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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2018 16:53:46(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
This is what a German paper published on Marklin's alleged difficulties regarding its ability to keep up with demand. See link and Google translation below.


MunichIt's steam in the boiler, but the locomotive does not move. The model railway manufacturer Märklin can currently not deliver as much as the dealers have ordered. "Demand is there, but we find it difficult to find employees for production," said owner Michael Sieber Handelsblatt.

At the two locations in Göppingen and Györ, the long-established company feels the strong competition from the local auto industry, Sieber complained. In the Filstal, it is above all Daimler and its suppliers who are attractive to the employees.

In Györ, Audi operates a factory, and many suppliers have settled around it. "There we get no applications at all", so the manufacturer. Therefore Märklin could not build up the necessary capacity to process the orders.

This is annoying for the entrepreneur. Together with his son Florian, Sieber took over the battered model railway brand five years ago. For years, the Franks rehabilitated the at times highly loss-making Swabian manufacturer, while the sales slumped in front of him. Now the locomotives, wagons and rails are finally in demand again because they can not keep up with the production.


M's demand problems
Offline artfull dodger  
#2 Posted : 16 December 2018 18:07:16(UTC)
artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 475
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Its both a woe and a good indicator that the hobby is far from dying out. Over here in the USA, many companies are struggling to find enough folks skilled in the trades. Getting kids interested in trade work has long been neglected in the public education schools for many years. So we lack the machinests, welders and other tradesmen/women to fill these jobs. If only I lived there, I would rather assemble trains for Marklin than transmissions for FCA. That is if they would work with someone who is on the spectrum. So many companies over here wont give folks on the spectrum a chance. I am blessed to have a good union job with a company that uses my strengths and helps with my challenges. I hope Marklin can find the workers they need(incentive packages to move to those cities and work for them maybe?), Till then, we as modelers need to be patient with the delays in production and product delivery. I applaud Marklin for being upfront and honest about their challenges to producing the models we enjoy. Best wishes to them in the coming new year! Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 16 December 2018 18:17:55(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
The dark side of me is skeptical of Marklin's claim to be overwhelmed with orders. I don't see at all why that would be all of a sudden.

It's perhaps a ploy to sell the business claiming there is so much growth and potential.... Woot
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 16 December 2018 18:38:32(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The dark side of me is skeptical of Marklin's claim to be overwhelmed with orders. I don't see at all why that would be all of a sudden.

It's perhaps a ploy to sell the business claiming there is so much growth and potential.... Woot


Or an excuse for putting the prices up "because they are having ot pay staff so much more to retain them" ... Scared Scared Scared Scared

Prices do seem to be escalating these days, witness the price increases in Insider models.

4415 Hobby series refrigerated wagons used to be <10 Euro not that long ago (and some of the long established models still being produced are not far off that price), but as new ones are introduced they are in the 15-20 Euro range, even though they are using the well established car body and chassis, and there is still only two or three colour tampon printing on them.
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Offline artfull dodger  
#5 Posted : 16 December 2018 19:44:04(UTC)
artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 475
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Prices have gone up on everything model train related. The prices for common USA prototype rolling stock(non Marklin) is shocking for those returning to the hobby after many years absence. Common grain hopper cars are $25 or more a car, that adds up fast when building a unit train. Auto rack cars are pushing well past $50 per car. All of this is stuff coming from China. Most USA model train shows are a huge selection of second hand items from estates and modelers paring down thier collections and less of the brand new stuff. Most of said new stuff has been produced to preorders with very little left beyond that other than larger shops that order a couple for store stock. This has driven up prices as well, in addition to all related costs going up such as materials, payroll, tooling ect. While they might be struggling to keep/retain workers(money isnt the whole picture as to why a employee might leave), working conditions, treatment of employees(moral) is also important to retaining workers. Many of my past jobs, I dealt with managers and owners that were indiffernet to someone on the spectrum or downright condensending and mean. While I prefer an honest wage for an honest days work, I wont work in a hostile enviroment. I am sure there is more to the issues Markin is facing with keeping up with production schedules, the article just focused on just one of those issues. And its one faced by more than just model train builders. Its a world wide shortage of "blue collar" workers.
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline PhillipL  
#6 Posted : 16 December 2018 21:05:37(UTC)
PhillipL

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123
Kadee has been very successful here in the U.S.. They are family owned and make everything in house. They rarely if ever fall behind in delivering new items on time to market. To be honest they manufacture couplers (many different types) and limited quantities of freight cars. Their items are of the very best quality.
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Offline mrmarklin  
#7 Posted : 17 December 2018 00:19:23(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 890
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The dark side of me is skeptical of Marklin's claim to be overwhelmed with orders. I don't see at all why that would be all of a sudden.

