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Offline skeeterbuck  
#1 Posted : 19 December 2015 20:22:38(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I currently using just a 6021 Control Unit for operation my locos. All my locos are older digital units which only have 6090 units installed with one function or units which only have whistle, chug & smoke control which the 6021 can handle. If I get one of the new steam locos with the additional sounds etc., what will I need to add to use the additional features?

Can I use a MS2 or do I need the CS and are they used in conjunction with the 6021 or in place of the 6021?

Thanks for the help.Confused

Chuck
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Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 19 December 2015 21:27:07(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The 6021 is very capable of controlling locomotives with the newer decoders.
It does use only the MM (Marklin Motorola) format , however all decoders from Marklin use MM as a minimum.

You reference "one function", this is a limitation of the 6090 decoder not the 6021, which can access 5 functions (Main Auxillary function - called F0 - and 4 extended functions F1-F4) per address. For your 6021 to provide this capability, the DIP switch #2 at the back of the unit needs to be set on.

6090x decoders through to the current 6094x/6096x decoders have progressed to 16 functions, and the 6097x/6098x decoders announced this year have 32 functions BUT even the CS2 can not currently use them directly (Update due by the end of the year ?!).

Above, I made the comment about 5 functions PER ADDRESS. This needs to be dwelt upon as Marklins marketing for even the latest locomotives continues to insist on showing that a 6021 can only control up to 5 functions. Personally I consider this as deliberately misleading.

With any current decoders, it is possible to allocate a different address for F5-8, F9-12, F13-F15. and therefore for use with a 6021
You may enable 1, 2 or 3 extensions and they may be set to "consecutive" (Base address +1, +2, +3) or specifically defined.

These 2nd,3rd,4th addresses have no control over speed HOWEVER the 6021 has a neat capability with the "L" and "F" buttons, to allow the throttle to maintain control of the base address, while using the F to select the alternate addresses

Because the 6021 only has an address range of 1-80, it may be prudent that only 2 of the 4 extra addresses be enabled so as to allow for more than 20 locomotives.
If your locomotive has more than 8 functions it is possible to move the "common" ones that you wish to use into that range.

Note: some of the setup and adjustment of functions may need to be done by your Dealer, Friend or Club , but once set up the 6021 is quite capable of using them.

And just in case you are trying to work out why F15 and not F16 , it is because the main function on the first address is called F0
.......................Decoder Translation
6021 Button. 1st_Addr 2nd_Addr 3rd_Addr 4th_Addr
Aux Function ...F0
F1 .............F1.......F5.......F9.......F13
F2 .............F2.......F6.......F10......F14
F3 .............F3.......F7.......F11......F15 (Theoretical but no-go)
F4 .............F4.......F8.......F12

Edited by user 20 December 2015 10:20:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2015 00:15:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Peter, I've first noticed this ability with the ECoS, not that I'm using the 6021 but by fitting ESU decoders into locos I've recommended they can access 15 functions and they were a bit gobsmacked. I have to see if the Märklin decoders one of my friend has, although advertised for only 4 functions capable, your discovery tells another story and therefore as you said misleading information from Märklin.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2015 05:12:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I have experimented with activating the Motorola Second Address feature on a couple of models, which gives you access to F5 through F8. I have not been able to access additional sounds beyond F8 and on one of my Roco trains with a Zimo decoder, the activation of the Second Address feature seems to have affected how the train reacts to commands issued by the MS2 which accesses it via DCC.

Do Maerklin loks (current OEM decoders) have the second address feature? For example the 37792 TGV Lyria or the 37462 Re 460?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2015 07:22:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Do Maerklin loks (current OEM decoders) have the second address feature? For example the 37792 TGV Lyria or the 37462 Re 460?
All mfx decoders that Märklin ever installed into H0 locos support at least two addresses (AFAIK). The current fx decoders still only have one address.
With Märklin installing Märklin decoders, I think we cannot call those crippled decoders OEM decoders.

All current mfx decoders support 4 addresses. I only got F0 through F14 working - theoretically it should work up to F15.
With current ESU decoders you get F0 through F16 (I didn't try it yet, but ESU advertise this).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2015 08:59:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

Do Maerklin loks (current OEM decoders) have the second address feature? For example the 37792 TGV Lyria or the 37462 Re 460?

I am unclear on what you mean by stating OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) when these items come with Marklin mfx decoders.

