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Märklin E 94 004 slow motion with the C-sine motor, a rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver board
 Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Hello, i have received my boards some time ago, i have just start working some days ago. I have installed one in the E94 004 running with a LP4M4, overall it runs well but when going to FS0 from FS1 it makes a jump, i have tried with several values at CV2 but with no positive results.
Also i have installed one in a RAm using a Marklin 60973 platine, here it does not work at all, i think perhaps it is a problem with the platine wiring, will continue trying
Regards
Francisco |
 German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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 Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Did you set the PWM frequency to 20kHz? |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Duh.....Problem solved
Thanks Moritz, now just wait to order a loksound in the future. |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
 1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: franciscohg  Duh.....Problem solved
Thanks Moritz, now just wait to order a loksound in the future. The 20kHz setting solved the problem? Great! Have fun with the DsM 2.0! Regards, Moritz |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Yes, now my 39700 RAm is running like heaven too!!!!!! |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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 Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thank you Moritz for your contribution to the C-Sinus motor.
I bought the developer DsM 2.0 from Rail4you for my Marklin 39160 that has a C-Sinus . But my surprise is that the motor is not connected with flexible cable but with 6 independent wires.
What do I do to connect the C-Sinus with the Dsm 2.0?
You can help me?
Many thanks
Joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Joseluisvalde, rail4you.ch will provide very soon an adapter board to solder the wires to the adapter board and then connect with the DsM 2.0. I will reiceive two of them and report here, when it is available. Regards, Moritz Originally Posted by: joseluisvalde Thank you Moritz for your contribution to the C-Sinus motor.
I bought the developer DsM 2.0 from Rail4you for my Marklin 39160 that has a C-Sinus . But my surprise is that the motor is not connected with flexible cable but with 6 independent wires.
What do I do to connect the C-Sinus with the Dsm 2.0?
You can help me?
Many thanks
Joseluisvalde |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thanks a lot Moritz
I will wait your news for that.
Regards
joseluisvalde
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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 Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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I continued my experiments with the DSM board, now installed in a 39560 Crocodile with a Lokpilot V4 M4.
It works perfectly, minimum speed is 3 minutes per meter, but only with MS2, Intellibox and Lokprogrammer. Using an ECOS it works erratically, can run perfectly or go jumping at high speed. Same behaviour also seen with the Taurus I used before. I wonder why. Railcom interference ?
regards
Mario
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: mario54i Using an ECOS it works erratically, can run perfectly or go jumping at high speed. Same behaviour also seen with the Taurus I used before. I wonder why. Railcom interference ?
Hello Mario, yes, this could be possible. It may help to use a power Pack or capacitor to buffer the decoder and the DsM 2.0. Another way to improve the performance is, to connect the power wires from the DsM 2.0 not to the track current but to U+ and GND of the decoder and to buffer the Decoder and DsM with a buffer capacitor on this current (U+ and GND). Moritz |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I received from Erich (rail4you) the flexible cable adapter for the DSM 2.0 decoder with C-Sinus engine. However I do not know in what order I must weld the 6 cables that come out of the C-Sinus motor, to the DSM2.0 adapter I attach photos and ask for help from Moritz or who can help me. Thank you   
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Jose, this C-Sinus is a special case. As You see, there are only 6 cables coming from the motor circuit board. There is a good explanation here on page 6ff of the Stummi BLDC controler description: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsJLT8JTzbCohfxz4RnXdUX-50vGFg You have to unsolder the resistors and solder the wires directly to the hall sensor side where the resistors have been before. I may create a description later on. Regards, Moritz |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thank you very much Moritz for your quick response.
Erich has informed me that I have to unsolder those resistances, but little more; and the main problem is that the documentation is in German.
The question is in what order should I solder the wires, etc.
Regards
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Dear Moritz,
At this time you are probably the one who can best help me with the C-Sinus engine theme.
I have seen by the information that you sent me, that I must remove the resistors, and how to solder other cables in their place so that in total there are 8 in the flexible connection.
The question is in what order should I solder the wires to the flexible cable adapter?
My confusion is that by numbering the wires from 1 to 6 on the motor plate in descending order, they correspond to the following decoder positions (always in descending order):
the 1 of motor corresponds to the 5 of decoder; the number 2 to the 4; 3 to 6; 4 to 3; 5 to 2 and 6 to 1.
Please, give your help.
Thanks a lot
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: joseluisvalde Dear Moritz,
At this time you are probably the one who can best help me with the C-Sinus engine theme.
I have seen by the information that you sent me, that I must remove the resistors, and how to solder other cables in their place so that in total there are 8 in the flexible connection.
The question is in what order should I solder the wires to the flexible cable adapter?
