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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 06 July 2018 12:13:51(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
I ordered a helix from Noch and the segments were labelled incorrectly, so the c track wouldn't fit correctly. I sent them an email and some photos and within 2 days they confirmed that the pieces were incorrectly labelled and that they would send out the correct replacement pieces. How fantastic is that - congratulations to Noch for their decisive action something which is lacking very much with Marklin.

I sent back 2 locos to Marklin that were only a few months old and they informed me that they wouldn't repair them under warranty as they had excessive use. I use TrainController and I keep a record of the usage of the layout and on average the layout gets about 20 hours use per month. I'm really disappointed and angry with Marklin for pulling this stunt on me and I'm considering NOT to buy any more Marklin locos. This is Marklin's idea of loosing a 20,000 euro per year customer - great business sense. Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2018 12:26:54(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
If the locos had 20 hours of use, why did they need repair in the first place?
Offline Drongo  
#3 Posted : 06 July 2018 14:05:39(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
If the locos had 20 hours of use, why did they need repair in the first place?


Very bad manufacturing !!!!!!!!!!
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline aos  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2018 17:06:50(UTC)
aos

Scotland   
Joined: 03/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 524
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Hi, I know that it is no consolation to you, but would you please advise us of the model numbers of the locos. I don't want to buy them if they are suspect. Alan.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 06 July 2018 17:42:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post

I sent back 2 locos to Marklin that were only a few months old and they informed me that they wouldn't repair them under warranty as they had excessive use. I use TrainController and I keep a record of the usage of the layout and on average the layout gets about 20 hours use per month. I'm really disappointed and angry with Marklin for pulling this stunt on me and I'm considering NOT to buy any more Marklin locos. This is Marklin's idea of loosing a 20,000 euro per year customer - great business sense. Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing


Post a snail mail letter or email to the service department, copy to Herr Sieber, complaining about this and asking for an explanation of what causes them to believe there is "excessive use".
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Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 08 July 2018 03:30:20(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post

I sent back 2 locos to Marklin that were only a few months old and they informed me that they wouldn't repair them under warranty as they had excessive use. I use TrainController and I keep a record of the usage of the layout and on average the layout gets about 20 hours use per month. I'm really disappointed and angry with Marklin for pulling this stunt on me and I'm considering NOT to buy any more Marklin locos. This is Marklin's idea of loosing a 20,000 euro per year customer - great business sense. Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing


Post a snail mail letter or email to the service department, copy to Herr Sieber, complaining about this and asking for an explanation of what causes them to believe there is "excessive use".


I'm with Alan on this, you deserve an explanation.

How do they measure "excessive use"? are the decoders now recording running hours?

Or do they look at wear of a combination of....

Pickup?
Wheels?
Motor Brushes?

Did you buy it from a dealer?, if so I'd be involving them as well. ie did they warn you the item was only suitable for xx hours of operation, and how would they measure that; xx hours per year, per month, or week? is there a maximum continuous running period and so on?

They would not get away with that under NZ or Australian Consumer Gaurantees and Sale of Goods legislation where a product must be fit for purpose, AND must last for a reasonable period of time which they CANNOT circumvent with their own warranty 12, 24 months or whatever.

Also, is there a direct correlation between the failure and the 'excessive use'?, ie if the actual fault is a badly worn gear train, or some other mechanical component which is clearly and visibly worn, that's one thing, but if it was say a decoder failure, or some other non-mechanical component then it's hard to imagine any degree of use that would make any difference either way. I've known electronic components to fail within a few weeks of use, and the exact same component to be still working after several years.

Whatever you do, DON'T just roll over and accept it, I certainly wouldn't.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline MaerklinLife  
#7 Posted : 08 July 2018 06:33:09(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Very bad manufacturing !!!!!!!!!!

I understand, you're angry. And that is perfectly fine, if you have been treated badly.

But your complaint is very hard to take seriously with the excessive use of "!" and angry faces and not a single product number. Please provide a product number so we can see which models you are talking about. I am not saying that I do not believe you, but I am saying that a statement like yours without any additional information is not very useful to anybody.