It's perhaps a ploy to sell the business claiming there is so much growth and potential.... Woot


It’s true that deliveries are much slower now than in the past several years. Plus the German economy is doing very well.

So I don’t believe what you are saying is true.

From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
Offline Legless  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2018 06:00:39(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
To me, if I have to wait a bit longer, or a lot longer, so when I do receive it, I enjoy it more.
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 17 December 2018 10:06:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Since the insolvency Märklin Germany are paying lower wages than negotiated by the unions.
So it is clear that other companies selling standard wages are more attractive for potential applicants.

Märklin have fired hundreds of workers in the Göppingen area when they moved production east (Sonneberg, Győr, China, ...). People may still have that on their minds when applying for jobs.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline artfull dodger  
#10 Posted : 17 December 2018 23:34:07(UTC)
artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 475
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Very true Tom, if they have a recent history of cutting jobs and sub standard pay, then they will not attract workers if other jobs are available in the local area. The service industry and retail stores are finding that out here in the USA. Paying min wage will not get them quality workers but ones that usually fail the drug screen or have poor work ethics. Are the Marklin plants Union or non Union? Locally, the non Union automotive plants compete with the Union ones by offering darn near the same level of pay and benefits to keep the employees from trying to unionize. So far it has been successful. Mike
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 18 December 2018 01:14:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The dark side of me is skeptical of Marklin's claim to be overwhelmed with orders. I don't see at all why that would be all of a sudden.

It's perhaps a ploy to sell the business claiming there is so much growth and potential.... Woot


this may sound good on paper but in reality these type of statements means nothing.

a.) if there is a demand on products and they can't deliver it, the operational side is inadequate,
b.) any supposed lost orders can't be included in a sales price.
c.) if you report an increase in future sales, as a buyer I would be very skeptical and why would you sell a company that forecasts increased sales ?

if they can't get staff to produce the products the next link is China, Vietnam or Korea, almost every citizen is an engineer or has a degree in engineering.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline TEEWolf  
#12 Posted : 18 December 2018 02:09:13(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Already the heading of this article of the "Handelsblatt" is nonsense. Märklin won't be overwhelmed by work. Perhaps, now happened they planned 1 or 2 years ago already. Sieber jr. himself confessed last year in an interview, they need longer time for the turnaround as they have planned. They are ready for more sales.

Absolutely obvious is it by the last sentence at the article:

"Then a restructuring agreement expires, which demanded some concessions from the employees, including longer working hours. They will probably have to accommodate the people."

These concessions were not made by the Siebers. They were made between the insolvency administrator and the employees. Otherwise this company would not have been sold to anybody, because of the strict social security laws in Germany. It costs horrendous amounts of money every company, which has to diminish its personnel.

What expires next year is an agreement of protection against dismissals, the Siebers had to accept while buying Märklin. This article is mainly politics against the shareholders, the owner, the Sieber family. Because what could really happen, if they have achieved strong efforts in the productivity over the last 5 years? Perhaps then they suddenly have to much employees on board and then? For me, this article is just and only a political one, nothing else.

For me only it is important that Märklin will further produce nice Insider locos every year. Ah – well - yes these Insider locos are the only one Märklin guarantees that they are “Made in Germany” and nowhere else in the world.Smile
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 18 December 2018 09:10:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
What expires next year is an agreement of protection against dismissals, the Siebers had to accept while buying Märklin. This article is mainly politics against the shareholders, the owner, the Sieber family.
Oh, really? The Siebers bought after these concessions (by the workers) were extended until 2019. It was easy to fire people under insolvency regulations and the remaining workers had to accept lower wages. To me it sounds as if the concessions are, all in all, good for the "shareholders".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#14 Posted : 18 December 2018 22:46:17(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
I came across that article in another MRR forum a few days ago. Actually, I find it hard to believe that demand for Märklin items has increased significantly. Even if the information published in the 'Handelsblatt' is true, there's one revealing sentence in there. A Märklin spokesman claims that the factory in Györ does not get any job applications at all when there are vacancies. That's odd, isn't it? Would industry workers avoid a good company that pays decent wages?

