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Offline siroljuk  
#1 Posted : 29 December 2018 16:14:20(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Hello everyone BigGrin BigGrin

I have to say that I made one hellof mistake yeterdayBlushing Cursing ThumbDown ThumbDown Woot

My two years old CS3Plus became unusable and it was my mistakeUnsure Unsure .

I was trying to use sound files through CS3Plus and it was not functioning at all. I was using active speakers ( stereo) and no sound came out of speakers. I could hear those sound files from CS3 speaker but not using phone socket.

The I tried mono plug into the socket and . . . BOOM!!! Something odd happen. Display went black for second or two and surring sound game from CS3 speaker and then nothing but CS3 was very hot.
I took power off and after few minutes then I tried to start CS3 again, and voila it boots like nothing has happen but touch screen did not function at all. And of course for minute or so the whole device was very hot again, so power off and here I am. No central station any more.

I wrote to Märklin asking right address for service because I am going to send the broken device to them for repairing ( if they can repair it).

Perhaps they can tell me what kind of speaker ( active or passive) can be used and is there Mono or Stereo inside of CS3Plus.

Perhaps I order new device from Lippe future will show.

Now I am angry to myself BUT . . .

I Wish You All Happy New Year 2019Huh Huh

Regards
Jukka

Ps. The lesson in this case is: Do not experiment with expensive equipment if you do not know all the features of the device
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by siroljuk
Offline Thewolf  
#2 Posted : 29 December 2018 16:39:11(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,401
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Hello everyone BigGrin BigGrin

I have to say that I made one hellof mistake yeterdayBlushing Cursing ThumbDown ThumbDown Woot

My two years old CS3Plus became unusable and it was my mistakeUnsure Unsure .

I was trying to use sound files through CS3Plus and it was not functioning at all. I was using active speakers ( stereo) and no sound came out of speakers. I could hear those sound files from CS3 speaker but not using phone socket.

The I tried mono plug into the socket and . . . BOOM!!! Something odd happen. Display went black for second or two and surring sound game from CS3 speaker and then nothing but CS3 was very hot.
I took power off and after few minutes then I tried to start CS3 again, and voila it boots like nothing has happen but touch screen did not function at all. And of course for minute or so the whole device was very hot again, so power off and here I am. No central station any more.

I wrote to Märklin asking right address for service because I am going to send the broken device to them for repairing ( if they can repair it).

Perhaps they can tell me what kind of speaker ( active or passive) can be used and is there Mono or Stereo inside of CS3Plus.

Perhaps I order new device from Lippe future will show.

Now I am angry to myself BUT . . .

I Wish You All Happy New Year 2019Huh Huh

Regards
Jukka

Ps. The lesson in this case is: Do not experiment with expensive equipment if you do not know all the features of the device


Hi Jukka Cool

I understand how you feel.

But you can't blame yourself.

In my opinion, if Marklin did his job of communicating information correctly about the use of very expensive devices, it would never have happened.

Let me explain: why didn't Marklin attach information about the speakers that can be connected to the cs3?

Of course, Marklin will answer: ''the information exists''. To which I reply: ''No doubt, but where is it in the labyrinth of your library? We have to look for it''.

Just look at the number of links that Wolfgang is able to communicate to us and especially the diversity of his links. I would like to take this opportunity to thank him.

But I wonder; how does Wolfgang get these links? Because with google I can't do it and there's no reason that if he finds them I can't find them

Happy New Year

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline siroljuk  
#3 Posted : 30 December 2018 09:07:13(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Hello
Does anyone know more information about the spare part: speaker E232775???
speaker.jpg

Is it active speaker or passive one?

Speaker cost 15€, but shipping to Finland is nearly 30€Cursing Cursing .

Regards

Jukka
Offline Crazy Harry  
#4 Posted : 30 December 2018 16:54:47(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 278
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Hi Jukka,

Sorry to hear about the failure of your CS3+.

Regarding your question about the speaker connection - the Märklin book "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" (product # 03092, English version) states on page 15: 'A built-in speaker now allows additional sound effects to sound directly such as on mfx+ locomotives. A stereo active speaker can still be connected to the CS3.' The book also notes, on page 69, that there is an 'audio playback source' selection on the System Settings screen where you can select internal or external speakers.

Hope you have some luck in getting the Central Station repaired.

Harold.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 30 December 2018 17:53:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,083
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jukka,

Hope you have some luck in getting the Central Station repaired.

Harold.


Agreed, in fact I would be trying to get a warranty repair out of them, it certainly should not have failed like this.

Offline siroljuk  
#6 Posted : 31 December 2018 09:37:56(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Thank You!

I have sent an e-mail to Märklin service and I'm waiting for their answer. Anyway I will send device for repairing to Märklin after I get right address for it.