Also: How did you come by the models? Did you buy them from a store? Did you buy the used from eBay? There are a lot of factors that we do not know. I think it is wrong to play a long on a complaint like this without any real information.
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 08 July 2018 07:22:47(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Greg, have you received the locos back from Märklin ? or are you contemplating another avenue to get them fixed. what type of problem did you experience to send them back to be fixed under warranty ?
it sound s like you've been proofed guilty of the problem unless YOU CAN PROOF you're innocent,

that is a lot of money you're spending on Märklin and it doesn't look like your purchases are within Australia as you've mentioned Euros, this equals to about 40 locos @ € 500.00 each, unfortunately money or the amount you spend on anything these days doens't count, being a good or excellent customer goes into the cash cow basket and is revealed at the end of the financial year in a loss & profit statement.

I think some model train enthusiasts don't realize how fragile a guarantee can be until you face it face to face.

to be honest I'm very cautious when it comes to buying Märklin locos especially steam locos a.) if anything goes wrong paying for postage isn't cheap. b.) getting spare parts down the track, c.) what it means when it comes to a guarantee = not much when you have to pay for the expense (postage and possible repair costs),
when I buy Märklin locos I buy the cheapest on the market so I can update them myself and this usually involves older steam locos or from the hobby type range.
for instance, at the moment I'm converting a BR 111 with sound for a friend in Hong Kong (Lou), it will have a 5 pol high efficiency motor with ball bearings, led headlights and marker lights, lit instrument panel on drivers side, driver, interior cab light on both sides, ESU sound decoder with adapter plate and a Zimo loudspeaker.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 08 July 2018 22:14:10(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Would it be too much for people to include their name and location in their posts? If you don't want to post your full name, you can put only your first name or first name and initial like I do.
I would feel better knowing who I am discussing things with.

As far as Drongo's situation, I would send a letter or email to service(at)maerklin.de or to Kundendienst in Goeppingen explaining when you bought the item, how much use it saw since then and asking them to elaborate on their decision.

Märklin & Cie. GmbH.
Kundendienst
Stuttgarter Straße 55-57
D-73033 Göppingen
Germany

Regards

Mike C
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Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 08 July 2018 23:23:25(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
In the UK it is the dealer that is responsible for goods sold not the manufacturer. Is this not the same in most countries.

What was the problem with the locos and what are the product numbers etc. It does appear odd that two locos have been returned with the same reply of excessive use.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Cyborg  
#11 Posted : 09 July 2018 00:32:46(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hello,

I find this situation quite unusual as the experience I have had with Marklin service has always been positive. I have only had to send back one locomotive for an issue with it's lights from my small collection of 10 and it was repaired no problem.

They replaced the cable on my Mobile Station due to the plug being damaged, which was probably my fault, under warranty no questioned asked and they have promptly replaced numerous faulty turn out motors.

My only issue with Marklin Service is their extremely poor communication, with them very rarely responding to email queries.

cheers

Paul
Offline Drongo  
#12 Posted : 09 July 2018 01:26:31(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
To answer your questions.

1. The model numbers are: 39030 and 36504

2. They have been on the layout for about 6 months

3. I purchased them from a Marklin retailer in Germany

4. The problem with the locos for me to send them back was that they didn't work - it wasn't until the service department looked at them that I knew the problem. The gGoogle translation isn't the clearest to understand, however, they refuse to repair under warranty due to "dirt and wear".

5. The reason for the volume of purchases is that with a friend, we are building layouts for nursing homes - Marklin is well aware of this and asked if they could feature this in their magazine. I've sent them a small script and photos and now they don't reply. And as for writing to them - I'm regularly sending them emails and I have Florian Seiber's P.A.'s email as well as Frank Mayer's, and Frank sometimes reply and Florian Seiber refuses to answer any of my emails - his P.A. says he's too busy. Also, last September, I went to Goeppingen and spoke to Frank Mayer for about 30 minutes, expressing my concerns, and I could have been speaking to a brick wall, as he showed no interest what soever.

Now you know why I'm angry - I feel I have a right to be angry with the way Marklin have treated me. If you want further information I'll gladly provide it.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 09 July 2018 03:51:24(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Greg,

I, like many others here, was under the impression that the models were being used on your own layout, ie for personal use. If your models are being used on layouts set up at nursing homes, the models might be considered for commercial use, even if you are not being paid outright for the use of the models. I don't know what your deal is with the nursing homes where these layouts are being built, so I cannot comment more.

