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Offline darticus  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2017 18:55:44(UTC)
darticus


Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: USA
Using ANYRAIL and Marklin track and can't build a small figure 8. Do you need special track? Whats with a figure 8 over under??? Anyone know whats needed to make a small figure 8? Thanks Ron
Offline zscalehobo  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2017 21:03:29(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 102
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: darticus Go to Quoted Post
Using ANYRAIL and Marklin track and can't build a small figure 8. Do you need special track? Whats with a figure 8 over under??? Anyone know whats needed to make a small figure 8? Thanks Ron


Hello Ron:

Anyrail is a highly accurate track planning system that assumes sectional track is perfectly the same every time nor can it flex.

That being said, there is indeed some flex allowed in Marklin tracks in my experience. This can be achieved without sacrificing track gauge. But there are many Anyrail disciples who will not touch any plan that does not work in the program. That's sad.

Using Anyrail, I just whipped up a figure 8 with a ridiculously small R145mm curved sections 8510.

It involves
12 x 8510 R145mm curves
4 x 8507 112.8mm Straights
2 x 8503 55mm Straights.

It looks like it works but not according to Anyrail. I guarantee you could get these sections to mate together. Are you a disciple of Anyrail or can you bend the track ever so slightly to make it work?

In addition, this figure 8 I have shown requires an 8978 graduated pier set and I am not sure this track setup in my example is large enough to work with the 8978.

For Marklin track, a flat figure 8 is not possible as Marklin lacks a 90-degree crossing. This item is in Rokuhan's line, which is one reason why I'd suggest using Rokuhan if you want a flat figure 8. Plus Rokuhan has so many other curves, R127mm, R145mm, R195mm, R220mm, R245mm, R270mm.... on and on.

Marklin sample "figure 8" that does not work in Anyrail, but likely can work in all practicality:
Marklin "Figure 8" with R145mm Curves 2x8507 and 2x8503
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline darticus  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2017 22:46:42(UTC)
darticus


Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: USA
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: darticus Go to Quoted Post
Using ANYRAIL and Marklin track and can't build a small figure 8. Do you need special track? Whats with a figure 8 over under??? Anyone know whats needed to make a small figure 8? Thanks Ron


Hello Ron:

Anyrail is a highly accurate track planning system that assumes sectional track is perfectly the same every time nor can it flex.

That being said, there is indeed some flex allowed in Marklin tracks in my experience. This can be achieved without sacrificing track gauge. But there are many Anyrail disciples who will not touch any plan that does not work in the program. That's sad.

Using Anyrail, I just whipped up a figure 8 with a ridiculously small R145mm curved sections 8510.

It involves
12 x 8510 R145mm curves
4 x 8507 112.8mm Straights
2 x 8503 55mm Straights.

It looks like it works but not according to Anyrail. I guarantee you could get these sections to mate together. Are you a disciple of Anyrail or can you bend the track ever so slightly to make it work?

In addition, this figure 8 I have shown requires an 8978 graduated pier set and I am not sure this track setup in my example is large enough to work with the 8978.

For Marklin track, a flat figure 8 is not possible as Marklin lacks a 90-degree crossing. This item is in Rokuhan's line, which is one reason why I'd suggest using Rokuhan if you want a flat figure 8. Plus Rokuhan has so many other curves, R127mm, R145mm, R195mm, R220mm, R245mm, R270mm.... on and on.

Marklin sample "figure 8" that does not work in Anyrail, but likely can work in all practicality:
Marklin "Figure 8" with R145mm Curves 2x8507 and 2x8503


Thanks very much for all your time and info. Maybe I should use the Rokuhan track for the figure 8 as it will run independently of the Marklin tracks. I don't know if you can connect Marklin to Rokuhan. Maybe I can try a small figure 8 on the Anyrail using Rokuhan track. My layout board is only 19.5 by 45.5 inches. DO you think Marklin flexible track could make the figure 8 to fit my layout and allow the trains to make the curved run???
Thanks again Ron

Edited by user 08 September 2017 19:00:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Bill Dickson  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2017 13:05:12(UTC)
Bill Dickson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 28/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 12
yes, you can connect Marklin to Rokuhan and there is even a Rokuhan adaptor available if you don't want to cut the plastic rail joiner support.
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 18 September 2017 23:40:27(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,214
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
But there are many Anyrail disciples who will not touch any plan that does not work in the program. That's sad.

