Hi All..

We have a CS3 with a variety of new and old locos DCC. But some are behaving strangely.
None of the Locos have had decoder updates? Could this be it??
To do decoder updates we would need the mDecoderTool3 ? from a PC directly into the CS3 by WLAN cable ???

Thanks in advance

Nick

Hello Nick.

You should tell us more about strange behavior also tell us is it CS3 or CS3Plus and which update version.
I would like to know also if you have terminal connected to your layout.
I had earlier broken terminal 60125 connected to my layout and it caused very strange behavior to whole layout and some of my locos.
That terminal was not so broken that it wouldn't work at all, I changed one component inside terminal to new one and no strange behavior any more.

Regards

Jukka

Very useful info...
My friend will have to come back with the behaviour thing..

Only 4 Locos.. PMed you ..

We don't know what the problem is, but we know which dealer sold it.
That surely helps a lot.

Those "old DCC locos" turn out to be "new mfx+ locos". So we are making some progress.

BTW: That dealer has a nice shop IRL. Worth a visit.

We are also having a problem with.. Maerklin 37835 BR50 steam loco

Can the decoders be changed if sent back to the shop?

Gents,

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions on this topic. The problem is with 2 of my MFX+ locos: Maerklin 37008 (BR 50) and 37835 (V 100). They start off and any functions chosen ie pumps, whistles etc work as required. After a few seconds, the functions do not work and the loco cannot be slowed down, or the speed cannot be increased. To stop the loco, the large stop button has to be pressed. My other 2 MFX+ locos are at present without any problems and there are no problems with my 50 MFX locos. When the MFX+ locos are "running out of control", the MFX locos are working perfectly.
I have tried a factory reset and loco update on these 2 locos, but they still do not work properly.

The layout is mine, but my friend Nick (who started this discussion) is the technical expert, who is helping me out.

I have moved the power pack away from the CS3, so thanks for that suggestion.

Ian.

Hello Ian,

welcome to the forum.

Interesting that only 2 locos out of over 50 including other mfx and mfx+ locos show a misbehaviour! It only can be a problem at these 2 locos not at the CS 3. And probably it has to do with the mfx+ function. My assumption is that somewhere a configuration variable has changed. But which one?

What sounds very strange to me, you made a reset to the mfx+ loco and they still behave not like a mfx+ loco? For a few seconds they are working correctly before they change their behaviour?

Perhaps may you set them one after another on a separate programming track, also they are mfx+ locos? Test the behaviour for every single loco on a separate isolated track, even Märklin says it is not necessary, but yet I do it with my CS 3+ too. Because sometimes I get unexplainable results or effects as well. Please try one or more resets again. Delete the mfx loco from your loco list, so your CS 3 is completely "clean" from this loco. It does not matter, because as a mfx one it is re-registering again easily and please watch this registering, if there is any difference to another registering mfx loco identifiable.

Still not knowing yet all details, functions and internal connections of the very complex CS 3 system, I prevent any influence to and from my regular layout. Sometimes it works and I do not know why. Very often I realized, I had forgotten saving changes or I made changes by hitting the touch screen accidentally without realizing it deleting the changes before saving. Since I am very carefully and mainly use a mouse the results getting better.

At the moment myself I cannot identify any reason for this misbehaviour. Please proceed with your efforts watching at which step you are achieving which result. Keep in mind both locos also can have faulty decoders inside as well. Please, keep us updated with your results. Thanks.

Best regards

TEEWolf

Hello.
One thing you can do: Open the locos and run them without cover. Look carefully the motor if there is any kind of sparking check motor carefully put your finger on the decode area if it is possible after running,is it hot?

I have not mfx+ locos but all other kind of decoders i have which I have installed to old and very old Märklin locos and at the same time changed motors too.

Sometimes my change work is not so good quality and short circuits has been many times. Any kind of short circuit causes odd behavior.Sometimes faulty capacitor is the reason.

Sometimes I have seen also poor soldering which have caused problems even in new devices ( not in Märklin products though ).

Hope you can find reason soon and tell us what was the main reason

Regards

Jukka

Thats an interesting answer... Not sure it applies to modern DCC locos behaving in this way. maybe good advice for DC.. as it seems to be a decoder issue in our case..
But Hey then i could be wrong :-) and don't mind to be corrected :-)

Hi Ian

This is exactly what I had when the power supply 60101 on my CS2 was close to another power supply (100W PC Power supply). Some of the locos were bahaving as if receiving contradictory orders (Light on , off, start, stop). In my case I had first to solve the issue at the 60061 or 60101 level and then do a factory reset (may be twice). Temporarily I used another digital system (my old CS1) to force the loco to re-register.