IMO this means that Märklin pays lower wages than other industries in that town. Even in Göppingen, Märklin appears to have problems recruiting workers according to this article, so Märklin wages might be below the metal industry average in south-west Germany. Who is to blame here? Not the workers, I think.

One or two years ago, the new Märklin owners blamed second-hand sales for Märklin's sagging turnover, and now unwilling workers are said to prevent Märklin from satisfying the demand for MRR products ... Given the exorbitant prices for some new items, Märklin could probably afford a salary increase to fix that problem.

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:59:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 19 December 2018 00:13:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
I came across that article in another MRR forum a few days ago. Actually, I find it hard to believe that demand for Märklin items has increased significantly.


I don't think that the demand has increased that much, I suspect it is more a case of they introduce too many new models each year and just do not have the production capacity. I do think they could trim the number of new models to allow production time for the quantities they need to produce and get the models they do introduce out on time.

They do seem to like ot produce as many possible liveries of a model as soon as they bring it out, e.g. the G2000 loco was introduced with four or five liveries in the NI brochure where it was first announced. Now this may make a lot of sense for the manufacturing line in that the only process that needs to change is painting the body, so they keep the CNC and casting machines running on the same model for longer, but meanwhile other models get pushed down the delivery timetable.

They could do with leaving some models to the summer NI or autumn NI brochures to introduce them once they have seen how the order quantities for the New Items pan out. If they have large orders for the new Items then introduce fewer models in Summer and Autumn, if the initial orders are down leaving production time available then introduce more models in the Summer and Autumn.

And while thinking about items to be announced at Nurnberg Toy Fair I suggest that the Br24 re-classed as a Br37, as introduced in the Trix line in the 2018 NI is probably on the cards - yet another case of producing a model that is already being produced with just a paint job change.

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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 19 December 2018 10:28:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
[...] I suspect it is more a case of they introduce too many new models each year and just do not have the production capacity.
Almost every year Märklin say that they expect an increase of their sales - before the Siebers came and after the Siebers came.
There are two options for growth: finding new customers or selling more or more expensive items to the existing customers.

Companies that want to grow must bear in mind that they need enough machinery and enough workforce.
Poor Märklin - they have to go for "Made in China" coz they do not find workers in Germany and Hungary.
When it comes to crocodile tears, the Märklin management has always been top class.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline David Dewar  
#17 Posted : 19 December 2018 12:13:49(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
I came across that article in another MRR forum a few days ago. Actually, I find it hard to believe that demand for Märklin items has increased significantly.


I don't think that the demand has increased that much, I suspect it is more a case of they introduce too many new models each year and just do not have the production capacity. I do think they could trim the number of new models to allow production time for the quantities they need to produce and get the models they do introduce out on time.

They do seem to like ot produce as many possible liveries of a model as soon as they bring it out, e.g. the G2000 loco was introduced with four or five liveries in the NI brochure where it was first announced. Now this may make a lot of sense for the manufacturing line in that the only process that needs to change is painting the body, so they keep the CNC and casting machines running on the same model for longer, but meanwhile other models get pushed down the delivery timetable.

They could do with leaving some models to the summer NI or autumn NI brochures to introduce them once they have seen how the order quantities for the New Items pan out. If they have large orders for the new Items then introduce fewer models in Summer and Autumn, if the initial orders are down leaving production time available then introduce more models in the Summer and Autumn.

And while thinking about items to be announced at Nurnberg Toy Fair I suggest that the Br24 re-classed as a Br37, as introduced in the Trix line in the 2018 NI is probably on the cards - yet another case of producing a model that is already being produced with just a paint job change.




Agreed Alan. Produce fewer models and ensure better testing before despatch. Spring and Autumn would be enough for anything new and even then older models should be retained in the catalogue where there has been good sales to allow others to purchase at a later date. Not everybody buys everything instantly that is produced. There are times when I would buy something that was produced two years ago but is no longer available.
As for changing paint jobs HAG was at the top of the list for that with their advertising on the side of locos etc although some still collected them no doubt just to sit on a shelf and never run.

I am just happy the company keeps going as they are the only ones that supply everything that is needed for my three rail layout that I know about although i expect there will be somebody out there who knows different.

Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Bahnhof fan  
#18 Posted : 27 January 2019 22:37:15(UTC)
Bahnhof fan

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Midwest
A great idea for Maerklin... Move to the USA. We still have a 5 day work week. Make Maerklin Great Again!

Bahnhof fan
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 27 January 2019 23:01:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bahnhof fan Go to Quoted Post
Move to the USA. We still have a 5 day work week.
Germany still has a 6-day work week. Only the bally unions turned this into a 5-day work week effectively.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#20 Posted : 28 January 2019 01:31:28(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Judging by what I see available at Mike's in Toronto (a very fair-priced store), Marklin is putting itself out of reach of the pocket of most consumers.

I am not going to pay Cad $600-$700 for a locomotive.

In addition to their high prices, Marklin's quality control sucks. If it weren't for Mike, buying a Marklin loco is equivalent to playing Russian roulette: You pay a lot of money and it becomes a toss up that something does not work properly. Mike has saved Marklin's behind on a number of occasions in fixing FAST problems with the locos or digital turnouts I bought.


Can you imagine having to send the darn things to Germany to have them fixed? That is the equivalent of telling the customer to fly a kite. Scared

Bottom line: Marklin needs to reduce their prices and ensure quality control is ten times better.
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Offline mike c  
#21 Posted : 29 January 2019 03:30:28(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
I came across that article in another MRR forum a few days ago. Actually, I find it hard to believe that demand for Märklin items has increased significantly. Even if the information published in the 'Handelsblatt' is true, there's one revealing sentence in there. A Märklin spokesman claims that the factory in Györ does not get any job applications at all when there are vacancies. That's odd, isn't it? Would industry workers avoid a good company that pays decent wages?

IMO this means that Märklin pays lower wages than other industries in that town. Even in Göppingen, Märklin appears to have problems recruiting workers according to this article, so Märklin wages might be below the metal industry average in south-west Germany. Who is to blame here? Not the workers, I think.

One or two years ago, the new Märklin owners blamed second-hand sales for Märklin's sagging turnover, and now unwilling workers are said to prevent Märklin from satisfying the demand for MRR products ... Given the exorbitant prices for some new items, Märklin could probably afford a salary increase to fix that problem.

Best regards,

Mark


I believe that the report stated that Maerklin was having problems finding qualified workers due to competition from the Audi plant and one other company in Györ.

I presume that there is also an element of concern that the MRR industry might not be as reliable a career as working for a major car company.

As far as demand. It is not the customer who is making demands, but distributors and dealers, who then either sell the goods to customers or keep them as shelf queens until somebody decides to splurge on one of them.

Regards

Mike C

Offline Mark_1602  
#22 Posted : 29 January 2019 07:07:27(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post


As far as demand. It is not the customer who is making demands, but distributors and dealers, who then either sell the goods to customers or keep them as shelf queens until somebody decides to splurge on one of them.


True, the dealers buy the stuff from Märklin, but they only order more if they think they can sell it. I wonder how much of Märklin's higher turnover is actually due to price increases ...

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:58:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline stockerta  
#23 Posted : 29 January 2019 13:19:59(UTC)
stockerta

Hungary   
Joined: 30/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 52
Location: Gyor-Moson-Sopron, Sopron
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
I came across that article in another MRR forum a few days ago. Actually, I find it hard to believe that demand for Märklin items has increased significantly. Even if the information published in the 'Handelsblatt' is true, there's one revealing sentence in there. A Märklin spokesman claims that the factory in Györ does not get any job applications at all when there are vacancies. That's odd, isn't it? Would industry workers avoid a good company that pays decent wages?

IMO this means that Märklin pays lower wages than other industries in that town. Even in Göppingen, Märklin appears to have problems recruiting workers according to this article, so Märklin wages might be below the metal industry average in south-west Germany. Who is to blame here? Not the workers, I think.

One or two years ago, the new Märklin owners blamed second-hand sales for Märklin's sagging turnover, and now unwilling workers are said to prevent Märklin from satisfying the demand for MRR products ... Given the exorbitant prices for some new items, Märklin could probably afford a salary increase to fix that problem.

Best regards,

Mark


I believe that the report stated that Maerklin was having problems finding qualified workers due to competition from the Audi plant and one other company in Györ.

I presume that there is also an element of concern that the MRR industry might not be as reliable a career as working for a major car company.

As far as demand. It is not the customer who is making demands, but distributors and dealers, who then either sell the goods to customers or keep them as shelf queens until somebody decides to splurge on one of them.

