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Operation of digital loco in analog mode
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Offline Yossi  
#1 Posted : 12 January 2018 23:28:50(UTC)
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Yossi

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Joined: 09/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Rehovot
Is it possible to operate a digital loco in analog mode?
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Offline jcrtrains  
#2 Posted : 12 January 2018 23:56:39(UTC)
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jcrtrains

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Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Yes - they will work. You lose the digital functions. And very often, the smoothness of operation and throttle is very inconsistent.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 13 January 2018 08:38:23(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
And very often, the smoothness of operation and throttle is very inconsistent.
???
With not so old decoders (beginning with the fx generation I think) the load regulation will work, the acceleration delay will work, some functions will be active (and this can be configured with programmable decoders). Braking delay has some restrictions: It will work when slowing down gently, but cannot work when the throttle goes down to 0.

Sound locos typically can be configured to have sound in analogue operation.
Some of my locos are configured to have lights and sound on at a transformer setting of 50 or less and will start moving at higher settings. When turning from 250 down to 50 they will stop gently with lights and sounds on and even play the sound of squealing brakes.

As always the warning: only use current transformers made for 120 V or 230 V and avoid transformers made for 110 V, 220 V or 240 V.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Kapalua  
#4 Posted : 13 January 2018 10:41:03(UTC)
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Kapalua

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Joined: 22/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I run Digital Locomotives on Analog and performance varies on type of decoder installed.

Delta Decoders for example, lights won't work when run on Analog and some of the older decoders, you need to set dip switches to off position for it to run on Analog.

The newer FX decoders lights will work being constant on.

I recently converted two old HAG Locomotives to Digital using ESU decoders and they run very smooth on both Digital and Analog, no need to worry about dip switches here.

I am still new to Digital so don't have that much in depth knowledge on this whole Marklin Digital World but I'm getting there.
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 13 January 2018 11:13:53(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
Delta Decoders for example, lights won't work when run on Analog and some of the older decoders, you need to set dip switches to off position for it to run on Analog.
With Delta decoders lights will be on. With pre-fx decoders (6080 and 6090) lights will be off for some models, but on for others.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Kapalua  
#6 Posted : 13 January 2018 11:16:27(UTC)
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Kapalua

Denmark   
Joined: 22/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
Delta Decoders for example, lights won't work when run on Analog and some of the older decoders, you need to set dip switches to off position for it to run on Analog.
With Delta decoders lights will be on. With pre-fx decoders (6080 and 6090) lights will be off for some models, but on for others.



What am I doing wrong? None of my Delta Decoders allows me to run with lights on with Analog.
I have both the 4 and 8 dip switch delta decoders.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 13 January 2018 11:40:41(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
What am I doing wrong? None of my Delta Decoders allows me to run with lights on with Analog.
A typical Delta loco has the lights connected to the motor outputs of the decoder. When the motor gets power, the lights should also be on.
A feature of most Delta locos: The intensity of lights varies with the speed also in digital operation.

Only few Delta decoders have 8 DIP switches, so those with 8 switches could be pre-fx digital decoders (6080 without pots, 6090 with pots) where the lights are off in analogue operation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 13 January 2018 16:42:21(UTC)
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mike c

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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
I have never seen a Delta decoder with 8 DIP switches. They have 4 switches. The digital decoders have 8 switches. It is possible that a few later Delta models may have actually been delivered with (in stock) 6080 decoders while digital decoders were already receiving the more modern 6090 decoder.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 13 January 2018 18:35:50(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I have never seen a Delta decoder with 8 DIP switches. They have 4 switches. The digital decoders have 8 switches. It is possible that a few later Delta models may have actually been delivered with (in stock) 6080 decoders while digital decoders were already receiving the more modern 6090 decoder.
For your information: Delta decoders were in the Märklin catalogue until the 2011/2012 issue. And they had 8 DIP switches and were also used for some Delta locos of that time (like the 30951 - you can see the 8 DIP switches in the manual).
The decoder in the 34831 from 1997 also had 8 DIP switches.

Delta decoders lived much longer than the 6080 decoder.

If they used 6080 decoders in locos advertised as Delta then the manuals should reflect this and give instructions for 8 DIP switches. Are there any examples for that?

