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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 07 January 2019 00:54:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
HI,
here is the official announcement from ESU:

Our 5th generation of LokSound has been developed from scratch again. Thanks to a high performance, 32-Bit microcontroller, we have been able to improve all key features again: LokSound 5 decoders will support up to 10 simultanous sound channels. Each channel will reach HiFi-Quality level thanks to 16 Bit Resolution and 31250 Hz sample frequency. LokSound 5 decoders will bring your model trains to the next level and sound almost like the original. A 128 Mbit flash memory chip allows for enough capacity to hold the sounds

LokSound 5 decoders offer an advanced B-EMF load control that runs with up to 50 kHz base frequency and is optimized for low-noise operation. This is important for coreless motors such as Faulhaber or Maxon and also for Large scale locomotives. Every LokSound 5 decoder comes with plenty of function outputs and can control servos or SUSI-modules if needed.

Every LokSound 5 decoder is a true Quad-Mode Decoder that talks DCC with RailComPlus and M4 and will be automatically registered with Märklin® command stations. As these decoders do also support Motorola® and Selectrix®, they can be used also with older Digital Command Stations. Even better, every LokSound 5 decoder could also be used with Analog DC or Analog AC controllers (even the small N scale decoder!)

Based on the command station, up to 32 function buttons are supported that can be mapped to any output due to our superior ESU function mapping. Three brake functions and a two-stage load simulation will let you enjoy your model railroad even more.

As there is different scales around, we will offer several LokSound 5 decoder versions:

58315
LokSound 5 L DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Pinheader with adapter, Retail, Gauge: 0,: Week 05/2019. recommended retail 179,99 €

58410
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 8-pin NEM652, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58412
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PluX22, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 08/2019. 99,99 €

58416
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 6-pin NEM651, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58419
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 21MTC NEM660, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H,0: Week 04/2019, 99,99 €

58449
LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 21MTC "MKL", Retail with speaker, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 08/2019. 99,99 €

58513
LokSound 5 XL DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Screw Terminal, Gauge: G, I,: Week 05/2019, 209,99 €

58515
LokSound 5 XL DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PInheader, Gauge: G, I,: Week 05/2019, 209,99 €

58810
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 8-pin NEM652, Retail with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58814
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", PluX16, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58816
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", 6-pin NEM651, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €

58818
LokSound 5 micro DCC/MM/SX/M4 "Blank decoder", Next18, Retail, with speaker 11x15mm, Gauge: 0, H0,: Week 10/2019, 109,99 €


Until end of February, we will replace all existing LokSound V4.0 decoders with the new generation. Further details about the decoders (technical data, Users instructions) as well as an updated sound data base including new LokProgrammer Software version will be published on our website within January 2019.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 07 January 2019 01:38:59(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 8,958
Location: Australia
Sigh.. New Lokprogrammer and decoder tester I suppose too.. Angry
Adrian
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Offline applor  
#3 Posted : 07 January 2019 03:18:03(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,403
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sigh.. New Lokprogrammer and decoder tester I suppose too.. Angry


Likely just a firmware update. The lokprogrammer I have is pretty old and is still current for V4 decoders....
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline MaerklinLife  
#4 Posted : 07 January 2019 06:21:10(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sigh.. New Lokprogrammer and decoder tester I suppose too.. Angry

Why? It is a plug on a board with the ability to talk through an interface. Nothing magic about these "tester" products. Simply locos laid out flat. You do not need new locos because a new decoder comes out.
Offline applor  
#5 Posted : 07 January 2019 13:19:49(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,403
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sigh.. New Lokprogrammer and decoder tester I suppose too.. Angry

Why? It is a plug on a board with the ability to talk through an interface. Nothing magic about these "tester" products. Simply locos laid out flat. You do not need new locos because a new decoder comes out.


He said lokprogrammer, not loco. The ESU lokprogrammer is used to program ESU decoders and he is concerned the new ESU decoder V5 may need a new hardware release of the lokprogrammer to be compatible.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 07 January 2019 15:24:36(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,607
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Sigh.. New Lokprogrammer and decoder tester I suppose too.. Angry

Why? It is a plug on a board with the ability to talk through an interface. Nothing magic about these "tester" products. Simply locos laid out flat. You do not need new locos because a new decoder comes out.