Regards

Mike C



Every industry in Hungary has problems getting workers. Especially in the western regions, because for not much bigger daily commute you get 3-4x much pay in Austria.
Audi pays a bit better than an average factory, but not much for the unskilled workers. The workers there are on a strike since last week because even in Slovakia the pay is better by ~20%, and Audi on ly want to give them a 10% raise.
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Offline dominator  
#24 Posted : 29 January 2019 20:49:40(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Thanks Stockerta . Ya cant beat local knowledge compared to guess work eh.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Minok  
#25 Posted : 29 January 2019 21:37:50(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
It seems a very complex problem indeed. Yes, Märklin is coming out of some restrictions and concessions related to exit out of administration form the insolvency process. So potential workers may well want to see how things look once Märklin is employing again by full market and labor union rules.

The trades are an issue, in terms of training, but training for trades is so much better in Germany than it is in the USA. Different career paths and trade training is actually a supported and major path in Germany; while it doesn't really exist in the USA. But generally, if trade employees are handled like they are in the US, its no wonder they would rather work for Daimler, Porsche, Audi, etc. When companies hire and fire employees like moving leased chairs at the need from year to year, who would want to follow a career in such an environment. Sure there are some, but I'd expect even trade skill workers would prefer some stability in their employment - hence the bigger more stable machinist and assembly work at car and industrial equipment makers.... until at least Märklin has some years under its belt post reorg in the normal labor market again.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 31 January 2019 16:04:00(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
When companies hire and fire employees like moving leased chairs at the need from year to year, who would want to follow a career in such an environment.


A career with one company for life is mostly gone here in the US these days, but is perhaps a bit more attainable in Europe. Just try to find a trade worker to repair your things here in the US and you will see how little we value these important skills today.

I am a senior and highly skilled software developer but I don't feel that my future is tied to just one employer. Everyone I know is constantly looking for a better job, even if the one they currently have is OK for the moment. We are all treated like disposable widgets and we are near the top of the current US labor pool. Things only get worse for workers with more general purpose skills.

So it is not hard to understand that factory workers who are treated poorly jump at any chance to improve their lot in life. Building high quality model trains is a special skill but I doubt that the people who do the actual work are valued much and hence Märklin's difficulty in hiring and retaining top quality employees. With the prices we are paying for model trains today it would seem that the manufacturers could afford to pay their workers more, but the poor financial performance of most of them brings that argument into doubt.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#27 Posted : 31 January 2019 16:08:08(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Bottom line: Marklin needs to reduce their prices and ensure quality control is ten times better.


So very true. With Märklin's soaring prices and lackluster quality control I find myself buying fewer and fewer items from them anymore. But although I agree with your assessment I don't really see much chance of that happening.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 31 January 2019 21:07:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
But although I agree with your assessment I don't really see much chance of that happening.
Higher prices lead to smaller production runs which lead to higher prices...

It will be difficult for Märklin to increase their profit while lowering the prices. Difficult, but not impossible. But yes, rather unlikely.

It seems Roco overstretched their prices and lowered them for some items.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Minok  
#29 Posted : 31 January 2019 21:33:42(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The general iron triangle of project management still applies
UserPostedImage

For a given quality/budget you trade of features for time to market for the cost of the product.

If you want the product to be cheap, you either have to give up features, give up quality or give up time to market.

I think a lot of the model world would like to get a product that has a venn diagram where the circles do not overlap anywhere: cheap, with key must have features, at a top quality, and available in the next year.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Mark_1602  
#30 Posted : 31 January 2019 22:04:38(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

It will be difficult for Märklin to increase their profit while lowering the prices. Difficult, but not impossible. But yes, rather unlikely.

It seems Roco overstretched their prices and lowered them for some items.


We all know that Märklin won't reduce prices. They sell their products to customers who don't mind ... [Please feel free to fill in the blank as you wish.Wink ]

Roco is owned by a bank that has taken over that company twice and sold it once so far. Nobody wants to buy Roco now because of the highly questionable part that the Austrian bank played in the first insolvency and because Roco has lost so much money in recent years. To balance the books, costs will have to be cut aggressively in the next years. Once that's been done and if most of the production is moved to Vietnam, there will probably be a Chinese buyer who wants the brand name and whatever will be left of Roco (and Fleischmann). In the last few years, we have witnessed the demise of the Roco Club, the magazine, and Fleischmann H0. What will be next?

