When Marklin did upgrade old CS,there was at all planned and did start created an new CS2 under that time.

So customer did become fooled,when Marklin did sold old CS upgrade.

To created a new CS2 takes months and some years too...

Can i say that you are dumb and still dumb by not writing and talking about this mention from Marklin acting against you in the market...???

Goofy,a lucky man who did not had an old CS

If you always want to wait for the newest items, you can never buy anything.

It's always something new hiding behind the next corner.

Plus ESU is offering an upgrade to the CS, which in my estimation, will give it 99.9% of the CS2 capabilities.

Not for those people who did bought CS upgrade...

Goofy

Those who did that were scammed by somebody.

In some respects more: function mapping and editing (I'm still in shock they didn't put this in the CS2) and DCC.

The CS2 has more in the hardware respect, like a USB port, highrez colour screen and a few misterious ports: AUX, Sx and Speaker that may prove interesting in the future. Everything else is software, meaning they should be able to copy each other if they want.

What exactly is an scammed...?

Goofy

I see and understand now...!

What can i say about Marklin then in case against customer in the market...?

Shamed or and scammed at once...???

Goofy,not shamed or scammed

HA HA HA...

That was good...!

Lutz are now saying:"overspeculation as the hell"!

Goofy

You can excuse people for being sceptical, but this was the promise for the CS1, that there would be ongoing upgrades, peripherals, etc. They seem to have failed to materialise. Now this all may be ESU's fault, but at the end of the day it is Marklin's name on the CS1, and that is where people will direct their scepticism, especially at Marklin's ability to deliver with the CS2.

Way behind schedule, but...

CS1 owners already have the S88 and Booster connections as well as a sniffer port via the 'free' hardware/software update. They also now have 4amp and 8amp boosters from ESU.

Early next year, they will get (via the 3.0 upgrade) more internal booster power and DCC capablity as well as many new software features. They will also get the option to use the wireless ECoS control radio or the Dynamis system.

All of which are very appealing upgrades!

There were many mistakes in the process of developing /systems. Most of all it was the Central Station was released without the necessary functions to make it useful for a demanding customer. The backwards compatibility was planned but not implemented, the same applies for the booster and computer control, feedback etc.

The upgrade (costly as it may have been) corrected most of the things that should have been there at the very start. But a few years have passed and the Central Station 2 has a much better potential to be a success.

It is probably due to the fact that ESU and Märklin broke up the cooperation about /systems that the CS2 is already here. Maybe it's also time to let go of the backward compatibility issues and concentrate on making this one work as it is supposed to.

I wonder how many people who did bought old CS,has become very angry customer to see what Marklin has done against them in the market...?

It was only 2 years ago when old CS did arrived out to the market and see...

A new CS2 has arrived out...!

And besides,forget about 10 years rule...

Goofy

It could be looked at another way.

If Marklin had not updated the CS1, those people who had purchased it would have been left with a somewhat incomplete controller.

I think that would have been a much worse senario.[:o)]

Cheers..

Mike.

In the 149€ is also included a 90W power supply, to sweeten the deal. But ESU didn't put their brand name on the CS, Märklin did. So in fact Märklin is the guilty part towards the market - for anyone who wants to complain.

But if the ESU upgrade keeps all its' promises, they will have a very attractive offer, since you get DCC and more power from the CS.

ESU has taken over the support and development of the CS, which means it will be merged with EcOS at the next upgrade.