My confusion is that by numbering the wires from 1 to 6 on the motor plate in descending order, they correspond to the following decoder positions (always in descending order):
the 1 of motor corresponds to the 5 of decoder; the number 2 to the 4; 3 to 6; 4 to 3; 5 to 2 and 6 to 1.
Please, give your help.
Thanks a lot
Jose Luis Hello Jose Luis, I'm a bit busy at the time, but I will try to provide You the information until weekend. Regards, Moritz |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thanks you Moritz, you are very kind
Jose Luis
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Hallo, one of these days I will go down this path as well, I have a Taurus with the early Cine-motors and to achieve to stop in my braking section before a signal and activation point, she has to enter the siding at 250km/h to be able to stop ., the longest braking distance wasn't designed for my lauout's long sidings.
John |
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello, this is, how it should work:  If the circuit above doesn't work, You should try this version:  All information without guarantee! I don't have this kind of C-sinus motor and therefore, I have to analyse pictures and other documentation. Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thank you very much Moritz,
I'll try following that great circuit.
Regards
Jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Hello Moritz,
I have done the tests following the connection instructions that you kindly sent me, but the results are negative.
I explain: I have removed the 4 resistences from the motor plate and I have soldered the wires in the manner indicated in the first circuit.
The flexible flat cable connected to the decoder DsM2.0.
I used a Locksound V4.0 decoder connecting the red wire, with the red of DsM2.0 and this to the shoe socket; the black wire with black Dsm2.0 and the mass of the motor and wheels; the motor wires, orange and gray to the same color of the DsM2.0. When power is given to the CS3, the blue light of the DsM is turned on and then turned off. The current consumption in the CS3 is 48 / 50mA.
I start the throttle and the red light of the DsM turns on, without the locomotive moving. I can see that the motor is active and if I turn it with my finger, it picks up speed but it is not regular or no corresponds to the throttle. Consumption in CS3 increases to 250 mA.
Second test, with the second circuit, and the result is the same.
In the Loksound decoder I put the CV 51 to the value 1. But with the DsM 2.0, the Central CS3 does not recognize the address of the decoder (??)
As a comment I must say that when fixing the flexible cable, broke the locking tab and replaced it with a small piece of plastic. It has been fixed well, just as in the other side that has the locking tab.
What else can I do now?
B.R.
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Jose,
could you send or post here a picture of the C-Sinus, where You soldered the wires?
Did You deactivate in the decoder the active load balancing (don't know the English word)?
Maybe, there is one hall or coil wire, which doesn't has good connection because of the broken locking tab. |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I attach photos. My English is not very good and I do not understand what you mean by this: "Did You deactivate in the decoder the active load balancing?"   9837327img20180214104919.jpg Regards Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I attach photos. My English is not very good and I do not understand what you mean by this: "Did You deactivate in the decoder the active load balancing?" [img]9837256img20180213222233.jpg  9837327img20180214104919.jpg
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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[img]http://www.subirimagenes.com/otros-img20180213222233-9837256.html[/img]
[img]http://www.subirimagenes.com/otros-img20180214104851-9837328.html[/img]
I do not remember how I placed the images last time, sorry
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I hope this time the images arrived. I apologize for the repetitions [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] 
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Originally Posted by: joseluisvalde I attach photos.
My English is not very good and I do not understand what you mean by this: "Did You deactivate in the decoder the active load balancing?"g Hello, i think he refers to load compensation. |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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I meant the CV49 Load Regulation, CV49 should be an even (0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ...) value.
The broken locking tab could be a problem, too. Have You checked on the C-sine circuit board, that there is no short circuit from soldering?
You could also try to solder the wires directly to the flex cable, whie the locking tab doesn't work properly anymore. |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thanks for your help
It seems to me that the problem is not load regulation (CV 49), because without that control the locomotive would go like skipping, irregular running, especially at low speed; but in this case the consumption (Amp) goes up a lot and the speed does not respond to the throttle.
With regard to contacts, there may be a problem of that kind; I have controlled it well (or so I think); The locking tab is nothing more than holding the flat cable well, and with a plastic / paper thickness, wedge-shaped, I see that it is very tight.
I will try to do more controls and tests, but always following the pattern of the circuits that Moritz sent me.
Can not it be that the connections may be different?
Regards
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I sent the comment to Erich (rail4you) and I just received this response:
"Sehr geehrter Herr Valderrama
Wunschgemäss habe ich Ihnen heute zur DHL/Deutsch-Post- gebracht mit der Sendungsnummer RR383608130DE
- 1 Adapter komplett
- 2 Flachband-Kupplungen bei denen Sie die schwarzen Verschlüsse selber entnehmen können."
I have to admit that sometimes the aids, besides being very positive, overwhelm us and leave us without knowing what to say.