Real world practicality should always win out.
While logic says you need a 290mm (2x145mm) length of track to cater for the R1 track radius, you don't really need a tool other than your brain to work out that 1x110+1x55+5*25 = 290.

Quote:
Marklin "Figure 8" with R145mm Curves 2x8507 and 2x8503


Attention to track laying from the point of view of the train travelling on it is extreamly important in any gauge, and common sense advises that a loco and its train is going to be far more influenced by the outer rail of a curve than the inner

My main point, however, is that if you are going to "bend slightly" I suggest you NOT compress the circle , and open gaps in the outer rail (no matter how small) but expand the circle keeping the out rail gaps closed.

As such an extra 25mm (8504) would meet this goal AND at the same time reduce the delta (from the 290mm ideal) from 15mm to 10mm
Peter
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2017 07:19:27(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,249
Location: Montreal, QC
I don't understand why the two halves of the figure 8 would not be symmetrical. If you would put each section on a sheet of paper and fold it in half, the tracks should overlap.
If in reality, there is a gap in spacing between tracks, I would suggest that this can be solved by either inserting varied lengths of straight track in the middle of the curve or by adjusting the length of one or more of the straight sections in the middle of the figure 8.
With any 2 rail DC set up, you will need to have an insulated track section so that the + and - poles are isolated from each other. If using an analog set up, you will encounter a situation where the locomotive will reverse as the polarity is inverted where the inside rail becomes the outside rail. In a digital set up, this is avoided, as the locomotive will maintain direction regardless of the actual polarity of the rails.

Looking at the diagram, I do not understand why the image shows the loop on the right to not extend as high as the one on the left. The two loops should be the same.
This page shows how Rokuhan does it. It should be the same with Maerklin: http://www.zscalehobo.co...kuhan/rokuhan_index.html

I would think that something like this might be more interesting: http://zscalehobo.com/rokuhan/R063.html

The other possibility would be to design the loops so that they come together at the centre parallel to each other and you then set up switch tracks and crossing pieces to link the two tracks, which would involve using R2 for the outer curve and R1 on the inside of the lower part of the loop so that the two loops would come together with the correct spacing for the flyover.

Regards

Mike C
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2017 13:08:53(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,214
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I don't understand why the two halves of the figure 8 would not be symmetrical. If you would put each section on a sheet of paper and fold it in half, the tracks should overlap.

Your logic is false, the image as shown is not symmetrical because the piece of track at the crossing does not extend the same length either side of it.

The R1 (8510) radius is 145mm and you cannot make that up with the available markup pieces.
You can, however make 290mm. (1x110 + 1x55 + 5*25)

But then people start complaining about the number and cost of multiple small pieces of track.

To do it nicely and give yourself space for the incline/bridge, just bite the bullet and go for the 853x R3 which does have a radius supported by straights of standard and significant lengths. (8500/8505) = KISS
Peter
Offline Crazy Harry  
#8 Posted : 20 September 2017 18:42:48(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 302
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

You can, however make 290mm. (1x110 + 1x55 + 5*25)

But then people start complaining about the number and cost of multiple small pieces of track.

To do it nicely and give yourself space for the incline/bridge, just bite the bullet and go for the 853x R3 which does have a radius supported by straights of standard and significant lengths. (8500/8505) = KISS


How about 2x8592 (100 to 120mm adjustable) and 1x8503 (55mm) - that's only 3 pieces instead of 7? Just a thought, I don't have any experience using the 8592 adjustable piece.