I hope they can repair itBlushing if not then I will open the device and look what went wrong and try to repair it somehow by myself.

I'm afraid that this will take time, a lot of time so I'm considering to buy new CS3Plus from Lippe, well let's see

In the mean time Happy New Year to YOU ALLBigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Regards

Jukka

Offline Rwill  
#7 Posted : 31 December 2018 14:29:57(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 490
Location: England, London
Simple option

If considering a new purchase from Lippe as well as a repair why not Email them first with your tale of woe and see what they suggest? My one experience of Marklin warranty/repair in thirty years was a small issue I had made into a major disaster. Lippe were brilliant return postage label, they sent it to Marklin and it came back repaired FOC in a reasonable time -which Is why I deal with them wherever possible
Offline siroljuk  
#8 Posted : 31 December 2018 14:55:25(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Hi,
Yes, I have also sent once a broken loco to Lippe and they said that I could send broken loco direct to Märklin.

Now I have written toMärklin askin their correct address to Servicer and I am going to sen device for repairing as I earlier wrote.

Lets see can they repair it for free or for feeBigGrin

Jukka
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 31 December 2018 23:23:34(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,083
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post

I hope they can repair itBlushing


Oh, they will most definitely be able to repair it.

The repair will consist of replacing the PCB. They will not attempt to repair the existing PCB, that will be too expensive to do.

Offline siroljuk  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2019 15:42:51(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Hello and greetings from middle of the FinlandBigGrin BigGrin

Many of you have red my interesting adventures with CS3Plus. Now I have more to tell you:

First my broken CS3Plus. Something went totally wrong when I started to try play sounds with my two years old CS3Pls( serial 1133).
I didn't manage to play sounds from phone socket not to phones(stereo) and not to active speakers(stereo).

The I tried to put MONO-plug to that socket and something happen, I don't know what went wrong, but touch-screen didn't works after incident. Screen went black for a while and the whole screen area was quite warm, not hot though. ANd from inside I could hear something crispy sound. I terrified and take power cord off,, because I thought that something was burning.

Then I wrote to Märklin Service and ask for address to which I could send the broken device for repair. Märklin people might be busy because no one has answered to my e-mail yet.

After few days I did order a new CS3Plus from Lippe and at the same time I wrote to them also to get information what to do with that broken device. This process is ongoing still.

Today I got new CS3Plus ( version 8115) and surprise it was with latest update.BigGrin ThumpUp. Device out of box and a while for warmin in the inside room and then power on.

Fortunately I had latest backup from the broken device and I downloaded it to new device ( of course I did take backup from the new empty device lucky meScared Scared )

Because it came clear to me that my old CS3's backup cannot be used with new device. . . YES IT REALLY IS SO. The restore went OK, but information was not functional, I really don't understand why it is so but it is. One example: I could see my previous layout picture with all turnouts and contacts and so on, but restore did not bring them to the window where you can edit them. When I started to add items as they should add when they are new the hole device went crazy, Layout picture messed up and item which should be in the picture were only numbers and characters.

Then I restored the very first backup and start all from the beginning. I recorded all items, in this case turnouts first and then I draw layout picture installed one loco and tested the whole layout and turnouts. It was and is good now. Loco database was empty also, so all locos must be configured manually.

I am a bit disappointed Cursing Cursing but then i have to think that perhaps Märklin has made better hardware this time, repaired some mistakes and this version of hardware is now good. . . . Who knows we will see.BigGrin BigGrin.

Few words about these two devices:

There are differences,
old device at idle state without connection to layout is not very warm 38.5 degrees, power: 0.041A(Main Track) 0.036A ( Programming Track)19,1 Volts
New device at idle state without connection to layout quite warm 58 degrees all the time and power: 0.058A(Maint Track), 0.036(Programming Track) 19,3 Volts

Red buttons in new device ( two for speed) are much more sensitive that in old device.

And they are NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER when you think backups.

In the New Device there are still bugs inside the program, MFX-locos are not recognized as they should, I had to boot several times after it worked ok. Touch scree is not very exact even when I used mouse pointing device.

If I find interesting features or behavior during my journey to my latest Layout I will tell you later.

Regards

Jukka

Ps.
It will be very interesting to see what Märklin will tell me about broken device repairing and what they might tell me how to manage with soundsDrool Drool
Offline David Dewar  
#11 Posted : 08 January 2019 16:18:39(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,548
Location: Scotland
Hi Jukka. Good to see you now have a new CS3 PLus. I did not back up from my CS2 but just started the new CS3 from scratch. No problems and all locos registered in minutes. As you know I had a problem with events but somehow have that sorted even if not correctly.

