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Offline Nick_40034  
#1 Posted : 06 December 2018 09:37:02(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Hi All..

We have a CS3 with a variety of new and old locos DCC. But some are behaving strangely.
None of the Locos have had decoder updates? Could this be it??
To do decoder updates we would need the mDecoderTool3 ? from a PC directly into the CS3 by WLAN cable ???

Thanks in advance

Nick
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 06 December 2018 11:56:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 339
Location: Paris, France
Hi Nick

I don't use a CS3 but a CS2. Having quite a number of Märklin locos (100 of which 32 Sound MFX ones) I have never changed / updated any of them or felt the need for it.
What is your strange behaviour?

I have once a strange behaviour on my locos (lights blinking, strange sound, etc). This was caused by a close proximity of a PC Power supply to the CS2 Power supply (60101) which caused -by magnetic coupling between the two poser supplies- a "pollution" of the digital signal. To cure this I had to (a) put some distance between the two power supplies, (b) reboot the CS2 , (c) check some locos on the programming track as the distorted digital signal has affected their programming. You may have to reset some locos to the factory settings

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline siroljuk  
#3 Posted : 06 December 2018 12:16:59(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 304
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
We have a CS3 with a variety of new and old locos DCC. But some are behaving strangely.


Hello Nick.

You should tell us more about strange behavior also tell us is it CS3 or CS3Plus and which update version.
I would like to know also if you have terminal connected to your layout.
I had earlier broken terminal 60125 connected to my layout and it caused very strange behavior to whole layout and some of my locos.
That terminal was not so broken that it wouldn't work at all, I changed one component inside terminal to new one and no strange behavior any more.

Regards

Jukka

Offline Nick_40034  
#4 Posted : 06 December 2018 16:16:32(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
We have a CS3 with a variety of new and old locos DCC. But some are behaving strangely.


Hello Nick.

You should tell us more about strange behavior also tell us is it CS3 or CS3Plus and which update version.
I would like to know also if you have terminal connected to your layout.
I had earlier broken terminal 60125 connected to my layout and it caused very strange behavior to whole layout and some of my locos.
That terminal was not so broken that it wouldn't work at all, I changed one component inside terminal to new one and no strange behavior any more.

Regards

Jukka



Its a CS3 with V1.3.3
No Terminal connected.
The strange behaviour is only with 4 Locos.. MFXPlus locos
Offline Nick_40034  
#5 Posted : 06 December 2018 16:25:11(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
We have a CS3 with a variety of new and old locos DCC. But some are behaving strangely.


Hello Nick.

You should tell us more about strange behavior also tell us is it CS3 or CS3Plus and which update version.
I would like to know also if you have terminal connected to your layout.
I had earlier broken terminal 60125 connected to my layout and it caused very strange behavior to whole layout and some of my locos.
That terminal was not so broken that it wouldn't work at all, I changed one component inside terminal to new one and no strange behavior any more.

Regards

Jukka



Very useful info...
My friend will have to come back with the behaviour thing..

Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 06 December 2018 19:06:34(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,728
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post

Its a CS3 with V1.3.3
No Terminal connected.
The strange behaviour is only with 4 Locos.. MFXPlus locos


How many mfx+ locos do you have?

This sounds like the locos have run out of 'resources', i.e. 'sand', 'coal' and/or 'diesel'. This happens when run in mfx+ mode.

I am making an assumption here as you haven't said what the odd behaviour is.

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H0
Offline Nick_40034  
#7 Posted : 06 December 2018 21:58:06(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post

Its a CS3 with V1.3.3
No Terminal connected.
The strange behaviour is only with 4 Locos.. MFXPlus locos


How many mfx+ locos do you have?

This sounds like the locos have run out of 'resources', i.e. 'sand', 'coal' and/or 'diesel'. This happens when run in mfx+ mode.

I am making an assumption here as you haven't said what the odd behaviour is.



Only 4 Locos.. PMed you ..
Offline Nick_40034  
#8 Posted : 06 December 2018 22:12:04(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
We are having the main problems with
Article No. 37008 Class V 100.20 Diesel Locomotive
from a dealer called " Schmidt Wissen" in Germany

Does this help ????
Online H0  
#9 Posted : 06 December 2018 22:39:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
Does this help????
We don't know what the problem is, but we know which dealer sold it.
That surely helps a lot.

Those "old DCC locos" turn out to be "new mfx+ locos". So we are making some progress.