Märklin's woes are really minor as compared to that, aren't they? After a salary increase for workers and further price increases for customers, business will go on as usual. Märklin's profit margin is much lower now than during the insolvency, but that's normal because the huge debts accumulated before 2009 have to be repaid slowly.

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:58:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#31 Posted : 01 February 2019 01:04:37(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

I think a lot of the model world would like to get a product that has a venn diagram where the circles do not overlap anywhere: cheap, with key must have features, at a top quality, and available in the next year.


It is not just in the MRR world where expectations are out of line with reality. That sounds just like some of the most successful PMs where I work - over promise in every way and then tell us that getting there is our responsibility. So schedules are missed and quality slips and things are not as buttoned up under the covers as we would like, but it goes out the door with a PR guy to explain the "features". BigGrin

We have excellent, no drama, always on schedule PMs and they bring in a lot of cash and are good to work for. But the clueless suckups are who mostly get the promotions. So over time the quality of our business declines as management knows less about what we actually do, and then our market share declines as well.

I wonder why? Wink
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#32 Posted : 01 February 2019 01:41:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
We all know that Märklin won't reduce prices. They sell their products to customers who don't mind ... [Please feel free to fill in the blank as you wish.Wink ]

Leaving that statement open really sums it all up in my opinion. People collect Märklin because they have them, for their history or the beauty of their finer models or whatever but not generally for their intrinsic value - it's just a Märklin thing. Cool

The price increases are a sign of a brand moving from being a commodity to a luxury item in many cases. No one thinks that luxury watches with many complications actually cost near what they are sold for, which is status. That might be where Märklin needs to be in order to see profits high enough to do the expensive fabrication in Germany, which really is what we all would prefer I believe.

So maybe this is the trade off that we have been waiting for or maybe it is a huge price increase for selling the same fish in new paper, which they are so good at. When they show a fall surprise, super detailed beauty made in Göppingen I will believe that they have reached their objective. Cool

Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post


Märklin's woes are really minor as compared to that, aren't they? After a salary increase for workers and further price increases for customers, business will go on as usual. Märklin's profit margin is much lower now than during the insolvency, but that's normal because the huge debts accumulated before 2009 have to be repaid slowly.

Best regards,

Mark


I do agree. I have a lot of Märklin stuff and I want them to survive in what is becoming an increasingly tight market for this stuff. They are following a good business model which increases their chances of survival, from what I can see.

Now if we could at least have stable pricing and much better QC I would be happy once again. Probably. Maybe. Wink
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline PhillipL  
#33 Posted : 02 February 2019 01:22:25(UTC)
PhillipL

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

It will be difficult for Märklin to increase their profit while lowering the prices. Difficult, but not impossible. But yes, rather unlikely.

It seems Roco overstretched their prices and lowered them for some items.


We all know that Märklin won't reduce prices. They sell their products to customers who don't mind ... [Please feel free to fill in the blank as you wish.Wink ]

Roco is owned by a bank that has taken over that company twice and sold it once so far. Nobody wants to buy Roco now because of the highly questionable part that the Austrian bank played in the first insolvency and because Roco has lost so much money in recent years. To balance the books, costs will have to be cut aggressively in the next years. Once that's been done and if most of the production is moved to Vietnam, there will probably be a Chinese buyer who wants the brand name and whatever will be left of Roco (and Fleischmann). In the last few years, we have witnessed the demise of the Roco Club, the magazine, and Fleischmann H0. What will be next?

Märklin's woes are really minor as compared to that, aren't they? After a salary increase for workers and further price increases for customers, business will go on as usual. Märklin's profit margin is much lower now than during the insolvency, but that's normal because the huge debts accumulated before 2009 have to be repaid slowly.

Best regards,

Mark


I did not realize ROCO was in such a mess. I have seen their quality take nose dive to the point where coupler springs pop off, couplers are installed upside down and freight cars crumble in your hands (had that happen last year with a Minol tank car). I have begun to avoid their offerings after being stuck several times. At least now I have a better understanding of what happened to them. Very sad.
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Offline Bahnhof fan  
#34 Posted : 18 October 2019 01:58:21(UTC)
Bahnhof fan

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Midwest
I’ve been a Marklin Fan for along time. I’ve worked at Marklin Inc and the Marklin Club. While I still have a passion for the product, it’s fading! Management has lost the need to listen to consumers. There was a time when attention to detail and authenticity were important... now not so much.