As far as the models themselves, how much maintenance were they receiving during the time that they were in operation? Would regular maintenance (oil, removal of dust, etc) have averted the problem. Did the locomotives receive care around every 40 hours of operation? You said that the layout was in use about 20 hours a month. Were these locomotives in use all of the time? If yes, they would have been due for maintenance every two months.

Perhaps you could rotate the locomotives in use so that none would be in use more than 10 hours a month? If would also help if they were cleaned of dust when swapped.
Do you have a track cleaner/vacuum car that could be used to remove dust from the tracks that could be run every few days?

Would there be a way to encase the layout to minimize the dust?

Regards

Mike C

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Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 09 July 2018 05:17:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Greg, dirt and wear ? have you received the locos back ? and if so can you show us some pictures of the motor/gears/wheels and see how much dirt and wear is apparent.

off topic: it always amazes me when on one hand maintenance is recommended by the manufacturer and on the other hand is it really necessary to maintain them every 40 hours, mind you when we displayed our layout (12hours x 7days) we had to oil some locos but since than all my locos have ball bearings and this is no longer needed.
I also find it strange, Märklin knows the problem with 3 pole drum motors or 5 pole drum motors, tried to improve it but than gave up and since than nothing has been done about it.
so here we have again a technology or mechanism which hasn't changed since the 70's (drum armature related motors), I'm sure there are many of you who haven't experienced the problems regarding oiling but it makes no sense to me oiling locos without expecting grime and dirt being attracted by the presence of oil.
Worm gears usually are covered so any grease present doesn't flow or expand to other parts of the loco and lasts much longer than oil.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Mark_1602  
#15 Posted : 14 July 2018 15:21:09(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
To answer your questions.

1. The model numbers are: 39030 and 36504

2. They have been on the layout for about 6 months

3. I purchased them from a Marklin retailer in Germany

4. The problem with the locos for me to send them back was that they didn't work - it wasn't until the service department looked at them that I knew the problem. The gGoogle translation isn't the clearest to understand, however, they refuse to repair under warranty due to "dirt and wear".

5. The reason for the volume of purchases is that with a friend, we are building layouts for nursing homes - Marklin is well aware of this and asked if they could feature this in their magazine. I've sent them a small script and photos and now they don't reply. And as for writing to them - I'm regularly sending them emails and I have Florian Seiber's P.A.'s email as well as Frank Mayer's, and Frank sometimes reply and Florian Seiber refuses to answer any of my emails - his P.A. says he's too busy. Also, last September, I went to Goeppingen and spoke to Frank Mayer for about 30 minutes, expressing my concerns, and I could have been speaking to a brick wall, as he showed no interest what soever.

Now you know why I'm angry - I feel I have a right to be angry with the way Marklin have treated me. If you want further information I'll gladly provide it.

Regards
Greg



Hi Greg,

39030 was a club model announced in 2015. Are you sure that this loco you bought from a Märklin retailer is brand new, not second-hand? If you're not the first owner, there is no Märklin warranty for you, but only the dealer's commercial warranty. Were both locos really advertised as 'Neuware', i.e. never sold before? Is that Märklin retailer really an official Märklin dealer? How come he still had a club model from 2015 in stock recently?

Both locos you mention come with DC motors that might only last for a few hundred hours. If they were used for several hours a day over a six-month period, the motors might need to be replaced now. That's a typical problem with most of today's model trains, and one that has to be reckoned with. Customers and MRR magazines wanted more detailed models at any cost (and manufacturers had to cut costs). Now they got them, but don't expect sturdy designs from new tooling. These DC motors can be replaced at low cost anyway.

You've explained that these two locos were used on layouts in nursing homes. Did anybody look after them and service them there? Did you open, inspect or clean them before you sent them back to Märklin? If not, can Märklin rally be blamed for that? You weren't there when the locos were used, so you can't tell what really happened there, right?

You've said that you're angry because the CEO and owner did not get into touch with you personally. Is it really his job to write to every customer that has a warranty case? It's true that Märklin isn't very good at communication, but so far its repair service has solved all of my warranty cases. If Frank Meyer talked to you for 30 minutes, you can't claim that Märklin ignored your problem.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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