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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2018 23:33:11(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Just a little banter for a slow Tuesday........feels like I've been railroaded!!Tongue

With bug-eyed Woot eyes from looking through a eye loupe all day at the design for,

Hamburg- Layout with two faces in the Marklin Book by KLAUS ECKERT THE TRACK PLAN BOOK For HO layouts over 3 m /10 feet long.

I can officially say that this book is obviously the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

An “elephant in the room” means Marklin knows about something in particular but no-one is talking about it because it might be embarrassing or conflictious.

“Oh look the plans for C track don't line up so hush little one................"OhMyGod

Now for the brighter side of lifeBigGrin

I'm almost done with my new plan and as Mr. Winston Churchill once said:

"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."

Marklin C track I do not fear because, “For me success will be a carbide tipped circular saw blade!”Laugh
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 21 November 2018 10:42:21(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,631
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi John
In my first C layout I had to cut two pieces just to to fit a platform loop.
My second layout is complete without any cuts.
It apparently can happen - :-)
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline MrB32  
#3 Posted : 21 November 2018 13:22:00(UTC)
MrB32

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 209
Location: England,West Molesey
I came across such issues on countless occasions with C and M track.
After a few surprises, I got in to the habit of checking ahead of time by transferring the paper plan to track planning software. The tolerances used in books are less precise than in the software packages, or authors omit to mention cuts they made here and there. Problems quickly become apparent using the software, so I have a chance to plan adjustments before building the real thing.
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 21 November 2018 13:25:29(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,077
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
When you see a track plan in a publication it's probably a good idea to try it yourself using track planning software to make sure all the bits fit. Using the software you can adjust problem areas before you've bought, or even worse, laid the offending tracks!

Some track plans have been converted from another type of track and the equivalents in C-track may not be quite the same. I've seen lots of plans that have been converted from M-track to C-track, and there are quite a few differences in geometry between those types.

Edit:- Just seen that we both posted more or less the same at the same time!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline rbw993  
#5 Posted : 21 November 2018 15:44:42(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 462
I find that most of the time the problem is the omission of required 24071's for the slim C turnouts. Also applies to 24315's left out on recent plans that use the wide C curved turnouts.
Offline mbarreto  
#6 Posted : 21 November 2018 16:12:10(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 704
Maybe the diagrams were produced in China LOL
H0 gauge. 90% Märklin, 10% Brawa. I tend to have several Crocs, S2/6, Cs /BR18.1, Ks /BR59, BR96s and BR45s. I like Pacifics. BR50 with cabin tender is also a favorite. The smaller ones I like the most are BR94 and BR95.


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Offline michelvr  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2018 18:10:34(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
I have good news! Woot

From having five areas of misaligned track I have been able to decrease the numbers to two by replacing a variety of track with a mixture of shorter pieces using 24064's, 24077's, 24094's. I replaced the 24064's that were used instead of the 24071's at the slim turnouts. I'll post my plan later this afternoon. Not complete by getting there!!
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Offline Minok  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2018 20:19:40(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,639
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post

An “elephant in the room” means Marklin knows about something in particular but no-one is talking about it because it might be embarrassing or conflictious.


I think to qualify as an elephant in the room, the elephant has to be visible to everyone in the room.

I don't see the elephant, because he's not there. I don't have that book nor do I see a photo of the offending track plan.
Its maybe an invisible elephant? Flapper

Or the 'room' isnt' the readers of this thread, but the set of people who have the book in question.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline michelvr  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2018 20:37:57(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post

An “elephant in the room” means Marklin knows about something in particular but no-one is talking about it because it might be embarrassing or conflictious.


I think to qualify as an elephant in the room, the elephant has to be visible to everyone in the room.

I don't see the elephant, because he's not there. I don't have that book nor do I see a photo of the offending track plan.
Its maybe an invisible elephant? Flapper

Or the 'room' isnt' the readers of this thread, but the set of people who have the book in question.


Lucky you for not having the book! It's a white elephant!

I've had the book from the beginning of my Marklin days.....2012. It's out of printBlink

I did notice errors on some plans earlier. I did not realizing how they would impact my plan.Cursing

But now that my plan is almost complete (and corrected) I'll throw some peanuts to that elephant!Flapper
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2018 22:04:11(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,066
Location: New Zealand
I've just completed changing the M track part of my layout over to C track (because of reliability issues).

I've managed to get everything lined up OK with what was there previously.

One thing I found really useful was the table of track pieces needed to make up a specific length. I was able to measure the length of track needed and then used the table to determine the pieces needed. This enabled me to line everything up with the track that wasn't being replaced - the C track extension I did a few years ago, and the main bridge section which remains M track due to the bridges being designed for use with M (and K) track, but not C track.