Marklin had many dedicated people working for it in New Berlin. Ken Brzenk was a tremendous asset. His service was proof that the factory really cared. There was some communication between the factory and the American consumer. I don’t see it now. Try finding the new Missouri office online. I will never understand why Marklin GmbH located a new office hundreds of miles away from its distributor. It makes no sense!
Offline JohnjeanB  
#35 Posted : 18 October 2019 13:44:18(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I am sorry to disagree
I started collecting Marklin trains since 1961. I like the brand. At one moment I started collecting 800 locos and sets.
Now I prefer latest Marklin locos. Their quality is very good for most cases.
I believe producing trains with European wages is probably not so easy. Yes now a loco is 500€ often but in the old days a ccs800 was close to one month salary
So Marklin didnot go down IMO
Cheers
Jean
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Offline Goofy  
#36 Posted : 27 October 2019 10:20:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
The quality cost!
The better quality, the more expensive.
But sometimes there is cons too even made of Märklin/Trix.
When i was younger Märklin was alone to have good quality and service.
Today there is other competitors which present and produce good quality too but also do have some cons like Märklin.
Even Märklin system woes and Märklin must fix the problems because customer see and understanding the system working good and bad.
There is always pro and cons.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline river6109  
#37 Posted : 27 October 2019 12:57:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I will always have Märklin in my mind for good or not so good reasons and I wouldn't like to speculate what is good and what is bad if that word really exists with the Märklin brand., the cost of train models to day is beyond my budget., I rather buy 10 Sound decoders instead of buying 1 loco., maybe one day I get tempted and buy the French Steam loco.
I've converted all my Analogue locos to digital and I can say I'm a proud owner of them all and nothing has fallen off so far.
The details are in the running my trains (locos) on my layout and its not the add on bits, how many rivets it has or it lacks braking shoes, the fact is they are still running, still make a noise and I wish you all to be happy for what you've got and appreciate it and if you can't afford it we all go back to our childhood era and dream about it., it makes me almost cry. BigGrin

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline David Dewar  
#38 Posted : 27 October 2019 16:17:21(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I will always have Märklin in my mind for good or not so good reasons and I wouldn't like to speculate what is good and what is bad if that word really exists with the Märklin brand., the cost of train models to day is beyond my budget., I rather buy 10 Sound decoders instead of buying 1 loco., maybe one day I get tempted and buy the French Steam loco.
I've converted all my Analogue locos to digital and I can say I'm a proud owner of them all and nothing has fallen off so far.
The details are in the running my trains (locos) on my layout and its not the add on bits, how many rivets it has or it lacks braking shoes, the fact is they are still running, still make a noise and I wish you all to be happy for what you've got and appreciate it and if you can't afford it we all go back to our childhood era and dream about it., it makes me almost cry. BigGrin

John


I only buy one loco per year and then only if I really want it. I prefer to buy more coaches and also faller kits. There is a limit to the number of locos you can run on a regular basis and for me I do not like anything sitting doing nothing. As for quality I don’t have any problems with Marklin and I always buy from a good dealer.
Regarding cost I prefer to buy what I want and not just something because it is cheap. Better to have one good loco than two cheap ones is my view and that gives more pleasure knowing I have made the purchase that I really want.
Model rail should be fun and not rushing to buy the latest must have item.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Jabez  
#39 Posted : 27 October 2019 17:25:57(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
I tend to agree with you. As a fairly recent returnee to the hobby I restarted by buying several locos to cover the types I felt I needed and to assess various mnfrs. Now that my basic loco needs are covered I am much more selective in what I buy, even if they are more expensive than those I might have chosen when I restarted.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline dickinsonj  
#40 Posted : 28 October 2019 00:00:43(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post

Regarding cost I prefer to buy what I want and not just something because it is cheap. Better to have one good loco than two cheap ones is my view and that gives more pleasure knowing I have made the purchase that I really want.

Model rail should be fun and not rushing to buy the latest must have item.