Without sighting these particular models (or their decoders) specifically, I can only say that with the mfx decoder they should have 2nd address capability

It is not just a mater of having the capability , but it has to be enabled
You may play around with CV's but the best option is to get access to a friends/clubs/dealers CS2

UserPostedImage

Aside from the address values you have options
- to set how many addresses are to be used
- if the addresses are consecutive, or if you wish to use CV 75,17,18 to assign them specifically

To set the number of address refer to the dots for 2/4 Addr (CV 49.0) and 3/4 Addr (CV 49.1).
These names are unnecessarily confusing but what they mean is that for ...

........2/4 Addr..3/4 Addr
1 Addr....OFF......OFF..CV 49 starts with a value of 0
2 Addr....ON.......OFF..CV 49 starts with a value of 1
3 Addr....OFF......ON...CV 49 starts with a value of 2
4 Addr....ON.......ON...CV 49 starts with a value of 3


To choose consecutive or specific addressing....
set CV 49.2 Folge Aus (automatische Folgeadressierung = automatic consequence addressing)

ON..= Aus (No, Use the addresses set in CVs 75,17,18)..Add 0 to CV 49
OFF.= Ein (Yes , use Consecutive addresses)............Add 4 to CV 49


e.g. All retrofit decoders have a default setting of 5 in CV 49. (i.e. 1 + 4)
This means two addresses enabled but NO consecutive addressing (Uses CV75 to ascertain the second address)

Comment,
The screen shot shows usage of addresses 160,161,162 - These can obviously not be accessed by a 6021, but could be used by another controller that does support the full fx(mm) address range of 1-255.

And, of course, if the controller is transmitting mFX and mFX is not disabled in the decoder, then all the above settings are totally ignored.

Edited by user 20 December 2015 19:49:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2015 10:20:04(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

... I only got F0 through F14 working - theoretically it should work up to F15.

I concur with issues getting F15 (4th address F3) to work.
Neither do new decoders 6097* (With F16 upwards defined) allow F16 to work as 4th Address F4
Peter
Online kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 20 December 2015 12:16:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

I am unclear on what you mean by stating OEM (Other Equipment Manufacturer) when these items come with Marklin mfx decoders.


OEM is normally used to mean 'Original Equipment Manufacturer'. I have never seen it used to mean 'Other ...'

Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 20 December 2015 16:33:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
OEM is normally used to mean 'Original Equipment Manufacturer'.
Yep. And AFAIK this term is normally used for third-party components.
https://en.wikipedia.org...l_equipment_manufacturer

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#10 Posted : 20 December 2015 19:34:28(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Peter for your helpful reply. The thing that I find confusing is when I see a loco on a site and they tell you what digital equipment that you need to access the functions, yet you are saying that with the 6021 I can get almost all of them. This is a link to the loco I am referring to:

https://translate.google...D1002579&prev=search

You will notice at the end of the listing it indicates what Marklin digital equipment is required to activate the different features. It indicates that you can access 5 functions with the 6021, 10 functions with the MS and all 11 functions with the CS. Is this correct?

Thanks again for all your help and patience.

Chuck

P.S. I used to ask my local Marlin Dealer these type of questions but they closed up shop (retired) several years ago and there are no other dealers close to me. Sad
Offline clapcott  
#11 Posted : 20 December 2015 19:52:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

I am unclear on what you mean by stating OEM (Other Equipment Manufacturer) when these items come with Marklin mfx decoders.


OEM is normally used to mean 'Original Equipment Manufacturer'. I have never seen it used to mean 'Other ...'


Apologies ... O = Original.

As to meaning though, I consider it a reference to another company making a product that can work with the first (Usually adhering to specifications rather than a straight clone) . Hence my confusion - I would not use it for a company (Marklin) referring to their own (mfx) decoders.
(Please do not bring up that ESU designed mfx for Marklin)
Peter
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 20 December 2015 19:54:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
You will notice at the end of the listing it indicates what Marklin digital equipment is required to activate the different features. It indicates that you can access 5 functions with the 6021, 10 functions with the MS and all 11 functions with the CS. Is this correct?
Better check with the Märklin product database:
http://www.maerklin.de/e...pdb_pi1%5Bsearchres%5D=1

Mobile Station is limited to 9 functions (there must be an error with this loco). Central Station and Mobile Station 2 give you access to up to 16 functions.

Peter already wrote that Märklin normally do not mention that the 6021 can control 9 or 14 functions with mfx decoders.