Table is attached.

cgleis.pdf (56kb) downloaded 60 time(s).

BTW, I have the track plan book referred to. There are some great plans in it, I don't think it is a white elephant. Having said that, that doesn't preclude that there might be some issues being constructing a layout from the plans. I designed my layout C Track extension with Wintrack, but when I came to build it not everything matched up even though the plan said it should. That's why it is always handy to have a selection of short pieces and curves on hand, just in case.
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Offline mbarreto  
#11 Posted : 21 November 2018 23:40:33(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post


....
BTW, I have the track plan book referred to. There are some great plans in it, I don't think it is a white elephant. Having said that, that doesn't preclude that there might be some issues being constructing a layout from the plans. I designed my layout C Track extension with Wintrack, but when I came to build it not everything matched up even though the plan said it should. That's why it is always handy to have a selection of short pieces and curves on hand, just in case.


I also have that track plan book and I think the ideas in the book are great. Some track plans may not be accurate and that's a pitty, but the book as a track planning book seems very good, only exception seems to be those small unmatches of the track. They can be easily corrected in a new edition of the book, or maybe Märklin will produce a new book on the subject with completely new tooling; sorry: completely new text and layouts:)

Miguel


H0 gauge. 90% Märklin, 10% Brawa. I tend to have several Crocs, S2/6, Cs /BR18.1, Ks /BR59, BR96s and BR45s. I like Pacifics. BR50 with cabin tender is also a favorite. The smaller ones I like the most are BR94 and BR95.


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Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 22 November 2018 01:57:30(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Hello Bigdaddynz and Miguel,

Thanks for the cgleis PDF.

I agree the book has great ideas and beautifully done illustrations.

I've been studying it on and off for the last five years. I only wished that is was accurate in the track drawings.

Once I start to assemble the C track on the layout I’ll find out how accurate Anyrail is.
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Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 22 November 2018 02:48:54(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Bigdaddynz and Miguel,

Thanks for the cgleis PDF.

I agree the book has great ideas and beautifully done illustrations.

I've been studying it on and off for the last five years. I only wished that is was accurate in the track drawings.

Once I start to assemble the C track on the layout I’ll find out how accurate Anyrail is.


Well, I only know something about an elephant in the china store. Laugh But he had left 2 Märklin brochures - do you kow them too?

https://www.maerklin.de/...C3%A4nzungspackungen.pdf

http://www.ccbrailroad.c...nuales/marklin_via_c.pdf

Blink Smile

P.S.: What is Anyrail?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline michelvr  
#14 Posted : 22 November 2018 03:06:11(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Hello TEEWolf,

Yes I knew about those brochures.

Anyrail is a windows program for track planning and I’ve been using this software for my track plan.

https://www.anyrail.com/en
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Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 22 November 2018 03:24:18(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello TEEWolf,

Yes I knew about those brochures.

Anyrail is a windows program for track planning and I’ve been using this software for my track plan.

https://www.anyrail.com/en


Hello Michel,

thanks for the link. I bought and try to use WinTrack.

https://www.wintrack.de/

At the time I struggle with version 14. But please do not laugh: I tried to redo my layout with WinTrack, which I had fiddled together before by hand. WinTrack tells me: it does not work! But my trains are running over the layout. Scared You see, I am not very familiar with WinTrack yet - learning by doing.RollEyes

Regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline sjbartels  
#16 Posted : 22 November 2018 05:33:03(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 833
The Marklin magazine layouts aren't any better, they had a 24130 connecting to a 24772 wide turn out - obviously thats not going to work without removable sections.

That being said, someone will say (justifiably) you can cut the 130, BUT when you present a layout plan, it should be offered in a way where it works, where you don't need a saw to modify track.

Not defending the book, but it's not the only source of poor/incorrect information either, some sources are even closer to home, so to speak
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline Legless  
#17 Posted : 22 November 2018 06:28:20(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 683
Location: Leopold, Victoria
My orange friend says this is all fake news😁
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Offline michelvr  
#18 Posted : 22 November 2018 15:11:25(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: Legless Go to Quoted Post
My orange friend says this is all fake news😁


Your orange friend just flew the coop because he knows the truth!

As for you my friend, you do not have any legs to stand on! Where’s the evidence to support or justification for your argument of fake news? Seems to me you're just bumming around causing trouble! Flapper
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Offline David Dewar  
#19 Posted : 22 November 2018 15:32:17(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,396
Location: Scotland
Never use track plans. I like to design my own layout then fit C track into what is the appox design I want. Ideas come from books which are used to give me something I may not have thought of but that is all. I think half the fun is making your own layout which I think many do on here.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Legless  
#20 Posted : 23 November 2018 00:46:46(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 683
Location: Leopold, Victoria
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Never use track plans. I like to design my own layout then fit C track into what is the appox design I want. Ideas come from books which are used to give me something I may not have thought of but that is all. I think half the fun is making your own layout which I think many do on here.