That is exactly my goal as well David. Buy just what I really want and only the special items, which is how I started in this hobby. But over the last three years I have been filling in a lot of voids, and I am finally ready to get back to that more sustainable level of buying. I find that I value what I buy more when I buy less and I really have the time to get to know a new part of my MRR world. Cool

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#41 Posted : 28 October 2019 00:53:56(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I rather buy 10 Sound decoders instead of buying 1 loco., maybe one day I get tempted and buy the French Steam loco.
I've converted all my Analogue locos to digital and I can say I'm a proud owner of them all and nothing has fallen off so far.


John, I also get a huge amount of enjoyment from taking old Märklin models and bringing the sounds, motors and lighting up to date. Last year I updated the decoder in my 20 year old California Zephyr and it looks better than new with better sound and runs like a dream. Cool

But if you are going to break down for something, the French steamers are amazing models with incredible detail. My 241-A-65 is among the most beautiful locos that I have ever owned and it takes your eyes away from all the other locos running on your tracks, much like a Big Boy or Challenger will. ThumpUp

That makes it a very good temptation to succumb to IMO. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Goofy  
#42 Posted : 28 October 2019 08:01:33(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
The market woes too.
Customer woes too.
I believe we will have soon hard time comes.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline David Dewar  
#43 Posted : 28 October 2019 12:09:35(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The market woes too.
Customer woes too.
I believe we will have soon hard time comes.


Just what I wanted to read on a Monday morning. Will go and have a lie down.

Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#44 Posted : 28 October 2019 13:43:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The market woes too.
Customer woes too.
I believe we will have soon hard time comes.


Just what I wanted to read on a Monday morning. Will go and have a lie down.



BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin Some whisky needed as well to dull the pain methinks ... Mellow

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Offline Goofy  
#45 Posted : 24 November 2019 09:43:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
There is a book to read it.
"Model railway on a budget"
An interested fact about model railways business market are assets to resources is hard today than before, because of the model railways business has been more expanded and use resources more.
We men are just like women by shopping, just difference! LOL
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#46 Posted : 24 November 2019 10:51:27(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin Some whisky needed as well to dull the pain methinks ... Mellow


Plenty Water of Life stocks left in the back of the Cave.

We could all have a wee dram to celebrate Flash Dave's birthday! ThumpUp
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Offline steventrain  
#47 Posted : 01 February 2020 12:28:10(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
In the 2019/2020 financial year, Märklin was able to increase its sales by 5 to 117 million euros - and for the second year in a row. «The image of the model railroad has changed. The hobby is out of the cellar corner, »said the managing partner, Florian Sieber, in Fürth . The classic customers are 40 years and older - parents or grandparents who then share their passion with their children or grandchildren.


The total turnover of the Simba Dickie Group grew by 14 percent to 702.3 million euros last year - however, the majority of this is due to acquisitions. If you exclude this, sales remained almost at the previous year's level. The family company generally does not provide any information on the profit.

Despite a difficult market situation, Simba Dickie expects sales to increase again to EUR 725 million in the current financial year. 60 percent of the production is in China. Given the trade dispute with the United States and the political situation in Hong Kong, that is questionable, said company boss Michael Sieber. “I don't think China can be replaced as quickly in the short term.” In the long term, the manufacturer wants to make itself less dependent on China and is therefore looking for alternatives in India, Vietnam and Africa.

From Welt news.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#48 Posted : 01 February 2020 16:45:42(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
OK, sales have increased, but I think that's due to price increases as well as to the fact that Märklin is trying hard to sell us more expensive items, such as passenger cars with built-in LED lights. The question is how long customers will tolerate that. 80 euros for certain DB passenger cars is a very high price that might be justified if they were 1:87, with all the correct measurements. Märklin's 1:93.5 cars are not as wide as they should be, some proportions are wrong, and on top of that they look bad in curves.

Märklin's doing well right now and makes a profit every year according to Mr Sieber, but how much more money can they squeeze out of existing customers in the coming years? The key to future success would be to find new customers, but that will be hard.

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:58:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline Goofy  
#49 Posted : 02 February 2020 12:28:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post

The key to future success would be to find new customers, but that will be hard.

Best regards,
Mark


Why should it be hard to find new customers?

Confused



H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Mark_1602  
#50 Posted : 02 February 2020 14:44:01(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Why should it be hard to find new customers?

Confused


It's a shrinking market, isn't it? Try to find people under 40 who want to start spending money on MRR items. Today's typical father with young kids would have the plan vetoed by his wife. Mr Sieber claims in Märklin TV 103 that Märklin has found new, younger customers, but I don't think he's talking about large numbers.

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:57:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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