Cheers

Jean

Hi Ian

Is the Uhlenbrock Intellibox MFX-capable?. You may have to re-register your locos with another Central unit.
Cheers

Jean

I recommend remove the locomotive in the CS3 and put back locomotive on the track so it register automatic to store in the CS3.
Check the locomotives by edit locomotives and click on the configuration.
It start read.
Click on the checkbox to accept.
Click the edit off.
You may start to drive the locomotive.
The red dot must fully shine.

Not quite correct, it will not work as an mfx+ controller, but can be used to control the locos using standard motorola Protocol addresses.

Hello Ian,

I just received my new CS 3 workbook.

https://www.bahnundbuch....dokumentiert-lothar-seel

Unfortunately it is only in German available and over 700 pages thick. I started to read in it and perhaps I find a tip, which may help you. The book is much, much more detailed as the one from Märklin (of course it has so many pages) - nevertheless I always recommend Märklin's book and it is in English available.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/03092/

Best regards

Wolfgang

Indeed first of all, not all locos with mfx decoders from Märklin understand DCC, till today. See here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/29841/

scroll down and see the features.

E.g. the loco of the starter set 29841 understands only mfx (and of course MM). This always is documented in the manual

https://static.maerklin....f54f9daae11464357566.pdf

read page 4.

See the difference e.g. to the new Insider BR 65 39650 on page 6

https://static.maerklin....24a4c1a12b1542179773.pdf

There you also find the sequence of the used formats setted by Märklin: mfx - DCC - MM. At this page you also find the standard digital addresses set up by Märklin in the factory for all formats. There you see why the loco prefers DCC, if your controller does not react on mfx from the decoder. But it does not ignore MM. It only chooses DCC first. Of course by setting the adequate CVs you can alter the formats, sequences, etc.. How to do which changes you find the CVs at page 22 and 23 in the manual.

For DCC addresses you find a DCC calculator at Märklins website.

https://www.maerklin.de/...formationen/dcc-rechner/

Unfortunately only in German on the German website available.

I say it ignores the MM address when DCC or mfx is present on the track. You say it does not ignore MM, it just does not respond to MM in the presence of DCC. Thanks for the valuable clarification.

Maybe; but I thought we were debating Märklin decoders capable of MFX, DCC and MM.

Per.

Well as you wrote: DCC is ageless. That's I am thinking too. A decoder will be technically superseded and getting technically old, but as long as it is working satisfactionally, why not use it?

If you like DCC use DCC. You only have to be careful buying a Märklin loco with a decoder not understands DCC. Especially some start-up locos don't understand DCC still today.

Once I bought a Liliput BR 217 looking only at price and AC capability. At the moment it is my only non-Märklin loco with a non-Märklin decoder inside. But I was lucky, because the loco came with a LokPilot V3.0 from 2006. There it has no sound, first I wanted to change it against a sound decoder. But using this ESU LokPilot V3.0 for a while I have to confess, it is a good decoder and works fine at MM as well as with DCC. So I will not change the decoder. And yes, I think that in 2006 this decoder was much better as the offered Märklin ones at these days. But in 2018 I think Märklin is now competitive with its new mLD and mSD decoder series. Only at the variety of usable protocols, Märklin has room for improvements for people who like DCC.

I suspect the main reason is to make life difficult for competing CS mfrs. How ever it makes Marklin locos less attractive to those users, so perhaps not a great idea. I do applaud them for offering DCC in most new locos now.

Thanks TEEWolf
I have the software tool mDT3 aleady on my PC.. But what am i loading onto the USB stick?
The Maerklin book is at Ians house.

BTW Ian and I both speak German :-) ...

Thinking about it and looking at some of the instructions i am now thinking the best way is to connect a PC(mDecoderTool3) via LAN cable to the CS3 and have a loco on the programming track and update firmware and edit decoder settings that way..
Anyone done this before ??

Hi Jukka...

Did you try with Wireless or the LAN cable...?
What exact problems did you have ?

Nick

Wow classical Märklin answer, but honest. I received this answer as well 2 years ago for updating my MS 2. And indeed since the next CS 3 software update it is working perfectly. So we will wait. Very interseting too: next month next CS 3 update. Thanks Nick.

Hi Ian. I'm not sure if this problem is solved or not and what was the solution? I'm asking because I now have exactly the same problem with at least one of my mfx+ loco (VT11.5 Helvetica). After a few seconds I have no control anymore of the train, and other mfx+ trains but other trains/loco can be controlled without problems.
Thank you / Joakim