Totally agree with you David. I to looked through lots of planning books for ideas, not for complete layouts and yes I’ll have a hiccup or two when I finally start to build my layout.
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#21 Posted : 23 November 2018 01:59:08(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 360
Happens all the time. Some of the Märklin Magazine track plans have inclines that are way to steep for some trains, just to fit the often small space they take up. Okay for some, others might find it unrealistic.

The TRIX track plan book even have track pieces that do not exist. I guess they were planned, but eventually never produced. That is a bit annoying.

I also find that mostly it comes down to forgetting the 071 pieces at the slim turnouts. So check for that if you go debug the track plan.
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Offline orionstars  
#22 Posted : 01 December 2018 01:46:03(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tosa
As for the “elephant” I do hope to find a copy of this someday. It currently remains invisible to me!

I too have used most of my planning books for ideas and inspiration, sometimes I just used a portion to fill in a dead space on an old layout.

While I know planning books are sorta “universal” (meaning I can use any idea from any book and translate it to my current project etc) I do often find myself searching for Marklin-specific plans.
Offline michelvr  
#23 Posted : 01 December 2018 02:06:18(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post
As for the “elephant” I do hope to find a copy of this someday. It currently remains invisible to me!

I too have used most of my planning books for ideas and inspiration, sometimes I just used a portion to fill in a dead space on an old layout.

While I know planning books are sorta “universal” (meaning I can use any idea from any book and translate it to my current project etc) I do often find myself searching for Marklin-specific plans.


Hello Orionstars,

If in my travels I find one I’ll buy it for you and let you know I have it!

Because I'm one of those modellers that sometimes when I travel and find rare items I think to myself, “ Hey self you should buy both or more of them because it's hard to find and rare!” In this case when I bought the book there were two copies and I bought one actually knowing that I should have bought both!!!! Next time I’ll know better!

Regards,

Michel
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Offline orionstars  
#24 Posted : 01 December 2018 20:07:07(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tosa
Michel- isn't too Hat always the way it goes. See two buy two. Own two forever.

See two buy one someone asks "where'd you find it I'd love one!"

As for the mismatch track arrangements etc. It was not realized as much back when but Now people know the old Atlas and other earlier track plan books (like some from Kalmbach) also had impossible to make arrangements.

Sometimes a saw would make it possible. Other times it was just dreaming (without a caveat that said "there is no possible way to make this unless you hand lay every tie and custom bend every curve").
Offline michelvr  
#25 Posted : 01 December 2018 21:11:20(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post
Michel- isn't too Hat always the way it goes. See two buy two. Own two forever.

See two buy one someone asks "where'd you find it I'd love one!"

As for the mismatch track arrangements etc. It was not realized as much back when but Now people know the old Atlas and other earlier track plan books (like some from Kalmbach) also had impossible to make arrangements.

Sometimes a saw would make it possible. Other times it was just dreaming (without a caveat that said "there is no possible way to make this unless you hand lay every tie and custom bend every curve").


Hi orionstars,

This is my second time building a Marklin layout. First one used K track which was easy to manipulate and cut. With C track it's not so easy to manipulate but cutting it is no problem.LOL I like to make my dreams come true so most endeavors Ièm able to overcome.

Michel
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Offline LoeM  
#26 Posted : 01 December 2018 22:11:55(UTC)
LoeM

Netherlands   
Joined: 18/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Zuid-Holland
Hi Marklin Users,

My experience is that a track plan op paper, or a digital one, are always not fitting totally. Your table is not 100% flat, the edges of the table not 90*, the tracks you use are not as equal as they should. There are always differences. Track software also accepts deviations. The slope is not equally steep everywhere.

I had an idea for an layout and made a track plan with software. Some connections were in the track plan not possible, but practical executable with some minor changes.
My advice: use always planning software and build your table and tracks step by step. Always check whether the next track section fits.
NB: a layout with C-tracks is more difficult to to realise than a K-track plan.

Good luck with making your layout!
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#27 Posted : 02 December 2018 16:06:22(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,742
more comprehensive than the track length table is this calculator:
https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2002/05/track-length-calculator.html

It will also calculate the length needed to make up a distance at an angle!
Dale
Arrival and Departure signs: http://remotesign.mixmox.com
My first layout: http://layout.mixmox.com
My current layout (under construction): http://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
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