BTW: That dealer has a nice shop IRL. Worth a visit.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 06 December 2018 23:16:19(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,396
Location: Scotland
Does anybody know what the strange behaviour is. Might help to solve the problem.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Nick_40034  
#11 Posted : 06 December 2018 23:35:01(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
We are also having a problem with.. Maerklin 37835 BR50 steam loco

Can the decoders be changed if sent back to the shop?
Offline mbarreto  
#12 Posted : 07 December 2018 00:13:31(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 704
If you pay, for sure yes. If you don't, it depends.
It does seem you have somethings to test before you think about that...

H0 gauge. 90% Märklin, 10% Brawa. I tend to have several Crocs, S2/6, Cs /BR18.1, Ks /BR59, BR96s and BR45s. I like Pacifics. BR50 with cabin tender is also a favorite. The smaller ones I like the most are BR94 and BR95.


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Offline Ian Oliver  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2018 00:24:39(UTC)
Ian Oliver

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire.
Gents,

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions on this topic. The problem is with 2 of my MFX+ locos: Maerklin 37008 (BR 50) and 37835 (V 100). They start off and any functions chosen ie pumps, whistles etc work as required. After a few seconds, the functions do not work and the loco cannot be slowed down, or the speed cannot be increased. To stop the loco, the large stop button has to be pressed. My other 2 MFX+ locos are at present without any problems and there are no problems with my 50 MFX locos. When the MFX+ locos are "running out of control", the MFX locos are working perfectly.
I have tried a factory reset and loco update on these 2 locos, but they still do not work properly.

The layout is mine, but my friend Nick (who started this discussion) is the technical expert, who is helping me out.

I have moved the power pack away from the CS3, so thanks for that suggestion.

Ian.

Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 07 December 2018 02:31:33(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Does anybody know what the strange behaviour is. Might help to solve the problem.


mfx+ instead of old DCCLaugh Do you know a new DCC?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 07 December 2018 04:26:22(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Gents,

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions on this topic. The problem is with 2 of my MFX+ locos: Maerklin 37008 (BR 50) and 37835 (V 100). They start off and any functions chosen ie pumps, whistles etc work as required. After a few seconds, the functions do not work and the loco cannot be slowed down, or the speed cannot be increased. To stop the loco, the large stop button has to be pressed. My other 2 MFX+ locos are at present without any problems and there are no problems with my 50 MFX locos. When the MFX+ locos are "running out of control", the MFX locos are working perfectly.
I have tried a factory reset and loco update on these 2 locos, but they still do not work properly.

The layout is mine, but my friend Nick (who started this discussion) is the technical expert, who is helping me out.

I have moved the power pack away from the CS3, so thanks for that suggestion.

Ian.



Hello Ian,

welcome to the forum.

Interesting that only 2 locos out of over 50 including other mfx and mfx+ locos show a misbehaviour! It only can be a problem at these 2 locos not at the CS 3. And probably it has to do with the mfx+ function. My assumption is that somewhere a configuration variable has changed. But which one?

What sounds very strange to me, you made a reset to the mfx+ loco and they still behave not like a mfx+ loco? For a few seconds they are working correctly before they change their behaviour?

Perhaps may you set them one after another on a separate programming track, also they are mfx+ locos? Test the behaviour for every single loco on a separate isolated track, even Märklin says it is not necessary, but yet I do it with my CS 3+ too. Because sometimes I get unexplainable results or effects as well. Please try one or more resets again. Delete the mfx loco from your loco list, so your CS 3 is completely "clean" from this loco. It does not matter, because as a mfx one it is re-registering again easily and please watch this registering, if there is any difference to another registering mfx loco identifiable.

Still not knowing yet all details, functions and internal connections of the very complex CS 3 system, I prevent any influence to and from my regular layout. Sometimes it works and I do not know why. Very often I realized, I had forgotten saving changes or I made changes by hitting the touch screen accidentally without realizing it deleting the changes before saving. Since I am very carefully and mainly use a mouse the results getting better.

At the moment myself I cannot identify any reason for this misbehaviour. Please proceed with your efforts watching at which step you are achieving which result. Keep in mind both locos also can have faulty decoders inside as well. Please, keep us updated with your results. Thanks.

Best regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Online H0  
#16 Posted : 07 December 2018 08:28:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
mfx+ instead of old DCCLaugh Do you know a new DCC?
An old DCC loco would be e.g. one with a LokPilot 1 while a new DCC loco would be one with a LokPiilot 4.