The 37991 is one of the few locos where they mention this in the manual:
http://www.maerklin.de/e...pdb_pi1%5Bsearchres%5D=1

And when you look at the description of the mfx symbol then you may notice that his information wasn't updated for years: "Digital decoder with up to 9 digitally controlled functions, which can be operated with the 60652 or 60651 Mobile Station. Up to 5 functions, which can be operated with the 6021 Control Unit. Equipped for up to 16 functions with future controllers. The functions present depend on how the locomotive is equipped."
They consequently ignore e-mails that inform them about errors in the product database.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline stevep  
#13 Posted : 21 December 2015 00:15:40(UTC)
stevep

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Illinois, Chicago
Hello I have a 6021 controller which came with my 10 year old 29854 starter set.

This year I renewed my interest in railroading and purchased some new locos including
a Marklin 37741 V 160 "Lollo".

The factory assigned controller address for this loco is 16 . What steps do I follow to assign the loco's additional functions to
6021 controller address 17?

Thank you
Steve
Offline clapcott  
#14 Posted : 21 December 2015 05:38:42(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: stevep Go to Quoted Post

The factory assigned controller address for this loco is 16 . What steps do I follow to assign the loco's additional functions to
6021 controller address 17?

If you are not familiar with using the 6021 for programing a decoder, refer ...
http://www.maerklin.de/f...ogrammieren_mit_6021.pdf

Set register (CV) 49 to a value = 1 should do the trick

Comment:
1) Recommend ensuring the locomotive lights are switched on before you start so you can see the various flashings

2) As usual Marklins instructions are a bit glib so read with a does of salt.
- Step 2, for example, indicates to hold the 2 buttons down until the 99 appears.
In actual practice you do not see the 99 until you have held the 2 buttons down together AND THEN RELEASED THEM
- The 99 only appears for a second.
- Between step 5 and 6 , you can release the control knob.
Peter
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Offline stevep  
#15 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:08:12(UTC)
stevep

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Illinois, Chicago
Peter,
Thank you for your reply. I opened the link and read the programing manual.
I think understand the steps to follow.

But I don't know what "Set register (CV) 49 to a value = 1 should do the trick" means.
Can you explain this to me? Sorry for being such a rookie.

Thanks again for your help.

Steve
Offline skeeterbuck  
#16 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:20:00(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: stevep Go to Quoted Post
Peter,
Thank you for your reply. I opened the link and read the programing manual.
I think understand the steps to follow.

But I don't know what "Set register (CV) 49 to a value = 1 should do the trick" means.
Can you explain this to me? Sorry for being such a rookie.

Thanks again for your help.

Steve


Don't feel bad Steve, I'm learning right along with you. Blushing

Chuck
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:27:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Setting CV 49 to '1' tells the decoder to assign the next four functions (f5-f8) to the next address after the locos. If your loco is at address 16 the address for the next functions will be set to 17.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline skeeterbuck  
#18 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:37:53(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Setting CV 49 to '1' tells the decoder to assign the next four functions (f5-f8) to the next address after the locos. If your loco is at address 16 the address for the next functions will be set to 17.


Ray, so if I'm understanding this correctly, when you have the 6021 set to address 16, you have the first 4 functions controlled by the F1 thru F4 buttons. Then, to activate the next four functions you switch the address to 17 and then the F1 thru F4 buttons are actually controlling functions 5 thru 8 on the same locomotive?

I guess that that would mean that you can't be using another loco that has an address one up from the loco you're controlling in use on the same circuit, in this case address 17. Is this correct?

Chuck
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:46:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Setting CV 49 to '1' tells the decoder to assign the next four functions (f5-f8) to the next address after the locos. If your loco is at address 16 the address for the next functions will be set to 17.


Ray, so if I'm understanding this correctly, when you have the 6021 set to address 16, you have the first 4 functions controlled by the F1 thru F4 buttons. Then, to activate the next four functions you switch the address to 17 and then the F1 thru F4 buttons are actually controlling functions 5 thru 8 on the same locomotive?

I guess that that would mean that you can't be using another loco that has an address one up from the loco you're controlling in use on the same circuit, in this case address 17. Is this correct?

Chuck


That's exactly right. Taking it to the extreme, if you have all your locos assigned this way, with all sixteen functions used with four loco addresses, then the limit for the number of locos drops from 80 to 20 using the 6021.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline stevep  
#20 Posted : 21 December 2015 16:52:06(UTC)
stevep

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Illinois, Chicago
ok this is good and I am going to try it over holiday weekend.
But unfortunately I still don't understand how to set
"CV-49" to "1"?
Guess if I knew what a CV-49 is, that would help :)

Thanks again for your help and patience.
Steve

Online kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 21 December 2015 17:47:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Setting CV 49 to '1' tells the decoder to assign the next four functions (f5-f8) to the next address after the locos. If your loco is at address 16 the address for the next functions will be set to 17.


