cheaper production (whoops, are they cheapskates too?Laugh) remaining a heavy weight for a good traction on their locomotives. A tool for moulding is horrendous expensive. And I guess this filled metal plastic is also useable for the new upcoming 3D-printer. So our locos will not be moulded any longer, they will be printed in the future. I do not care, as long as Märklin stops its price increases by this new production method.

Cheers

Wolfgang

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 24 March 2019 19:38:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,256
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
And I guess this filled metal plastic is also useable for the new upcoming 3D-printer. So our locos will not be moulded any longer, they will be printed in the future.


I doubt this will be the case. 3D printing is fine for prototypes or small production quantities, but for the quantities that Marklin are producing then using an injection molding process is much cheaper.

Offline mario54i  
#8 Posted : 24 March 2019 19:49:40(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: Torino,
Heavy weight ?

Offline TEEWolf  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2019 20:34:17(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,544
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: mario54i Go to Quoted Post
Heavy weight ?



Yes please? What is your question and/or opinion? What art# is the loco? How is it built?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 24 March 2019 20:46:17(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,544
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

I doubt this will be the case. 3D printing is fine for prototypes or small production quantities, but for the quantities that Marklin are producing then using an injection molding process is much cheaper.



Well, not today, correct. But by a 5 year horizon it will be. Alan you got as an Insider the MM. Page 35 German version you see the models Märklin is learning and training. Mainly N-, Z-gauge models, only 1 H0 model and the H0 model is really a model for a 3D-printer, tiny, small, plenty of edges etc. for a mould very expensive, but for a 3D-printer perfect, if you got a good material for the printer. Even in the article itself Märklin confesses the founding of the metal filled plastic is much cheaper than the zinc die-cast.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline parakiet  
#11 Posted : 18 April 2019 22:35:52(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Flanders!
What is your verdict after a month?

Almost ready to get me one. Planning to shunt or run short trains with it!
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#12 Posted : 21 April 2019 21:58:25(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: parakiet Go to Quoted Post
What is your verdict after a month?

Almost ready to get me one. Planning to shunt or run short trains with it!


Well, there's no doubt it's a handsome locomotive and it runs very smoothly. I'm not sure its slow speed performance is any better than its 5-pole predecessor, but that was pretty good in that department, anyway.

I am pretty sure it doesn't have as good traction, though. My layout is mostly on an incline and three bogie coaches is pretty much its limit. That's not a problem for me as that's also the limit of my passing loops, but I might be a bit disappointed otherwise.

Unless you have steep gradients on your layout, I'm sure it will do the job admirably for you - I certainly don't regret my purchase.

All the best


Chris
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Poor Skeleton
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.579 seconds.