An analogue locos from the ’80s is old for me, but it is new for a collector of series 800 locos.

Precise information can help: knowing the ref. number, the production year, the undesired behaviour.

I like DCC. It suits my requirements much better than mfx. DCC is not old, DCC is ageless. But DCC decoders can be old. Locos with DCC decoders can be old.
Some people know how to quote correctly. And some people goof things up and quote snippets out of context and attribute them to the wrong persons. So sad.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline siroljuk  
#17 Posted : 07 December 2018 08:53:48(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 304
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
At the moment myself I cannot identify any reason for this misbehavior. Please proceed with your efforts watching at which step you are achieving which result. Keep in mind both locos also can have faulty decoders inside as well. Please, keep us updated with your results. Thanks.


Hello.
One thing you can do: Open the locos and run them without cover. Look carefully the motor if there is any kind of sparking check motor carefully put your finger on the decode area if it is possible after running,is it hot?

I have not mfx+ locos but all other kind of decoders i have which I have installed to old and very old Märklin locos and at the same time changed motors too.

Sometimes my change work is not so good quality and short circuits has been many times. Any kind of short circuit causes odd behavior.Sometimes faulty capacitor is the reason.

Sometimes I have seen also poor soldering which have caused problems even in new devices ( not in Märklin products thoughGlare ).

Hope you can find reason soon and tell us what was the main reason

Regards

Jukka
Offline Nick_40034  
#18 Posted : 07 December 2018 09:10:40(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
mfx+ instead of old DCCLaugh Do you know a new DCC?
An old DCC loco would be e.g. one with a LokPilot 1 while a new DCC loco would be one with a LokPiilot 4.

An analogue locos from the ’80s is old for me, but it is new for a collector of series 800 locos.

Precise information can help: knowing the ref. number, the production year, the undesired behaviour.

I like DCC. It suits my requirements much better than mfx. DCC is not old, DCC is ageless. But DCC decoders can be old. Locos with DCC decoders can be old.
Some people know how to quote correctly. And some people goof things up and quote snippets out of context and attribute them to the wrong persons. So sad.


Well said.. I am also a DCC ESU fan (British rail 70-80s to be exact) Ecos 50200 :-) ..
I am supporting Ian on this as a friend and i like a technical challenge .. Lets hope we can find a resolution. More suggestions are welcome..

Offline Nick_40034  
#19 Posted : 07 December 2018 09:16:57(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
At the moment myself I cannot identify any reason for this misbehavior. Please proceed with your efforts watching at which step you are achieving which result. Keep in mind both locos also can have faulty decoders inside as well. Please, keep us updated with your results. Thanks.


Hello.
One thing you can do: Open the locos and run them without cover. Look carefully the motor if there is any kind of sparking check motor carefully put your finger on the decode area if it is possible after running,is it hot?

I have not mfx+ locos but all other kind of decoders i have which I have installed to old and very old Märklin locos and at the same time changed motors too.

Sometimes my change work is not so good quality and short circuits has been many times. Any kind of short circuit causes odd behavior.Sometimes faulty capacitor is the reason.

Sometimes I have seen also poor soldering which have caused problems even in new devices ( not in Märklin products thoughGlare ).

Hope you can find reason soon and tell us what was the main reason

Regards

Jukka


Thats an interesting answer... Not sure it applies to modern DCC locos behaving in this way. maybe good advice for DC.. as it seems to be a decoder issue in our case..
But Hey then i could be wrong :-) and don't mind to be corrected :-)

Offline Ian Oliver  
#20 Posted : 07 December 2018 10:46:33(UTC)
Ian Oliver

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire.
Thank you for all of your comments and suggestions. TEEWolf, I shall try out some of your ideas.

Regards, Ian.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#21 Posted : 07 December 2018 12:02:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 339
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Gents,

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions on this topic. The problem is with 2 of my MFX+ locos: Maerklin 37008 (BR 50) and 37835 (V 100). They start off and any functions chosen ie pumps, whistles etc work as required. After a few seconds, the functions do not work and the loco cannot be slowed down, or the speed cannot be increased. To stop the loco, the large stop button has to be pressed. My other 2 MFX+ locos are at present without any problems and there are no problems with my 50 MFX locos. When the MFX+ locos are "running out of control", the MFX locos are working perfectly.
I have tried a factory reset and loco update on these 2 locos, but they still do not work properly.