Harold.
Offline WeBMartians  
#9 Posted : 19 December 2018 04:27:44(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
Here ya go ... It's ugly but AnyRail says it works. Only Märklin tracks (8500, 8510, 8559, 8562, 8563, & 8591) are used. Don't forget the isolators! If you add 4 more switches, you can make a pair of sidings that effect 2 reversing loops.figurativeEight.gif
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by WeBMartians
Offline WeBMartians  
#10 Posted : 19 December 2018 04:51:04(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
...and here's a folded version that has a slightly skinnier footprint:foldedEight.gif It needs, in addition to the tracks mentioned in the earlier post, a bunch of 8520s.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by WeBMartians
Offline WeBMartians  
#11 Posted : 19 December 2018 04:53:51(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
Ooops! I botched the isolators. Here's the correct version:foldedEight.gif
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Offline WeBMartians  
#12 Posted : 19 December 2018 05:01:11(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
If you use 8592s (extensible straights), it's possible to dispense with the 8520s and use 8510s. That yields a marginally smaller footprint, too.
Offline WeBMartians  
#13 Posted : 19 December 2018 05:06:19(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
It's late at night and I missed the obvious. Here's the folded version without 8520s or 8259s: foldedEight.gif
Its footprint is 95cm by 50cm.
Offline Carim  
#14 Posted : 19 December 2018 10:46:56(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 359
Location: London
Why do you even need the diamond crossing? Just two pairs of crossovers (each facing a different direction) achieves the same effect from an operations perspective.

Carim

Offline WeBMartians  
#15 Posted : 20 December 2018 00:50:58(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
Why the crossovers:

- You're right, it's not necessary for operations. However, a simple figure-eight is ... boring.
I wanted to give the option of taking or not taking the intersection.

- Märklin 8559 angles the tracks at 13º, matching the angles of the 8560 double slip switch and the 8562, 8563, 8565, & 8566 turnouts.
Once you use an 8559, you're stuck with that 13º angle. One way to complete the use is to implement another 13º angle, for example, a turnout.

Also ... it was late and I was sleepy. :)
Offline WeBMartians  
#16 Posted : 31 December 2018 21:29:43(UTC)
WeBMartians

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Massachusetts, Worcester
In terms of a vertically separated crossover (rather than a switched nexus), I am building a Z-scale (1:220) layout with a single, vertically separated crossing. It is not symmetrical but may prove informative for this thread. The files are at Katten Koffietafel Spoorweg (https://www.anyrail.com/forum_en/index.php/topic,2998.0.html). Here is an image of the layout in case you don't want to surf over to AnyRail. webmartiansPartNumbers.gif
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Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 03 January 2019 23:44:37(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,249
Location: Montreal, QC
Back to the original issue. I know very little about Z track, but it would seem to me that a longer track section than the 8503 might have a better outcome.
For example, what track section and length did this person use for their middle figure 8?

Using the same length of track, whether on a diagonal crossing or elevating one track should resolve the issue.

Just a thought.

Regards

Mike C

Offline zscalehobo  
#18 Posted : 09 January 2019 20:01:36(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 102
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
John Cubbin made a nice series of articles about this on his blog site, Raildig, using Rokuhan tracks. https://www.raildig.com/...-figure-8-plan-resolved/
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline jwalt2065  
#19 Posted : 01 May 2019 15:59:05(UTC)
jwalt2065

United States   
Joined: 02/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Peru, Indiana
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Anyrail is a highly accurate track planning system that assumes sectional track is perfectly the same every time nor can it flex.

That being said, there is indeed some flex allowed in Marklin tracks in my experience. This can be achieved without sacrificing track gauge. But there are many Anyrail disciples who will not touch any plan that does not work in the program. That's sad.


I have made some C track layouts from the books that come with the Marklin train sets on Anyrail and some are not perfect either (C track is solid and not flexible) You have to fudge the connections between track pieces.

Regards,
John

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