He said lokprogrammer, not loco. The ESU lokprogrammer is used to program ESU decoders and he is concerned the new ESU decoder V5 may need a new hardware release of the lokprogrammer to be compatible.


He was also talking about the decoder tester, which he figured would need to be replaced, but I don't think so as they will still be plug compatable with the existing decoder arrangements.

Same for the Lokprogrammer, a software update should sort them.

Offline Minok  
#7 Posted : 07 January 2019 20:49:47(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,077
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The programmer is just the data interface between the computer and the decoder - there isn't any inherent reason for the new decoder processor not being able to send data across the same channel that the current programmer provides. The programmer interface should be like a USB connection in a way - it doesn't matter what CPU the motherboard has.

The decoder tester, if I recall, are the hardware stand-ins for the locomotive, they represent the analog parts at the end (motor, speaker, etc) - and should not care what the decoder internals are.

So only the software that programs the decoder really needs changing as the new processors instructions and data formats are different.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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Offline applor  
#8 Posted : 13 January 2019 23:18:49(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,403
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Still nothing on the ESU webpageConfused
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 15 January 2019 07:00:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,072
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Still nothing on the ESU webpageConfused


They will soon present more news when it´s time to upgrade the webpage.


DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline applor  
#10 Posted : 16 January 2019 02:01:10(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,403
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Interesting to note that both the standard and micro versions all come with a small 11x15mm speaker, rather than a larger speaker for the standard (H0) size decoders.

I was looking at ordering a loksound micro 4 with its 16x25mm speaker which will only just fit.
It might be worth paying a bit more for the v5 decoders smaller 11x15 speaker if ESU consider it good enough to include the same for the H0 decoder.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline nmarques  
#11 Posted : 26 January 2019 13:10:46(UTC)
nmarques

Portugal   
Joined: 05/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 19
Video showing differences between Loksound V4 and V5 using Lokprogrammer

Edited by moderator 05 February 2019 22:19:55(UTC)  | Reason: Added Youtube tags

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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 30 January 2019 14:07:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Website from ESU:



The LokSound 5 is the most important member of the LokSound family. Due to the combination of the digital decoder and the sound module on one circuit board we achieve the smallest possible dimensions of 30 mm x 15.5 mm. Therefore it fits into almost any H0 or 0 gauge locomotive.

LokSound 5 decoders are available with all popular interface types and are supplied with a sugar cube speaker (11 mm x 15 mm) and a sound enclosure.
Operating modes

Like all products of the LokSound family the LokSound 5 is a true multi protocol decoder. It supports DCC as well as Motorola®, Selectrix® and M4. Of course it supports 14 through to 128 speed steps as well as 2 and 4 digit addresses in DCC format and up to 32 functions. Thanks to RailComPlus® the decoders register themselves fully automatically on suitable command stations.

This decoder supports all DCC programming modes and thanks to RailCom® you may read out the CV values on the main, provided you have a command station supporting RailCom®. There are utility registers for command stations that only facilitate programming of CVs ranging from 1 to 255.

Motorola® users benefit from up to 28 speed steps for 255 addresses. Three additional Motorola® addresses facilitate triggering of 16 functions. An integral programming mode even allows programming with the good old Central Unit 6021.

The M4 protocol supports the automatic registration on mfx® compatible central units.

The LokSound 5 decoder supports the Märklin® braking sections just as well as the ZIMO® HLU braking commands or the Lenz® ABC system. Braking with DCC brake generators or with DC is also possible. Furthermore the locomotive with a LokSound will come to a halt when a Selectrix® braking diode is switched into the circuit. The ABC push-pull feature enables the automatic commuting between two stations.

The LokSound 5 decoder is also suitable for analogue DC and AC (!) layouts.
Sound

The LokSound 5 decoder can reproduce up to 10 channels simultaneously. Each channel offers up to 16 Bit / 31250 kHz and thus we have finally achieved hi-fi sound quality on your layout. For all practical purposes one cannot detect any difference to the original. A class D audio power amplifier with up to 3W output power feeds the speakers with a permitted impedance of 4 – 32 Ohms. The huge 128 MBit sound memory assures sufficient storage capacity.