The layout is mine, but my friend Nick (who started this discussion) is the technical expert, who is helping me out.

I have moved the power pack away from the CS3, so thanks for that suggestion.

Ian.



Hi Ian

This is exactly what I had when the power supply 60101 on my CS2 was close to another power supply (100W PC Power supply). Some of the locos were bahaving as if receiving contradictory orders (Light on , off, start, stop). In my case I had first to solve the issue at the 60061 or 60101 level and then do a factory reset (may be twice). Temporarily I used another digital system (my old CS1) to force the loco to re-register.

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline Ian Oliver  
#22 Posted : 07 December 2018 12:51:45(UTC)
Ian Oliver

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire.
Thanks for that Jean,

I shall get out my old Uhlenbrock Intellibox this afternoon and run the two "culprits" for half an hour.

Cheers,

Ian.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#23 Posted : 07 December 2018 20:52:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 339
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ian

Is the Uhlenbrock Intellibox MFX-capable?. You may have to re-register your locos with another Central unit.
Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline Donb  
#24 Posted : 08 December 2018 06:44:36(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Nick

I don't use a CS3 but a CS2. Having quite a number of Märklin locos (100 of which 32 Sound MFX ones) I have never changed / updated any of them or felt the need for it.
What is your strange behaviour?

I have once a strange behaviour on my locos (lights blinking, strange sound, etc). This was caused by a close proximity of a PC Power supply to the CS2 Power supply (60101) which caused -by magnetic coupling between the two poser supplies- a "pollution" of the digital signal. To cure this I had to (a) put some distance between the two power supplies, (b) reboot the CS2 , (c) check some locos on the programming track as the distorted digital signal has affected their programming. You may have to reset some locos to the factory settings

Cheers

Jean


This is fascinating! I too had a problem with misbehaving Mfx locos untill I separated the power supplies about a meter apart. No more malfunctions. Hooray! In my case it was all of my mfx locos misbehaving at random, and none of my DCC locos. I had begun to replace the decodrs in some of my 'mfx only' locos because of this. I was blaming my command station.
many thanks for this post!!

Cheers!
Best Regards,
Don
______________________________________________________________________________________
C track , collecting SBB, DB and SJ
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Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 08 December 2018 08:36:18(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,693
I recommend remove the locomotive in the CS3 and put back locomotive on the track so it register automatic to store in the CS3.
Check the locomotives by edit locomotives and click on the configuration.
It start read.
Click on the checkbox to accept.
Click the edit off.
You may start to drive the locomotive.
The red dot must fully shine.
DCC means Digital Command Control.
Tillig Elite code 83 two rail


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Offline Ian Oliver  
#26 Posted : 08 December 2018 22:19:25(UTC)
Ian Oliver

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire.
Hello Jean and Goofy,

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. The Uhlenbrock Intellibox is over 12 years old and has always done a good job, but as you have made me realise Jean, it is not compatable with the latest MFX+ decoders, so cannot be used to resolve this problem. Goofy, I deleted all of my MFX and MFX+ locos from the CS3 and have initially re-registered the 2 problem MFX+ locos (BR50 and V100). They were run for half an hour and both worked perfectly ie when required, started, stopped, pumps, horns etc etc came on when required. I have now started re-instating my MFX locos ie some BR042s. They are being run with the 2 MFX+ locos and are all running properly. Will carry on adding new locos and see how things go and let you know the outcome.

Thanks again for your support,

Ian.



Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 08 December 2018 22:40:33(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,728
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jean and Goofy,

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. The Uhlenbrock Intellibox is over 12 years old and has always done a good job, but as you have made me realise Jean, it is not compatable with the latest MFX+ decoders, so cannot be used to resolve this problem.


Not quite correct, it will not work as an mfx+ controller, but can be used to control the locos using standard motorola Protocol addresses.

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Online H0  
#28 Posted : 09 December 2018 08:34:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jean and Goofy,

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. The Uhlenbrock Intellibox is over 12 years old and has always done a good job, but as you have made me realise Jean, it is not compatable with the latest MFX+ decoders, so cannot be used to resolve this problem.


Not quite correct, it will not work as an mfx+ controller, but can be used to control the locos using standard motorola Protocol addresses.
Ot DCC addresses for recent Märklin decoders with mfx(+) and DCC.