I will run my CS3 Plus without adding anything from another manufacturer as from various threads this does appear to cause problems. . I use a mouse but changing turnouts can be a hit or miss although increasing the layout board size does help. Mine came from Lippe and they ensured the latest update was installed.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline TEEWolf  
#12 Posted : 08 January 2019 19:40:12(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,381
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Hello and greetings from middle of the FinlandBigGrin BigGrin

Many of you have red my interesting adventures with CS3Plus. Now I have more to tell you:

First my broken CS3Plus. Something went totally wrong when I started to try play sounds with my two years old CS3Pls( serial 1133).
I didn't manage to play sounds from phone socket not to phones(stereo) and not to active speakers(stereo).

The I tried to put MONO-plug to that socket and something happen, I don't know what went wrong, but touch-screen didn't works after incident. Screen went black for a while and the whole screen area was quite warm, not hot though. ANd from inside I could hear something crispy sound. I terrified and take power cord off,, because I thought that something was burning.

Then I wrote to Märklin Service and ask for address to which I could send the broken device for repair. Märklin people might be busy because no one has answered to my e-mail yet.

After few days I did order a new CS3Plus from Lippe and at the same time I wrote to them also to get information what to do with that broken device. This process is ongoing still.

Today I got new CS3Plus ( version 8115) and surprise it was with latest update.BigGrin ThumpUp. Device out of box and a while for warmin in the inside room and then power on.

Fortunately I had latest backup from the broken device and I downloaded it to new device ( of course I did take backup from the new empty device lucky meScared Scared )

Because it came clear to me that my old CS3's backup cannot be used with new device. . . YES IT REALLY IS SO. The restore went OK, but information was not functional, I really don't understand why it is so but it is. One example: I could see my previous layout picture with all turnouts and contacts and so on, but restore did not bring them to the window where you can edit them. When I started to add items as they should add when they are new the hole device went crazy, Layout picture messed up and item which should be in the picture were only numbers and characters.

Then I restored the very first backup and start all from the beginning. I recorded all items, in this case turnouts first and then I draw layout picture installed one loco and tested the whole layout and turnouts. It was and is good now. Loco database was empty also, so all locos must be configured manually.

I am a bit disappointed Cursing Cursing but then i have to think that perhaps Märklin has made better hardware this time, repaired some mistakes and this version of hardware is now good. . . . Who knows we will see.BigGrin BigGrin.

Few words about these two devices:

There are differences,
old device at idle state without connection to layout is not very warm 38.5 degrees, power: 0.041A(Main Track) 0.036A ( Programming Track)19,1 Volts
New device at idle state without connection to layout quite warm 58 degrees all the time and power: 0.058A(Maint Track), 0.036(Programming Track) 19,3 Volts

Red buttons in new device ( two for speed) are much more sensitive that in old device.

And they are NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER when you think backups.

In the New Device there are still bugs inside the program, MFX-locos are not recognized as they should, I had to boot several times after it worked ok. Touch scree is not very exact even when I used mouse pointing device.

If I find interesting features or behavior during my journey to my latest Layout I will tell you later.

Regards

Jukka

Ps.
It will be very interesting to see what Märklin will tell me about broken device repairing and what they might tell me how to manage with soundsDrool Drool




Thank you Jukka for your CS 3 feedback. Sounds very strange to me. Well, you are in touch with Märklin and I am looking forward about Märklin's answer to your experiences for the incompatibility of technical identical devices, because Märklin did not announce technical changes to the CS 3. They only noted were design changes.

I was wondering why so many people asks in this forum about Märklin's addresses, especially the service one. Here it is the full webpage from Märklin about these addresses

https://www.maerklin.de/...ervice/reparaturservice/

Very detailed but typical Märklin only at the German homepage from Märklin available. I do not understand these Swabia guys not offering this page in English to its wordlwide customers too.

It really looks like, as this old joke about the Swabias is telling.
Do you know where the Swabias originate from? - No? - Well, from Scotland! Banished by the Scots because of their avarice. Laugh

Some people from Märklin are really stingy with their translations into Englsih and/or other languages, although they want to do more and more business outside of Germany.

Regards

TEEWolf








CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline siroljuk  
#13 Posted : 09 January 2019 12:15:49(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Thank You TEEWolfBigGrin

Now I know to where I should send broken device.

I will write detailed text what happened for service persons and send it. Then Wait.........wait, it might take several moths.
BUT . . . Now I have new device and I have time to wait.BigGrin BigGrin

I hope the warranty is valid even though the warranty period expired two months ago. I don't understand what broke the touch screen function and the audio functions. Otherwise, the device seems to play, but I don't dare to stick to the mains for longer time.

I am sure Märklin service will send me answer for my firs e-mail but it seems to take very long time.Crying Crying


Now I start to make some experimental tests using events and especially conditional events, first simple and then gradually complicated.

