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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 19 January 2019 00:50:27(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,243
Location: Montreal, QC
Many of you may have bought the 43411 SBB CFF ABt 1st/2nd Class pilot coach. Maerklin and some dealers have suggested that this is the ideal complement to the 43362/43372/43382/43402 coaches. This is not accurate.

The 43411 is a former 2nd class lightsteel coach which was converted into a pilot coach in the mid-1970s. At that time, the SBB required additional pilot coaches for regional trains. The proper locomotive for these trains was either a BDe 4/4 (Hag) or Re 4/4I (1st Series) (39420/39421).

The 43411 (SBB + CFF) or 43410 (<+>SBB CFF FFS) normally ran in a consist made up as follows:

BDe 4/4 (Hag 152/154) - 43361 - 43361 - 43410/11

Re 4/4I (Green) 39420 - 43401 - 43361 - 43361 - 43410/11

Re 4/4I (Red) 39421 - 43401 - 43361 - 43361 - 43410/43389.6*
* 43389.6 is the same as the 43410 (<+> SBB CFF FFS) but with red painted front.

The Lightsteel coach with central entrance (43380/81/82) was not capable of push-pull operation and AFAIK neither was the 43390/91/92 Restaurant car.

If you cannot find the 43361 anymore, you may still be able to find the 26534 set which came with a pair of similar coaches. That set, along with the baggage car and pilot coach makes the perfect consist for a green Re 4/4I (39420). You can use the Re 4/4II from the set with other coaches.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mmervine  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2019 01:09:42(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,894
Location: Keene, NH
Mike-still waiting for my 43411 to arrive. I plan to run it with my red 39421 Re4/4I and a set of Liliput steel coaches.
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2019 15:51:25(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,991
Location: CA, USA
Thanks Mike! This is really interesting, especially since I've assembled a rogue roster of these coaches and locomotives over the years. Of particular curiosity was always the center door coaches vs the two door coaches, and why the SBB went through the trouble of developing/building both?

Knowing all this, my roster looks something like this:

39420/39421/Hag BDE era III/Hag BDe era IV:

- 43360/70/80/90- series coaches. I have the full set as Marklin issued it. I guess this consist will lose the center door and dining cars, and add the 43411 cab control coach?

- 42165 (twin door 1cl), 42165 (twin door 2cl), 43362, 43372. Perhaps I sneak the 43390 diner in here

- 42165 (single door), 43382, 43382, 43392 diner, 43402 baggage

- Hag BDE Era IV lettering + matching Pilot coach

For those who might be curious- the paint on the 42165 set and the 2018 release 43362/72/82/92 is a dead match.
SBB Era 2-5
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 20 January 2019 01:57:49(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,243
Location: Montreal, QC
The Lightsteel coaches were divided into several types.
In the period 1957-1990, there were 1st class (A) coaches, second class coaches (B), mixed class coaches (AB).
There were also variants with compartments rather than open seating and one that included a buffet compartment.
Prior to 1957, some of the AB coaches were operated as 2nd/3rd Class coaches (BC4u)

The difference between the original 2nd Class (B4u) and 3rd Class (C4u) were primarily noticeable in terms of the number of seats per coach and the fact that the C4u had wooden benches rather than cushioned seats. The only Lightsteel coaches with 1st Class service were the AB4u, as a pure 1st Class coach was never built.

I am going to have to do some research to learn more about the earlier use of these coaches, as my period of expertise is post 1965.
Liliput (Bachmann) had a model of an AB where the coach had two doors per side and one half of the coach was 1st Class.
I seem to recall coaches where the 1st Class section was between the door pairs and the extremities were 2nd Class. I wonder if those might have been the original AB4u as opposed to the BC4u which later became AB. I am curious whether these were in fact the coaches that had a compartment section in the middle.

Let me go through my books this weekend and see what I can find out.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline mmervine  
#5 Posted : 20 January 2019 14:52:21(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,894
Location: Keene, NH
I checked my Liliput cars and they all have double doors. I have the following:

1x Baggage car
1x 1st class car
1x Dining car
3x 2nd class car

These are cars from a old production run (made in Austria) and I think I paid something like $10 each for them several years ago. I have already installed AC wheels, extra weight, RTS couplers, lights & people. Just waiting for my 43411 to arrive to complete this train. Should be a nice looking consist!

Mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mmervine
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 20 January 2019 20:07:56(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,243
Location: Montreal, QC
The baggage car with postal compartment, as released by Liliput was not equipped for push-pull operation. As far as I remember, neither was the dining car.
The LS A and LSB (4 doors) were equipped with the cables necessary for push-pull operation.

The baggage car that could be used in push-pull operation was the model made by Maerklin and Trix.

If you are running a train with a BDe 4/4 (Hag), that railcar already has a baggage compartment, so there would be no need for one in the coach consist. A baggage car would only be needed in a train pulled by a Re 4/4I.

My recommendation would be to use a pair the second class coaches with the pilot coach and keep the remaining one, the baggage, first class and restaurant car for use with a few EWI or EWII to make a locomotive pulled regional consist from the 1960s/1970s.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mmervine  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2019 21:27:05(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,894
Location: Keene, NH
Mike-as usual, thanks for all the great information!
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
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