Those Märklin decoders with DCC will ignore the MM address if they detect DCC on the track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline TEEWolf  
#29 Posted : 09 December 2018 20:22:37(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for all of your comments and suggestions. TEEWolf, I shall try out some of your ideas.

Regards, Ian.


Hello Ian,

I just received my new CS 3 workbook.

https://www.bahnundbuch....dokumentiert-lothar-seel

Unfortunately it is only in German available and over 700 pages thick. I started to read in it and perhaps I find a tip, which may help you. The book is much, much more detailed as the one from Märklin (of course it has so many pages) - nevertheless I always recommend Märklin's book and it is in English available.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/03092/

Best regards

Wolfgang
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Ian Oliver  
#30 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:02:25(UTC)
Ian Oliver

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire.
Dear Wolfgang,

Thank you for the information. I did in fact purchase the Maerklin 03092 book (English version) from Modellbahn Lippe and it is very informative. It was very good for setting up the system, but is not really a book for major problem solving. My friend Nick and I have spent a lot of time in my train room and are making much progress.

We have had some good advice from this forum (Jean suggesting we keep the CS3 as far apart as possible from the power pack) and we have soldered the wires of the programming track and normal track to the bottom of my C track, so they cannot move. Have also have emptied the CS3 of all the locos and starting with the 2 problem MFX+ locos (BR50 and V100) have gradually added MFX locos and so far so good!! Have 12 locos registered and every thing is working perfectly.

I shall spend the next few days adding the rest and hopefully everything will be working properly again and I shall, of course, let you know.

Best Regards,

Ian.
Offline TEEWolf  
#31 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:41:04(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ian Oliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jean and Goofy,

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. The Uhlenbrock Intellibox is over 12 years old and has always done a good job, but as you have made me realise Jean, it is not compatable with the latest MFX+ decoders, so cannot be used to resolve this problem.


Not quite correct, it will not work as an mfx+ controller, but can be used to control the locos using standard motorola Protocol addresses.
Ot DCC addresses for recent Märklin decoders with mfx(+) and DCC.

Those Märklin decoders with DCC will ignore the MM address if they detect DCC on the track.


Indeed first of all, not all locos with mfx decoders from Märklin understand DCC, till today. See here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/29841/

scroll down and see the features.

E.g. the loco of the starter set 29841 understands only mfx (and of course MM). This always is documented in the manual

https://static.maerklin....f54f9daae11464357566.pdf

read page 4.

See the difference e.g. to the new Insider BR 65 39650 on page 6

https://static.maerklin....24a4c1a12b1542179773.pdf

There you also find the sequence of the used formats setted by Märklin: mfx - DCC - MM. At this page you also find the standard digital addresses set up by Märklin in the factory for all formats. There you see why the loco prefers DCC, if your controller does not react on mfx from the decoder. But it does not ignore MM. It only chooses DCC first. Of course by setting the adequate CVs you can alter the formats, sequences, etc.. How to do which changes you find the CVs at page 22 and 23 in the manual.

For DCC addresses you find a DCC calculator at Märklins website.

https://www.maerklin.de/...formationen/dcc-rechner/

Unfortunately only in German on the German website available.



CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Purellum  
#32 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:52:08(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,743
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Indeed first of all, not all locos with mfx decoders from Märklin understand DCC, till today.


I'm sorry; but nobody said that all MFX decoders understand DCC.

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
At this page you also find the standard digital addresses set up by Märklin in the factory for all formats. There you see why the loco prefers DCC, if your controller does not react on mfx from the decoder. But it does not ignore MM. It only chooses DCC first.


The decoder must ignore MM if it sees DCC on the track, as H0 correctly wrote. It can't be controlled by 2 protocols at the same time.

Per.

Cool





If you can dream it, you can do it!

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Online H0  
#33 Posted : 09 December 2018 22:03:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
But it does not ignore MM. It only chooses DCC first.
I say it ignores the MM address when DCC or mfx is present on the track. You say it does not ignore MM, it just does not respond to MM in the presence of DCC. Thanks for the valuable clarification.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online H0  
#34 Posted : 09 December 2018 22:06:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
It can't be controlled by 2 protocols at the same time.
ESU decoders can. This sometimes leads to strange behaviour.
ESU's solution of supporting both MM and DCC at the same time is bad.
But IMHO Märklin's approach with different priorities for DCC and MM is worse.