The volume of all individual sound fragments may be adjusted separately. The outstandingly flexible sound engine without a rigid flow chart facilitates a prototypical simulation of all conceivable rail vehicles. Three separately adjustable braking functions and two alternative load scenarios provide you with maximum control of your vehicles.

Functions

We are quite aware that you want your locomotives to be as realistic as possible. Therefore we have packed many function outputs into it. Subject to the type of interface every LokSound 5 has at least 10 amplified outputs. The decoders with PluX22 or 21MTC interface have an additional 4 outputs for controlling servos or as logic outputs. Of course, all important lighting functions are supported. The brightness of each output may be adjusted separately. The decoder supports the automatic push and pull movements – known as the coupler waltz - required for reliable operation of digital couplers such as the ones by ROCO® and Krois® as well as Telex® couplers.

Motor control

Motor control of the LokSound 5 has been further improved. A variable PWM pulse frequency ranging from 10 kHz to 50 kHz assures perfect silent operation, particularly for coreless motors. Thus the typical hum is a thing of the past. Load control can now be adjusted with up to 10 separate CVs and thus will manage even the most difficult cases. The unique “Auto Tune” function facilitates the automatic calibration of the decoder to perfectly match the motor. The LokSound 5 decoder supplies up to 1.5A motor current, which is quite sufficient even for older motor types.
Ordering information
Art.No. Description Delivery
NEW! 58410 LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "blank decoder", 8-pin NEM652, with Speaker 11x15mm, gauge: 0, H0 available week 4/2019
NEW! 58412 LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "blank decoder", PluX22, with speaker 11x15mm, gauge: 0, H0 available week 8/2019
NEW! 58416 LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "BlankDecoder", 6-pin NEM651, with Speaker 11x15mm, gauge: 0, H0 available week 4/2019
NEW! 58419 LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "blank decoder", 21MTC NEM6660, with speaker 11x15mm, gauge: 0, H0 available week 4/2019
NEW! 58449 LokSound 5 DCC/MM/SX/M4 "blank decoder", 21MTC "MKL" (Multiprotocol), gauge: 0, H0 available week 8/2019

Technical Datas:

operatind under DCC with RailComPlus®, M4, Motorola® and Selectrix®
32 Funktionen (depending on your command station)
32-Bit-prozessor
Digitale Class-„D“-Booster mit up to 3 W Output (LokSound 5 XL: 13 W)
each channel with16-Bit- resolution and 31250 kHz Sample rate
Sound memory with 128 Mbit capacity
motor control with 50 kHz pulse frequency
RC-Servos and Susi-Module controllable
3 new, individual adjustable brake controller
two step heavy load-Simulation
updateable with ESU-LokProgrammer
LokSound 5
Universal-Sound-Decoder for Gauges H0 and Gauge 0
Motor current 1,5 A
all depends on the interface up to 12 increased function outputs for special functions (Total: up to 15 Outputs)
10 Sound channels simultaneously playable
from factory with 11x15-mm-"sugar cube"-Loudspeaker with interchangeable Sound capsule-Set
Power Pack - optional connectable
Dimensions: 30 mm x 15,5 mm, height depending on Interface
8-pin NEM 652
PluxX22
6-pin NEM 651
21MTC
21MTC MKL

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline jvuye  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2019 14:55:58(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Looks very appealing .
Thank you John.
As far as programming support is concerned I haven't seen any update from ESU yet.
Have you?

Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 30 January 2019 15:00:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,607
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Looks very appealing .
Thank you John.
As far as programming support is concerned I haven't seen any update from ESU yet.
Have you?

Cheers
Jacques


I believe there is updated Lokprogrammer software available, came out rather soon after the first two locos were announced.

Offline mbarreto  
#15 Posted : 30 January 2019 15:15:18(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 858

You can download Lokprogrammer software V5. I already have it installed.
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline David Dewar  
#16 Posted : 30 January 2019 16:04:17(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Scotland
Thanks John. I presume it does not register with a CS3 if fitted to a Marklin loco (expecting rather a lot there lol) But the address can be selected and added manually with the Marklin controller. I only ask as I have not in the past used a ESU decoder.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 30 January 2019 17:03:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

You can download Lokprogrammer software V5. I already have it installed.