Ray, so if I'm understanding this correctly, when you have the 6021 set to address 16, you have the first 4 functions controlled by the F1 thru F4 buttons. Then, to activate the next four functions you switch the address to 17 and then the F1 thru F4 buttons are actually controlling functions 5 thru 8 on the same locomotive?

I guess that that would mean that you can't be using another loco that has an address one up from the loco you're controlling in use on the same circuit, in this case address 17. Is this correct?

Chuck


Don't forget that at the bottom of the keyboard on a 6021 (and 6036) there are buttons each side of the '0' button.

I can't remember what the buttons are labelled, but one is the 'loco controller' (the default mode for the keyboard) and the other is the 'accessory controller'. You can set the 'accessory decoder' side to the 'address+1' (do it the same way as setting the loco address) and then you can use this set of functions for the additional four functions - with the advantage that the speed control knob still works on the 'loco control' address.

By pushing each of those two buttons (each side of the '0') you can select which set of functions you control, but you always have the loco speed under control.
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H0
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 21 December 2015 17:57:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I can't remember what the buttons are labelled, but one is the 'loco controller' (the default mode for the keyboard) and the other is the 'accessory controller'.
The buttons are "L" and "F".
See also:
http://blog.mailez.de/eb...unctions-with-mfx-locos/

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#23 Posted : 21 December 2015 17:59:50(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Setting CV 49 to '1' tells the decoder to assign the next four functions (f5-f8) to the next address after the locos. If your loco is at address 16 the address for the next functions will be set to 17.


Ray, so if I'm understanding this correctly, when you have the 6021 set to address 16, you have the first 4 functions controlled by the F1 thru F4 buttons. Then, to activate the next four functions you switch the address to 17 and then the F1 thru F4 buttons are actually controlling functions 5 thru 8 on the same locomotive?

I guess that that would mean that you can't be using another loco that has an address one up from the loco you're controlling in use on the same circuit, in this case address 17. Is this correct?

Chuck


Don't forget that at the bottom of the keyboard on a 6021 (and 6036) there are buttons each side of the '0' button.

I can't remember what the buttons are labelled, but one is the 'loco controller' (the default mode for the keyboard) and the other is the 'accessory controller'. You can set the 'accessory decoder' side to the 'address+1' (do it the same way as setting the loco address) and then you can use this set of functions for the additional four functions - with the advantage that the speed control knob still works on the 'loco control' address.

By pushing each of those two buttons (each side of the '0') you can select which set of functions you control, but you always have the loco speed under control.


The one to the left of 0 is the "L" button (Loco) and the one to the right is the "F" button (Function).

So Tom, is this correct that you press the "F: button and them F1 thru F4 become F5 thru F8?

Chuck
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 21 December 2015 18:01:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: stevep Go to Quoted Post
Guess if I knew what a CV-49 is, that would help :)
Look at the instructions for programming the loco.
You can change the address with register 1 (or CV 1). You set acceleration delay with CV 3, braking delay with CV 4. With register 75 (or CV 75) you set the second address.
There are some undocumented CVs, including CV 49 which specifies how many addresses the loco has and how they are determined.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline clapcott  
#25 Posted : 21 December 2015 19:33:13(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Refer : CV List for Motorola/fx ...
http://www.maerklin.de/f...CV-Liste_FX__28MM_29.pdf

Peter
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Offline H0  
#26 Posted : 21 December 2015 19:56:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
The one to the left of 0 is the "L" button (Loco) and the one to the right is the "F" button (Function).

So Tom, is this correct that you press the "F: button and them F1 thru F4 become F5 thru F8?
When the F light is on, you see/set the address for F1 through F4. When the L light is on, you see/set the address for throttle and function/off.

So assuming a loco with addresses 16 and 17, you would leave L at 16 all the time while F will either be 16 or 17, depending what you want to trigger.
With address 17, F1 through F4 will activate F5 through F8.
For locos with more than 2 addresses, these can be F9 through F12 or F13 through F14/F15/F16.

You can use addresses from different locos. You can drive a "silent" loco and blow the horn of a sound loco at the same time.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline bph  
#27 Posted : 12 November 2018 18:50:08(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Thanks for the tips provided here, it’s enabling me to use 16 functions on SNCF 241 A 65, on my 6021.
But I’m using up available addresses fast on the 6021, so I have disabled 3rd and 4th address again on some locomotives.
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