Life would be easier if such details would be standardised, one way or the other.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Purellum  
#35 Posted : 09 December 2018 22:54:46(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,743
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
It can't be controlled by 2 protocols at the same time.
ESU decoders can.


Maybe; but I thought we were debating Märklin decoders capable of MFX, DCC and MM.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline TEEWolf  
#36 Posted : 09 December 2018 23:13:42(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


I'm sorry; but nobody said that all MFX decoders understand DCC.


No doubt about it, that you know it. But how many else does know it?

Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post

The decoder must ignore MM if it sees DCC on the track, as H0 correctly wrote. It can't be controlled by 2 protocols at the same time.


Not necessarily - as I wrote in another post, you can alter it.

And why shall these formats work parallel? They are working serially, one after another.

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#37 Posted : 10 December 2018 02:51:00(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
mfx+ instead of old DCCLaugh Do you know a new DCC?
An old DCC loco would be e.g. one with a LokPilot 1 while a new DCC loco would be one with a LokPilot 4.

An analogue locos from the ’80s is old for me, but it is new for a collector of series 800 locos.

Precise information can help: knowing the ref. number, the production year, the undesired behaviour.

I like DCC. It suits my requirements much better than mfx. DCC is not old, DCC is ageless. But DCC decoders can be old. Locos with DCC decoders can be old.
Some people know how to quote correctly. And some people goof things up and quote snippets out of context and attribute them to the wrong persons. So sad.


Well as you wrote: DCC is ageless. That's I am thinking too. A decoder will be technically superseded and getting technically old, but as long as it is working satisfactionally, why not use it?

If you like DCC use DCC. You only have to be careful buying a Märklin loco with a decoder not understands DCC. Especially some start-up locos don't understand DCC still today.

Once I bought a Liliput BR 217 looking only at price and AC capability. At the moment it is my only non-Märklin loco with a non-Märklin decoder inside. But I was lucky, because the loco came with a LokPilot V3.0 from 2006. There it has no sound, first I wanted to change it against a sound decoder. But using this ESU LokPilot V3.0 for a while I have to confess, it is a good decoder and works fine at MM as well as with DCC. So I will not change the decoder. And yes, I think that in 2006 this decoder was much better as the offered Märklin ones at these days. But in 2018 I think Märklin is now competitive with its new mLD and mSD decoder series. Only at the variety of usable protocols, Märklin has room for improvements for people who like DCC.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Online H0  
#38 Posted : 10 December 2018 07:34:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,201
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Not necessarily - as I wrote in another post, you can alter it.
AFAIK you cannot alter this for some decoders.
Märklin decoders come in too many flavours and this makes the situation very complicated. With every new Märklin loco you have to test what it can do and what can be adjusted.

Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Maybe; but I thought we were debating Märklin decoders capable of MFX, DCC and MM.
Yes. And those decoders must do what the firmware tells them to do.
Märklin could skip the priority model for protocols one day and follow ESUs sample.
There is no technical "must do" for the current mode.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Donb  
#39 Posted : 11 December 2018 00:56:38(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Märklin decoders come in too many flavours and this makes the situation very complicated. e.


I suspect the main reason is to make life difficult for competing CS mfrs. How ever it makes Marklin locos less attractive to those users, so perhaps not a great idea. I do applaud them for offering DCC in most new locos now.
Best Regards,
Don
______________________________________________________________________________________
C track , collecting SBB, DB and SJ
Offline TEEWolf  
#40 Posted : 12 December 2018 20:35:15(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
...
To do decoder updates we would need the mDecoderTool3 ? from a PC directly into the CS3 by WLAN cable ???

Thanks in advance

Nick


Hello Nick and Ian,

in post #30 Ian wrote you got the Märklin digital book. Very good. On page 111 above in the extra box and on page 115 (English and German version shall be equal) under the heading "safeing projects" Märklin writes you do not need the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP - art #60971)

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60971/

to update the decoder in a loco. You have the choice doing it with the mDP or directly by your CS 2/3.

Forget the Sound Programmer art #60801 (NOT #60891 - this is a print error)

https://static.maerklin....a55291555c1434542193.pdf

This one is superseded by the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP #60971). But what you need in any case is the software for your computer. This is the Märklin Decoder Tool (mDT - now mDT3) And this software tool you get for free. The installation and usage is described in the Märklin book from page 112 onwards. Be aware to seperate between the hardware stick mDP and the software tool mDT3.