Although you can down load it and unless you've got a new V 60 with a new Loksound V 5.0 decoder, the Lokprogrammer V 5.0 doesn't show anything when opening existing files for your V 4.0 sound decoders.
download Lokprogrammer from the ESU website under firmware and software

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#18 Posted : 30 January 2019 17:04:56(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Thanks John. I presume it does not register with a CS3 if fitted to a Marklin loco (expecting rather a lot there lol) But the address can be selected and added manually with the Marklin controller. I only ask as I have not in the past used a ESU decoder.


Dave, I think you're right like ny foreign decoder you can change certain CV's but this is it. its the same with ZIMO decoders which are all installed into Roco locos.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline mbarreto  
#19 Posted : 30 January 2019 18:11:52(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 858
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

You can download Lokprogrammer software V5. I already have it installed.


Although you can down load it and unless you've got a new V 60 with a new Loksound V 5.0 decoder, the Lokprogrammer V 5.0 doesn't show anything when opening existing files for your V 4.0 sound decoders.
download Lokprogrammer from the ESU website under firmware and software

John




Edit: I just tried to open a V3.5 project direct without the "Import" feature and it opened without problem.

Original text:
You need to drop down the File menu and seect "Import decoder project..."
Then it converts, at least from V4.


Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline Minok  
#20 Posted : 30 January 2019 18:15:50(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,077
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The v5 description tldr.

What from a user perspective is better/different from the v4?
Smaller?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline mbarreto  
#21 Posted : 30 January 2019 18:32:08(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 858
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
The v5 description tldr.

What from a user perspective is better/different from the v4?
Smaller?


See post number 11 of this thread.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline mbarreto  
#22 Posted : 30 January 2019 18:47:09(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 858

I edited my post about the opening of ESU prohect files of version prior to 5 with the Lokprogrammer software V5 as I opened them without problem...
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 31 January 2019 02:53:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, yes I've just realized by opening a "new project" the loksound V 5.0 appears with its extended functions etc etc.

Minok

I think my article regarding the new Version 5.0 loksound is self explanatory when it comes to improvements from its predecessor V 4.0 Loksound.

the new "function" functionality, I will be able to explain the moment I'll have one on hand, so watch this spot or under "Accessories review". , hopefully mid March

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 31 January 2019 03:24:17(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Thanks John. I presume it does not register with a CS3 if fitted to a Marklin loco (expecting rather a lot there lol) But the address can be selected and added manually with the Marklin controller. I only ask as I have not in the past used a ESU decoder.


David, as a rule one should stick to the same manufacturer for all your digital components, as I have done with ESU and got rid of all my Märklin 60901 decoders and bought ESu lokpilot decoders and even these re going out the door because I'm changing almost all my locos with sound decoders (around 200 = but a long way to go).

certain CV's can be programmed with the CS3 how many I don't know and if you are happy with the standard settings a Loksound decoder V 5.0 should be ok, its only when you start trying to change light effects, telex coupling, interior lights for coaches powered via the decoder that the programming becomes either impossible or you need an international computer technician certificate BigGrin to make any changes.
although Märklin has improved over the years with a loco programmer for its newest decoders whereas ESU lokprogrammer goes back to version 1.0 lokpilots,
another difference is with ESU sound decoders especially select sound decoders for the American diesel loco market are different horn sound files and different lighting effects and you can add them like many other extras., with other words you've got more options if needed, instead of the generic sound files a company provides. under US air horns for instance there are 4 different brand names: Leslie, MISC air horns, Nathan and Wabco and each of these have at least 12 or more different options of air horns. and when it comes to bells there are about 21 different bell types., all in all ESU made a huge effort to please the American diesel/steam loco market enthusiasts with authentic sounds and with a vast variety.
Hopefully we may see more authentic steam/diesel/electric sounds with the introduction of the Loksound V 5.0 sound files and not using a mere generic sound, I think Zimo is ahead there where they use the actual sound of a particular loco or Leo sound lab sound decoders which co-operates with ESU sound decoders , you can either buy a sound decoder from them with a specific loco sound or you just buy the sound file.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 31 January 2019 07:08:17(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,072
I believe ESU new sound decoder will be more popular than Märklins mfx.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline Bigdaddynz  
#26 Posted : 31 January 2019 07:22:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,794
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Thanks John. I presume it does not register with a CS3 if fitted to a Marklin loco (expecting rather a lot there lol) But the address can be selected and added manually with the Marklin controller. I only ask as I have not in the past used a ESU decoder.


