Copper Reverse Spring

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Copper Reverse Spring - Primex 2702 (E44)

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skeeterbuck		#1 Posted : 23 March 2018 02:16:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		I recently bought a primex 2702 20th anniversary set and even though it had been open it shows no sign of use. The gears on the E44 were rather stiff which is normal and after some cleaning and re-oiling I had it running fine. I notice that the reverse unit coil kept engaging the reverse switch as I advanced the throttle. This is a typical sign that the spring is too weak. That is when I noticed that the spring is made from what looks like copper. This is the first time I have ever seen a copper reverse unit spring. I know that the Primex line in some respects was a less expensive Marklin product but I would think that a copper spring would be more expensive than a normal steel spring. Is this common? Has anyone here ever seen a copper reverse spring? Chuck


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kiwiAlan		#2 Posted : 23 March 2018 12:16:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,102 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck I recently bought a primex 2702 20th anniversary set and even though it had been open it shows no sign of use. The gears on the E44 were rather stiff which is normal and after some cleaning and re-oiling I had it running fine. I notice that the reverse unit coil kept engaging the reverse switch as I advanced the throttle. This is a typical sign that the spring is too weak. That is when I noticed that the spring is made from what looks like copper. This is the first time I have ever seen a copper reverse unit spring. I know that the Primex line in some respects was a less expensive Marklin product but I would think that a copper spring would be more expensive than a normal steel spring. Is this common? Has anyone here ever seen a copper reverse spring? Chuck It won't be copper, I think you will find it is phosphor bronze which has spring properties that copper doesn't. Copper is too soft to be a spring. Phosphor bronze is sometimes used for the wires on the brush plate to provide the springiness to push the brushes.

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skeeterbuck		#3 Posted : 23 March 2018 12:42:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck I recently bought a primex 2702 20th anniversary set and even though it had been open it shows no sign of use. The gears on the E44 were rather stiff which is normal and after some cleaning and re-oiling I had it running fine. I notice that the reverse unit coil kept engaging the reverse switch as I advanced the throttle. This is a typical sign that the spring is too weak. That is when I noticed that the spring is made from what looks like copper. This is the first time I have ever seen a copper reverse unit spring. I know that the Primex line in some respects was a less expensive Marklin product but I would think that a copper spring would be more expensive than a normal steel spring. Is this common? Has anyone here ever seen a copper reverse spring? Chuck It won't be copper, I think you will find it is phosphor bronze which has spring properties that copper doesn't. Copper is too soft to be a spring. Phosphor bronze is sometimes used for the wires on the brush plate to provide the springiness to push the brushes. Alan, I agree that sounds more plausible. I think it would have been more accurate for me to say a copper colored spring. What I don't get is why use it in the first place instead of the steel spring? Chuck


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JohnjeanB		#4 Posted : 23 March 2018 13:27:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,114 Location: Paris, France		Hi I suppose Märklin spent quite a lot of energy to manufacture a proper reverse unit working all the time and minimizing the jump during direction change impulse hence the special springs. Later, around 1980 Märklin introduced electronic inverters to avoid the jump and to provide constant lighting (no more flashing bulbs). Cheers Jean
		My layout videos latest vid marshalling yard My Layout

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kiwiAlan		#5 Posted : 23 March 2018 14:57:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,102 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck What I don't get is why use it in the first place instead of the steel spring? Chuck Probably cheaper at the time.


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skeeterbuck		#6 Posted : 23 March 2018 20:02:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck What I don't get is why use it in the first place instead of the steel spring? Chuck Probably cheaper at the time. I find that hard to believe plus the fact that now you have another part number. That doesn't go to my way of German frugality. On the other hand I can't think of what else it could be but the bottom line.


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skeeterbuck		#7 Posted : 24 March 2018 15:21:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Just for the record here's two pics of the spring. You can see how much I needed to shorten it to get the reverse unit to sequence properly. I could have replaced it with a new spring but I guess I'm also too frugal. The third pic is the engine freshly oiled, back together and running fine. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img]


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RayF		#8 Posted : 24 March 2018 16:20:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,839 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Hi Chuck, I just opened up my Primex 2702 loco and I've found it has the same type of "copper" coloured spring. Mine has no problems reversing though. It behaves perfectly under power and the reverser only activates when I give it the pulse. Looking at both it seems to me that your spring is fairly slack compared to mine, so maybe you just have a bad spring.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.

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jvuye		#9 Posted : 24 March 2018 16:37:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,881 Location: South Western France		Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Just for the record here's two pics of the spring. You can see how much I needed to shorten it to get the reverse unit to sequence properly. I could have replaced it with a new spring but I guess I'm also too frugal. The third pic is the engine freshly oiled, back together and running fine. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] Hi! In fact you don't normally have to shorthen (or lengthen...) that little spring! Using a screw driver, just bend the little finger back or forth to adjust the tension. Everything's done in a matter of seconds, no fiddling necessary. Hope this helps Jacques
		Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!

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rrf		#10 Posted : 24 March 2018 17:08:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Hello, Your picture looks very similar to something I did as a teenager. Lacking the proper reverse unit spring for one of my locomotives, I used a portion of an M-Track switch's solenoid spring. This was not a very good solution. Once you had the correct tension on the spring, it would only be a few weeks before the spring was too loose and needed further adjustment. It took another 10 or so years before I found a US source for spare parts. Regards,
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn

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skeeterbuck		#11 Posted : 24 March 2018 21:00:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello, Your picture looks very similar to something I did as a teenager. Lacking the proper reverse unit spring for one of my locomotives, I used a portion of an M-Track switch's solenoid spring. This was not a very good solution. Once you had the correct tension on the spring, it would only be a few weeks before the spring was too loose and needed further adjustment. It took another 10 or so years before I found a US source for spare parts. Regards, This is the factory spring that came with the loco. I shortened it because it was too weak to work properly and you could not bend the reverse unit hook enough to get it corrected. Chuck


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skeeterbuck		#12 Posted : 24 March 2018 21:04:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Originally Posted by: RayF Hi Chuck, I just opened up my Primex 2702 loco and I've found it has the same type of "copper" coloured spring. Mine has no problems reversing though. It behaves perfectly under power and the reverser only activates when I give it the pulse. Looking at both it seems to me that your spring is fairly slack compared to mine, so maybe you just have a bad spring. Yes Ray, I would agree. Chuck


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skeeterbuck		#13 Posted : 24 March 2018 21:15:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Just for the record here's two pics of the spring. You can see how much I needed to shorten it to get the reverse unit to sequence properly. I could have replaced it with a new spring but I guess I'm also too frugal. The third pic is the engine freshly oiled, back together and running fine. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] Hi! In fact you don't normally have to shorthen (or lengthen...) that little spring! Using a screw driver, just bend the little finger back or forth to adjust the tension. Everything's done in a matter of seconds, no fiddling necessary. Hope this helps Jacques Jacques, when I first tried the loco it would only run a short distance before stopping because the reverse unit was engaging. This is a classic sign that there is not enough tension on the reverse unit spring. I tried bending the hook and increasing the tension, but the spring was so weak that it still was not enough. Only by shortening the spring to increase the tension was I able to get the reverse unit to sequence properly. Chuck

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