The software you download here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...3msd3/mdecodertool-mdt3/

click in the little grey circle and a red tickmark comes up and below three menues appears for downloading the software, changelog and a manual (as a PDF file) for the mDT3.

Similar for downloading the zip-file for the sound library.

https://www.maerklin.de/...undbibliothek-fuer-msd3/

The really bad thing is, all this is only available in German language. Even you must use the German website from Märklin to come to the software and sound library download links.

The transfer between the computer and CS without a mDP stick is done by an USB stick. See on page 115 of Märklin digital book. They also mention the data from a calibrating drive for the decoder of a loco cannot be transfered.

As a result the best woud be to use the mDP and the mDT3. But please read first, if you have the correct decoders for these tools too. These tools are not generally usable for all Märklin decoders. Only the ones as described in its manuals.

If you need further help, please let me know.

Best regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Nick_40034  
#41 Posted : 13 December 2018 09:26:49(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
...
To do decoder updates we would need the mDecoderTool3 ? from a PC directly into the CS3 by WLAN cable ???

Thanks in advance

Nick


Hello Nick and Ian,

in post #30 Ian wrote you got the Märklin digital book. Very good. On page 111 above in the extra box and on page 115 (English and German version shall be equal) under the heading "safeing projects" Märklin writes you do not need the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP - art #60971)

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60971/

to update the decoder in a loco. You have the choice doing it with the mDP or directly by your CS 2/3.

Forget the Sound Programmer art #60801 (NOT #60891 - this is a print error)

https://static.maerklin....a55291555c1434542193.pdf

This one is superseded by the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP #60971). But what you need in any case is the software for your computer. This is the Märklin Decoder Tool (mDT - now mDT3) And this software tool you get for free. The installation and usage is described in the Märklin book from page 112 onwards. Be aware to seperate between the hardware stick mDP and the software tool mDT3.

The software you download here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...3msd3/mdecodertool-mdt3/

click in the little grey circle and a red tickmark comes up and below three menues appears for downloading the software, changelog and a manual (as a PDF file) for the mDT3.

Similar for downloading the zip-file for the sound library.

https://www.maerklin.de/...undbibliothek-fuer-msd3/

The really bad thing is, all this is only available in German language. Even you must use the German website from Märklin to come to the software and sound library download links.

The transfer between the computer and CS without a mDP stick is done by an USB stick. See on page 115 of Märklin digital book. They also mention the data from a calibrating drive for the decoder of a loco cannot be transfered.

As a result the best woud be to use the mDP and the mDT3. But please read first, if you have the correct decoders for these tools too. These tools are not generally usable for all Märklin decoders. Only the ones as described in its manuals.

If you need further help, please let me know.

Best regards

TEEWolf


Thanks TEEWolf
I have the software tool mDT3 aleady on my PC.. But what am i loading onto the USB stick?
The Maerklin book is at Ians house.

BTW Ian and I both speak German :-) ...


Offline TEEWolf  
#42 Posted : 14 December 2018 04:31:23(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
...
To do decoder updates we would need the mDecoderTool3 ? from a PC directly into the CS3 by WLAN cable ???

Thanks in advance

Nick


Hello Nick and Ian,

in post #30 Ian wrote you got the Märklin digital book. Very good. On page 111 above in the extra box and on page 115 (English and German version shall be equal) under the heading "safeing projects" Märklin writes you do not need the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP - art #60971)

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60971/

to update the decoder in a loco. You have the choice doing it with the mDP or directly by your CS 2/3.

Forget the Sound Programmer art #60801 (NOT #60891 - this is a print error)

https://static.maerklin....a55291555c1434542193.pdf

This one is superseded by the Märklin Decoder Programmer (mDP #60971). But what you need in any case is the software for your computer. This is the Märklin Decoder Tool (mDT - now mDT3) And this software tool you get for free. The installation and usage is described in the Märklin book from page 112 onwards. Be aware to seperate between the hardware stick mDP and the software tool mDT3.

The software you download here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...3msd3/mdecodertool-mdt3/

click in the little grey circle and a red tickmark comes up and below three menues appears for downloading the software, changelog and a manual (as a PDF file) for the mDT3.

Similar for downloading the zip-file for the sound library.

https://www.maerklin.de/...undbibliothek-fuer-msd3/

The really bad thing is, all this is only available in German language. Even you must use the German website from Märklin to come to the software and sound library download links.