Dave, the Loksound 4 and 5 decoders have mfx (ESU call it M4) as one of the available protocols (the others are MM and DCC) so the decoder will register with the CS3 using mfx.

They will register with an Ecos using either mfx or Railcom.

LokProgrammer v5.0 available here:

http://www.esu.eu/en/dow.../software/lokprogrammer/

I've just ordered a Loksound V4 from Lokshop, so will be interested to see what shows up!
Offline river6109  
#27 Posted : 31 January 2019 10:55:57(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I believe ESU new sound decoder will be more popular than Märklins mfx.


each sound decoder has its own qualities for its own system, although ESU has multiprotocol decoders and can be added to almost any brand or loco this doesn't mean Märklin will suddenly give up mfx, Märklin train enthusiasts who buy loco off the shelf will not suddenly buy ESU sound decoders because they are better, as you claim., it comes down to a matter of choice.
I've recently bought an analog Roco loco and fitted an ESU sound decoder but the Roco sound version (Zimo sound decoder) had 2 power packs and 2 loudspeakers, so financially or sound quality I wasn't better off. the only reason I buy ESU sound decoders because I can program them and there are more choices but this is not every bodies cup of tea.
Märklin will bring their sound decoders out for Märklin enthusiasts and ESU will bring their sound decoders out because there is market for it.

One would have thought ESU would bring out decoders with 32 functions first but they didn't and the new Version 5.0 decoders will have an impact on customers who have already or operate with an ESU system, like myself.
Today brand names market their locos in such a way and sometimes it appears every manufacturer jumps on the "bandwagen" and produces the same type of loco.
I don't think you can single out 1 manufacturer and say they are better or more popular with all the returns Märklin experiences you would think they are heading for another shut down but it is the opposite and they are increasing their profits and it has to be seen whether or not they've increased the amount of articles sold increased or the prices increased.
On the surface it seems Märklin enthusiasts are as enthusiastic as ever before and they don't worry about what ESU produces,
So your forecast is a bit wishful thinking and you must have used a party hat trick with bits of papers in it and you pulled the paper out to reveal, ESU will be more popular, the problem with the paper bits: every bit of paper had the same message,
I can't see it will benefit anybody especially in the Märklin camp.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline David Dewar  
#28 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:35:23(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Scotland
Thanks for the replies above. Interesting that Dave says ESU will register with the CS3. which is a plus point.

As John says staying with Marklin is probably better for Marklin enthusiasts. I may give the new ESU decoder a try but as Marklin provide everything we need for our railway I prefer to give them the business as losing any of the others will make little difference to our hobby but some competition does no great harm.


.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#29 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:36:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,607
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I believe ESU new sound decoder will be more popular than Märklins mfx.


I can believe that the ESU decoders will be more popular than the Marklin ones for two reasons: -

1. They include mfx - provided you buy the decoders with M4 protocol (ESU cannot call it mfx for trademark reasons after their breakup with Marklin).

2. ESU are much more open about how to use their decoders, and what goes on inside them than Marklin. This is why the Loksound v4 has been such a success. If you have any doubts about this go and lurk on the Loksound and JMRI email groups, where there are several people who have really got a handle on how they work, including a contact inside ESU that helps them with details. Can you see Marklin providing that sort of help?

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Offline Goofy  
#30 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:53:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,072
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I believe ESU new sound decoder will be more popular than Märklins mfx.


I can believe that the ESU decoders will be more popular than the Marklin ones for two reasons: -

1. They include mfx - provided you buy the decoders with M4 protocol (ESU cannot call it mfx for trademark reasons after their breakup with Marklin).

2. ESU are much more open about how to use their decoders, and what goes on inside them than Marklin. This is why the Loksound v4 has been such a success. If you have any doubts about this go and lurk on the Loksound and JMRI email groups, where there are several people who have really got a handle on how they work, including a contact inside ESU that helps them with details. Can you see Marklin providing that sort of help?