For a picture of a Delta decoder with 8 DIP switches, click here:
https://www.maerklin.de/...pdb_pi1%5Bsearchres%5D=1
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jcrtrains  
#10 Posted : 14 January 2018 03:55:05(UTC)
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jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
And very often, the smoothness of operation and throttle is very inconsistent.
???
With not so old decoders (beginning with the fx generation I think) the load regulation will work, the acceleration delay will work, some functions will be active (and this can be configured with programmable decoders). Braking delay has some restrictions: It will work when slowing down gently, but cannot work when the throttle goes down to 0.

Sound locos typically can be configured to have sound in analogue operation.
Some of my locos are configured to have lights and sound on at a transformer setting of 50 or less and will start moving at higher settings. When turning from 250 down to 50 they will stop gently with lights and sounds on and even play the sound of squealing brakes.

As always the warning: only use current transformers made for 120 V or 230 V and avoid transformers made for 110 V, 220 V or 240 V.


I thought about this some more and went and did some tests. I run 2 controller analogue with 1 controller using a Relco. The 2nd controller does not have a Relco and I use it for digital locos. After doing a bunch of tests, I realized I had not isolated the Relco completely. I have now removed the Relco completely and there is an improvement in throttle control.
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Offline baggio  
#11 Posted : 15 January 2018 05:43:48(UTC)
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baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
In 2 rail Roco, I have two digital locos, an Ice 2 and a diesel loco. They both work very well in analogue mode.

In fact, the Ice 2 decoder has now failed, as Mike pointed out when I took it to him, but it still works fine in analogue (or in digital with a new decoder - Mike had installed one).

The only difference, maybe, was that in digital the locos were FASTER, but they still are fast. The Roco Ice 2 analogue is substantially faster than the Marklin Ice 2 digital. I know since I had them race each other. BigGrin ThumpUp

In 3 rail, one Marklin FX loco did not work well at all in analogue mode but works just fine in digital. I understand from what others have said here in this forum that it is not all that unusual to have issues with digital locos if one tries to run them in analogue mode. Since now I only run Marklin locos in digital, I don't have that potential problem.


Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
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Offline cookee_nz  
#12 Posted : 15 January 2018 10:33:24(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,953
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
And very often, the smoothness of operation and throttle is very inconsistent.
???
With not so old decoders (beginning with the fx generation I think) the load regulation will work, the acceleration delay will work, some functions will be active (and this can be configured with programmable decoders). Braking delay has some restrictions: It will work when slowing down gently, but cannot work when the throttle goes down to 0.

Sound locos typically can be configured to have sound in analogue operation.
Some of my locos are configured to have lights and sound on at a transformer setting of 50 or less and will start moving at higher settings. When turning from 250 down to 50 they will stop gently with lights and sounds on and even play the sound of squealing brakes.

As always the warning: only use current transformers made for 120 V or 230 V and avoid transformers made for 110 V, 220 V or 240 V.


I thought about this some more and went and did some tests. I run 2 controller analogue with 1 controller using a Relco. The 2nd controller does not have a Relco and I use it for digital locos. After doing a bunch of tests, I realized I had not isolated the Relco completely. I have now removed the Relco completely and there is an improvement in throttle control.


What... Pray tell, is a "relco". ? ?

Herr Google tells me it's a lighting company or clothing.
Cookee
Wellington
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Offline cookee_nz  
#13 Posted : 15 January 2018 10:37:33(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,953
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Ok, right at the very bottom, seems it's some form of rail cleaning device.

I found this forum, seems it will not play nicely with any digital technology, hardly surprising.

http://www.modelrailwayf...uk/showthread.php?t=6212


Cookee
Wellington
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Offline jcrtrains  
#14 Posted : 15 January 2018 13:02:08(UTC)
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jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Ok, right at the very bottom, seems it's some form of rail cleaning device.

I found this forum, seems it will not play nicely with any digital technology, hardly surprising.

http://www.modelrailwayf...uk/showthread.php?t=6212




It is pretty old school. It doesn't actually 'clean'. It helps electrical conduct over dirty track and gaps. Gone now
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