The transfer between the computer and CS without a mDP stick is done by an USB stick. See on page 115 of Märklin digital book. They also mention the data from a calibrating drive for the decoder of a loco cannot be transfered.

As a result the best woud be to use the mDP and the mDT3. But please read first, if you have the correct decoders for these tools too. These tools are not generally usable for all Märklin decoders. Only the ones as described in its manuals.

If you need further help, please let me know.

Best regards

TEEWolf


Thanks TEEWolf
I have the software tool mDT3 aleady on my PC.. But what am i loading onto the USB stick?
The Maerklin book is at Ians house.

BTW Ian and I both speak German :-) ...



I never used the USB-stick for a transfer. I got a mDP, but somewhere I think I read about programming and transfer of the data for decoders, how to do it. If you speak German, perhaps in one of the download articles in the MM, which you still can download here, you will find more about it. See first in the articles about the Decoder-ABC.

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

But it cannot be very complicated, saving a project to an USB-stick and then load this project from the stick into the CS.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Nick_40034  
#43 Posted : 14 December 2018 09:41:25(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


I never used the USB-stick for a transfer. I got a mDP, but somewhere I think I read about programming and transfer of the data for decoders, how to do it. If you speak German, perhaps in one of the download articles in the MM, which you still can download here, you will find more about it. See first in the articles about the Decoder-ABC.

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

But it cannot be very complicated, saving a project to an USB-stick and then load this project from the stick into the CS.


Thinking about it and looking at some of the instructions i am now thinking the best way is to connect a PC(mDecoderTool3) via LAN cable to the CS3 and have a loco on the programming track and update firmware and edit decoder settings that way..
Anyone done this before ??
Offline siroljuk  
#44 Posted : 14 December 2018 13:26:49(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 304
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
Thinking about it and looking at some of the instructions i am now thinking the best way is to connect a PC(mDecoderTool3) via LAN cable to the CS3 and have a loco on the programming track and update firmware and edit decoder settings that way..
Anyone done this before ??


Hi Nick. I have tried to connect toCS3Plus using mDecoderTool3, but not succeeded at all.
When I used 60971 programmer device with mDecoderTool3 and with CS2 then I could connect to CS2 but after I changed to CS3Plus connection between software in my PC and CS3Plus don't work.

I really hope if you find some way to this connection please write about your experiments to this forumBigGrin BigGrin

Regards
Jukka
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by siroljuk
Offline Nick_40034  
#45 Posted : 14 December 2018 15:32:23(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post


Hi Nick. I have tried to connect to CS3Plus using mDecoderTool3, but not succeeded at all.

Hi Jukka...

Did you try with Wireless or the LAN cable...?
What exact problems did you have ?

Nick
Offline Nick_40034  
#46 Posted : 14 December 2018 15:53:02(UTC)
Nick_40034

United Kingdom   
Joined: 06/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: England, Maidenhead
I just talked to marklin Tech support .
you can connect a PC with Decoder tool3 software to the CS2 via LAN cable and Program Locos on the Program track..
YOU CANNOT ( yet but they are working on this and might be in the next update in January) connect a PC with Decoder tool3 software to the CS3 via LAN cable and Program Locos on the Program track..
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Nick_40034
Offline TEEWolf  
#47 Posted : 14 December 2018 19:48:39(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Nick_40034 Go to Quoted Post
I just talked to marklin Tech support .
you can connect a PC with Decoder tool3 software to the CS2 via LAN cable and Program Locos on the Program track..
YOU CANNOT ( yet but they are working on this and might be in the next update in January) connect a PC with Decoder tool3 software to the CS3 via LAN cable and Program Locos on the Program track..


Wow classical Märklin answer, but honest. I received this answer as well 2 years ago for updating my MS 2. And indeed since the next CS 3 software update it is working perfectly. So we will wait. Very interseting too: next month next CS 3 update. Thanks Nick.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#48 Posted : 14 December 2018 20:14:49(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
@Nick + @Ian
what happened with your "stubborn" 2 mfx locos? I just received from a Märklin dealer the news, the Märklin Decoder-Tester (art #60970) is available. Cost 72 €. Perhaps plenty of money just to get the information that it may not be usable for the own decoder?BigGrin Try to read more about the tester and/or somebody here at MUN knows more about this tester already.

For myself it looks like these 2 decoders have a problem - but which one? Software - hardware? Strange they are working as long as they are cool. Getting warm then they stopps? This is my impression, is this correct?

Regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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