This I say by rail4you and by the people of Marklin-Users.
B.R.
Jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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I received a new flexible cable and adapter for the MsD 2.0,
BUT
I can not make the C-sinus motor work.
I have made the connections as indicated in the received files (like the two versions). The MsD2.0 connected to the decoder (Loksound v4) following instructions.
The CV 51 set to the value 1. Deactivated the load control.
I put the locomotive 39160 Marklin in programming mode. The decoder has address 3. The CS3 does not recognize the address; the blue light of MsD2.0 flashes while reading. The standby consumption is 45 mA but if the throttle is increased it rises to 250 mA and no longer decreases until the current is removed from the track. The engine does not turn.
It may be that I am doing something wrong, but I have verified and repeated the operations several times.
Maybe with this locomotive there should be another type of connection?
Help! please
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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[img]http://  [/img]  [img]  [/img] Sorry for the photos; I have checked the welds with magnifying glass; I have controlled the position of the cables several times; MsD2.0 connections follow their instructions. Thanks Jose Luis
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Have you tried to put it back to its original C-sine connections and see if the motor works ? |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Yes, before starting the first tests.
Erich, from rail4you, has offered me to verify it in his workshop and put it there.
Today I will send it.
Thanks you all for your interest. I will keep you informed.
Regards
Jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Jose Luis,
there seem to be several different versions, how the hall sensors and coils are connected, therefore You (or Erich now) has to change the the hall sensors wires as long until the motor works fine.
This is what Jörg (Loksound4) in Stummiforum wrote.
Moritz |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thank you, Moritz, for your attention.
I have sent everything to Erich (rail4you).
Regards
jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Does anyone know if Erich (Rail4you) is still active?
Last February, following the instructions of Erich I sent him the locomotive Marklin 39160 with C-Sinus engine, not being able to do the transformation with the decoder MsD2.0.
I have sent him some mails requesting information about the result he has been able to obtain and I have no response from Erich.
The last time I wrote to him, was on June 14, asking him to please send me an answer in any way, but I still have no news of Erich.
Thanks for answers
Jose Luis
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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I have no contact since several weeks, but I had no reason to contact him. I see sometimes, that he's logged in in Skype.
I may send him an Mail. |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thank you, Moritz, you are always so willing. These are two of the emails I have sent him: "may 27th Dear Erich I'm surprised not to hear from you. Almost three months ago I felt you the locomotive Marklin 39160 with C-sinus engine, following your instructions. I would appreciate your comments. " "June 14th Dear Erich I must insist and ask you, please give me an answer to my emails " jose luis f. of valderrama jlfdvalderrama@telefonica.net
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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hmm...I bought some other engines with Csinus1 hoping to upgrade them with dsm board...
BTW, the dsm motor kit for upgrading Hag engines was foreseen for last fall, any news ?
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 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,436 Location: Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 I see sometimes, that he's logged in in Skype. He was also logged into the Swiss HAG forum very recently.
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thanks for your answers.
That is, it seems that Erich is still in this world.
Surely he will have some reason not to respond to any of my mails.
From what Moritz told me, he was going to contact Erich.
Regards, Jose Luis
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 Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,490 Location: Hrvatska
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I did play a bit with my "rookie", which is nice to climb (and works quite well with the factory settings)
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1 user liked this useful post by 1borna
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Is it converted with DsM 2.0, too? It is the E 94 DRG, isn't it?
I contacted Mr. Iten last week, the business goes on, so don't worry. Jose Luis, did You get an answer in meantime?
Regards,
Moritz |
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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Thanks you Moritz for your gestion.
No, I do not received any comment no answer
Retardos
José luis
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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For the members involved in this topic and especially the kind Moritz, if you read this post.
It may seem very strange, but since last March that I sent the locomotive to Erich (rail4you), I still have no news from him. My repeated mails asking for news, do not get any answer (???)
Regards
Jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: joseluisvalde For the members involved in this topic and especially the kind Moritz, if you read this post.
It may seem very strange, but since last March that I sent the locomotive to Erich (rail4you), I still have no news from him. My repeated mails asking for news, do not get any answer (???)
Regards
Jose Luis Hi Jose Luis, that's really unusual. I will contact him and ask him about this. Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 02/04/2014(UTC) Posts: 94 Location: san sebastian
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A lot of thanks Moritz
Regards
Jose Luis
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1 user liked this useful post by joseluisvalde
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: joseluisvalde A lot of thanks Moritz
Regards
Jose Luis Hello Jose Luis, You will receive an answer shortly. I had a friendly phonecall with Mr. Iten. Everything will go well. Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Märklin E 94 004 slow motion with the C-sine motor, a rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver board
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