Have Fun everyone

Regards

Jukka
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by siroljuk
Offline David Dewar  
#14 Posted : 09 January 2019 13:45:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,548
Location: Scotland
Marklin at least do have an English site which is quote good. It depends if companies want to sell to English speaking nations. HAG are the worst and even dealers that I know of outside Switzerland wont stock anything from them.

Problem with Marklin is the delay and in particular repairing under warranty.

Not sure if they will repair Jukkas CS3 if it is out of warranty.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#15 Posted : 09 January 2019 13:50:59(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jukka

Sorry about your trouble, now you have 2 CS3 when I have noneBigGrin
I don't question your saying but I find INCREDIBLE (unlikely for one in their right mind) that Märklin has changed their back-up organization on the same model (CS3).
May be along with the troubles on your CS3, the saving was problematic. If you are able to redo the back-up on the old CS3 you may discover the file is usable by the new CS3.

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline siroljuk  
#16 Posted : 09 January 2019 14:28:00(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
May be along with the troubles on your CS3, the saving was problematic.


Hello.
That backup was made three weeks before incident, so I still think that something has been changed. My old CS3Plus was almost sure from the first series, because I was among the first ordinary clients who got new CS3Plus. Blushing Blushing Maybe.

Anyway I have made a parcel of broken device and tomorrow I will send it to Germany, if costs are too high then I ask them to send it back without repairing. I will pay the sending costs and try to solve out what I could do. Sound is not so important feature in that device and always I can "replace" touching feature to mouse. That much I examined device without opening it that it seem to work mainly.Blushing

I still wonder behavior of the backup. Not any kind of explanation if there would be some troubles during restoring backup but when I start to edit layout and try to change properties of turnout the whole screen was full off numbers and characters and I could not get the real picture back. I had to reboot the device and still layout picture was gone, only numbers and...
then I restore the firs backup which was the factory settings, it went ok. And I had to make the whole layout again from the start.
Now it is working fine, no problem.
MFX-locos cannot install themselves automatically that is perhaps known problem, at the moment I have only one logo installed to device and I will test with that all possible features until I install more locos.

Regards

Jukka
Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 09 January 2019 22:01:56(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,804
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The CS3 Plus manual (pg 7 for english) indicates the speaker output is "Line Out, connection for an active speaker". This indicates it is not a power amplified output, but provides a line level output. So you run it to a PC speaker that has its own amplification. Choosing here the sound goes (internal CS3 speaker vs the speaker output) is a setting in side the CS3 config. One could argue that design should just have plugging in an external speaker automatically disconnecting the internal speaker via the mechanical actions of the 3.5mm jack, but there are arguments for the reverse as well I suppose.

Plugging in a mono plug into a stereo jack, of course, will ground the right channel of the line output to ground and you only get the left output. Now I'd expect the sound files are mono anyway (right), and quite possibly if there is a stereo output jack in the CS3, it outputs the same signal on both left and right channels.... so that would cause both channels then to be grounded. In a well designed line-out stage, the circuit would protect itself against that. But if the odds of someone plugging in a mono 3.5mm plug was not a case they considered (or the protection circuit didn't work as designed) then you would have shorted out the line level audio output. However I don't expect that this would cause the self destruction of the CS3.. it certainly seems there is something else that went wrong in your CS3.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline siroljuk  
#18 Posted : 10 January 2019 08:04:47(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Thanks to MinokBigGrin

Your explanation seems to be logical when we remember that the in older CS2 device(early 60214) there was galvanically unprotected connectors and this is my CS3Plus is first series of device, so it may be that the shields were still not quite right. We will see after Service has examined the device.

Thanks to all the participants of the discussion, good opinions and answers, a great forumThumpUp ThumpUp

Regards
Jukka
Offline David Dewar  
#19 Posted : 10 January 2019 11:09:33(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,548
Location: Scotland
Just a quick point but you can not transfer a track diagram from the CS2 to a CS3. I think this is mentioned in the Marklin book on the CS3s.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline siroljuk  
#20 Posted : 10 January 2019 16:15:08(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Just a quick point but you can not transfer a track diagram from the CS2 to a CS3.


David you are right not from CS2 to CS3, but I found that trying to transfer from my old backup (in older CS3Plus serial 1133) main transfer is possible but when I started to edit restored layout in new CS3Plus serial 8115 ( hardware serials both) the new CS3Plus started to behave strangely. ( as I wrote earlier).

Over two years ago, when I got first CS3Plus I could see that there is not any way to get proper restore from CS2 backup. At the moment Softwares in both stations are quite different and perhaps other data, except layout, is possible to transfer. I don't have CS2 any more so I cannot test what will happend when ttry to transfer all backup-data between those device-versions.

As I wrote earlier today at another thread of this forum, I found very interesting new contact item properties end some new feature in events. They make possible to create very interesting functions to events. I am testing those features now and write later what I found.

Jukka
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