I have seen at the youtube how rail fans change the sound decoder to ESU and provide better results.
I was planning to buy ESU new V 60 with the loksound V5 but decides to wait to see more test results at the youtube.

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 04 February 2019 07:32:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
HI, tried out the new Loksound V 5.0 lokprogrammer but of course I had to use a V 4.0 sound decoder as the loksound V 5.0 sound files haven't been released as yet.
One thing always annoyed me a bit was the colour change from activating the virtual drivers cab to de-activating, now it is a nice dark blue colour which indicates the light or Aux functions are on.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Minok  
#32 Posted : 05 February 2019 21:46:26(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,077
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post


Minok

I think my article regarding the new Version 5.0 loksound is self explanatory when it comes to improvements from its predecessor V 4.0 Loksound.

the new "function" functionality, I will be able to explain the moment I'll have one on hand, so watch this spot or under "Accessories review". , hopefully mid March

John



Well, your article is a long list of technical specs and functions, most of which are already provided by the LokSound v 4.
I was looking for "what would I want that makes me get a v5 vs the v4".

From the ESU videos at Nürnberg 2019, it seems the key improvement is the processor which allows audio files to be at a larger sample size, so sounds will have a better definition in playback. That won't, of course, solve the fundamental problem of reproducing any of the lower and mid frequency range within the small speakers one must fit to an H0 model locomotive.

One can send the v4 sound files to a v5 decoder, but you don't get a difference then, because the v4 sound recordings will sound the same as they are not going to magically get better audio sample resolution - one needs the newly digitized/encoded versions for the v5 to get the benefit.

There is also the ability to play more audio voices at once - so that would be playing multiple sounds at the same time - so a station announcement while the break squeal is running and maybe the loco is doing some sound like sanding, etc. Simultaneous sounds playing at once; we get more of those.


But beyond that audio fidelity and playback gain, what else is better than the V4? Im not sure I see a reason to upgrade from a V4 if its already installed.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#33 Posted : 05 February 2019 22:36:09(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,841
Location: NY, NY
Any update to the lokpilot decoders, or just the loksound ones?
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline kiwiAlan  
#34 Posted : 05 February 2019 23:16:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,607
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Any update to the lokpilot decoders, or just the loksound ones?


Just the loksound as far as I can see.
Offline river6109  
#35 Posted : 06 February 2019 00:02:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post


Minok

I think my article regarding the new Version 5.0 loksound is self explanatory when it comes to improvements from its predecessor V 4.0 Loksound.

the new "function" functionality, I will be able to explain the moment I'll have one on hand, so watch this spot or under "Accessories review". , hopefully mid March

John



Well, your article is a long list of technical specs and functions, most of which are already provided by the LokSound v 4.
I was looking for "what would I want that makes me get a v5 vs the v4".

From the ESU videos at Nürnberg 2019, it seems the key improvement is the processor which allows audio files to be at a larger sample size, so sounds will have a better definition in playback. That won't, of course, solve the fundamental problem of reproducing any of the lower and mid frequency range within the small speakers one must fit to an H0 model locomotive.

One can send the v4 sound files to a v5 decoder, but you don't get a difference then, because the v4 sound recordings will sound the same as they are not going to magically get better audio sample resolution - one needs the newly digitized/encoded versions for the v5 to get the benefit.

There is also the ability to play more audio voices at once - so that would be playing multiple sounds at the same time - so a station announcement while the break squeal is running and maybe the loco is doing some sound like sanding, etc. Simultaneous sounds playing at once; we get more of those.


But beyond that audio fidelity and playback gain, what else is better than the V4? Im not sure I see a reason to upgrade from a V4 if its already installed.


there are others like motor control and I will let you know in future when I get hold of the new loksound decoders.
I can't see (with your assumption: why should I get a loksound V 5.00 sound decoder) that ESU would bring out a new version which is not upgradable for the V 4.0 sound decoder and merely for the sound,

regards.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#36 Posted : 07 February 2019 17:03:45(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the loksound downloads for V 5.0 decoders have now been released on the ESU website.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline river6109  
#37 Posted : 08 February 2019 03:59:49(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,623
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Update: Lokprogrammer 5.01 is ready for update
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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