Interesting discussion. In a joint venture like Märklin and ESU, one part eventually ends up being "the bad guy" in some peoples' minds. The truth is either hidden from everybody else than the directly involved, or lies burried "somewhere in the middle".
Also, early adopters must be prepared for some - unpleasant - surprises. That's the idea of an ESP, to have the brave guys find the errors in order for the vendor to correct them to the benefit of all of us. The vendor, on his part, on the other hand takes upon himself a substantial risk of having a close-to-ready-product exposed "out-in-the-open" as being not-so-close to perfect, as hoped.
So, I really can't find any problems with that.
Personally, so far, I have difficulty finding arguments for upgrading from my CS1 to the new CS2. But time might show otherwise in the future.
What really bother me most, is what has happened in the slip-stream of the marketing-hype for this new device:
First, we got Märklin Delta. Introduction of the digital era.
Then, we got Märklin Digital, a great leap forward, compared to the Delta generation.
At last, we got the ultimate: Märklin Systems, which, according to Märklin, was the ultimate response to the market's ever increasing demands for new features, functions, ease-of-use, etc. A future-proof investment, if you'd believe the marketing bells-and-whistles. The word "Systems" indicated, that it included both Digital and everything else - really a wall-to-wall solution.
But during the launch of CS2, we suddenly noticed, that "Systems" was replaced by "Digital", indicating to all of us, that the Systems-era has ended (another dead-end?) and the new way to go is Digital. Most of all, I understand this change of branding as part of a - probably much needed - way of promoting and differentiating CS2 at the expense of the CS1: "CS1 is dead, long live the new CS2".
In my mind, one of the (many) advantages of Märklin has always been backwards compatibility - you never felt that an investment in Märklin equipment was wasted (although you could disagree with the pricing...). Are we really there now ? Where Märklin needs to market the CS2 so aggressively, that they have to indicate to us, that the CS1-era is over for good ?
Well, time will show - but so far, I look forward to the ESU V3-upgrade in the spring. At a price, yes. But why haven't Märklin introduced an upgrade-price (carry-in replacement) from CS1 to CS2 ? And is Märklin fighting so hard to keep us away from the open DCC system, and having us stick to the closed and proprietary Motorola-protocol, that you have to buy the green-button version of the CS2 to have DCC-support ?
I am a longtime (+40 years) deeply devoted Märklin-fan. But this time, I do not agree with Märklin and I'm far from impressed. I might be proven terribly wrong in the future - I kind of hope so...

Yes, welcome to the forum, kresten.

Some very interesting points you make in your post, you've pretty much read my mind as to where I stand on the CS2.

And along came DCC-support "by accident" - like an error-correctional SW-upgrade ???
Can anyone explain (the lack of) Märklin's marketing- and communications strategy ?
When launching the CS2, one of the major issues were lack of native DCC-support. Making lots of fans - including me - more or less decide to go by the ESU CS1-upgrade.
DCC-support must have been in the development pipeline for quite a while at Märklin. SW-development like that is not done overnight or "by mistake".
Why' didn't Märklin announce DCC-support already at the time of launch of the CS2 ? Why did we have to speculate, discuss, pose lots of questions ? Why didn't Märklin remove that confusion from the market simply by announcing that DCC-support wre being developed and would be integrated in the CS2 ?
I simply do not understand Märklin's strategy here. I'm confused - also about the future. Do anyone have an opinion on where to go ? With CS2 or with the ESU SW-upgrade, that probably(?) will be more and more integrated into the more open Ecos-world ???

To make live for Esu a lot more difficult.

A lot more people will now buy the CS2 and not the older Ecos.
So Esu will have to come with a new Ecos with colour screen.

But I will stick to my old CS and will not buy the Esu upgrade.
I don't need DCC.

Quote:
The disadvantage (for M) of including it is that it opens a new world of decoders for upgredas of existing locos as well as simplifies using other brands of locos on Märklin layouts.

<hr noshade size="1]
I agree - but I still think Märklin should have thought about the old saying: "If you do not take - good - care of your customers, somebody else will".

Also meaning: Do not fight "the open world", it's gonna happen anyway.

Besides - letting the news spread by "word of mouth" is a risky strategy. It leaves even loyal fans like myself in doubt of the real strategy: Do I dare invest in CS2, or would I be safer sticking to the CS1 and the ESU upgrade ? Esu, at least, announces their future intentions - while Märklin does not.

Also - I was told by my local dealer - and attractive CS1-&gt;CS2 upgrade offer is now available - implemented by the dealers. No announcement from Märklin...

For me - loyal Märklin-fan - I would really prefer to stick with Märklin. Have been happy about them for several years. That's why I'm asking for a strategy-statement, that would justify my inner feelings.

Goofy: Greed ? In this case I would say "on the contrary" - it's like throwing your clients into somebody else's arms...

It depends,that Lenz and ZIMO has Railcom.
But ZIMO has MM protocol too in digitalsystem and theirs latest decoder are supporting SDS motor for MM.

Goofy

So what protocol *is* mainstream? I mean: that's the protocol with the widest support, isn't it?

(Nevermind; found the RailCom thread and don't want to spoil this thread as well. Thanks! )

I did, hence the comment in paranthesis above..