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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 27 August 2017 06:56:58(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
UserPostedImage

Here is the box that I received from Marklin Service on Friday. On top of the large box are the 2 Marklin items that were inside the large box. Each item was placed inside another box, i.e. one box per item. The amount of bubble pads used to fill all 3 boxes was amazing. The expense in doing this is absurd - obviously the Service department doesn't care how much the cost is for packaging.

I'm annoyed on several fronts.

1. the obvious waste of time and packaging, which in turn increases Marklin costs and then pass these costs onto the consumer.

2. the 2 items I returned under warranty had faulty decoders. These railcars were run for only a few hours. I've bought 5 of these railcars - I have returned 3 so far with faulty decoders (and only 2 have come back) and the other 2 have faulty video screens, which I'll return when the third one is sent back. That's 5 out of 5 railcars that need to be repaired inside the warranty period. And this leads to my 3rd annoyance.

3. Cost cutting and buying inferior components to save money and then having the "cheap" components fail, causing the Service department to be in updated with products to be repaired, is the worst business decision a company can make. In plain English (and can someone translate this to German), is STUPID.

I hope someone from Marklin management reads this as I want them to investigate their whole operation. My comments are meant to be constructive criticism and NOT to insult. I'm saying this as I want Marklin to continue their production - not to produce rubbish, but to produce the products that Marklin have the reputation for quality.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 27 August 2017 07:32:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
1. the obvious waste of time and packaging, which in turn increases Marklin costs and then pass these costs onto the consumer.
Several items from dealers arrived damaged because the packaging was poor. Better to have too much fillings than too little.

Märklin assume all customers are imbeciles. If you convince them that you know what you are doing, they will allow you to return just the defective decoders instead of the whole train.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline NS1200  
#3 Posted : 27 August 2017 08:06:43(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Frustration understood but proper packaging prevents damage in international transport.
Small cartons are thrown into crates at transportationhubs,people there have no time to check whether cartons hold fragile Marklin materials.
Small cartons also are prone to get squeezed inbetween heavier stuff in trucks,planes,and ships.
The carton could be a standard size for international transport to save time in the Marklin despatching department,keeping a full assortment of various cartons could be counterproductive.
Many cartons have standard sizes so that an X number of cartons fit on a shippingpallet or airlinepallet so as not to waste costly space for which one needs to pay.
I usually buy my Marklin stuff from German sellers,just a couple of hundred kilometers away from Rotterdam,items sofar have always been packed very carefully with inside dunnage in the boxes.
I have been in (container) shipping all my life,even socalled professional companies think that a container will prevent any sort of damage to poorly packed cargo,nope it does not when taking into account the forces of nature when a vessel is on the oceans,each pallet needs to be wrapped and/or secured.
I have seen drums being punched by sharp objects inside the container,cartons collapsed because heavier stuff put on top of them,complete pallets destroyed because of heavy weather damage.
Also i have seen opentop containers with sheets of windowglass for Australian buildingsites with glass sheets being destroyed even before containers were lifted on board in Rotterdam,just because shippers did not have a clue.

Marklin being a big company i am sure they make deals with courierservices and freightforwarders so as to obtain volumediscounts on their annual transportationneeds.
You as a private person would pay say DHL 100 dollars for a box whereas Marklin would only pay 50 dollars or less.

We live in a world of global production with components being sourced from all over the globe,an average car holds dozens of components which were not produced in your homecountry.
All these components could fail sooner or later.
We once bought a Miele washingmachine because Miele is supposed to be the famous German quality ("Miele,there is no better one").
The electromotor failed,it was made in Italy,what else is there to say.
Last week we bought a Miele bagless vacuumcleaner,very powerful cyclone type,i still believe in German craftmanship,i just hope it was not made in China.............
Last night i threw away an electric table barbeque bearing the brandname Princess,cheap stuff from China worth Euro 25.- you buy in the average shop here,well it was worth zilch because it refused to roast our sate meat,so stay away from Chinese rubbish!

If the size of the box you received is 60 x 40 x 40 cm it is a socalled Europalletbox for which 4 boxes can be stowed in one tier on an Europallet size 120 x 80 cm.
The quality of these boxes is such that at least 4 tiers can be put on top of each other.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 27 August 2017 16:46:00(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
I would much rather pay for a box within a box and lots of bubble wrap than a small box barely fitting the items. You can just about be assured that nothing inside will be damaged. There is another thread on this forum regarding the horrible packaging received from Europe and the predictable results. I just can't find it at the moment, but if you read that thread you will be happy that your items came packaged as they were.

Peter
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Offline grnwtrs  
#5 Posted : 27 August 2017 20:31:43(UTC)
grnwtrs

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: El Sobrante, California
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I would much rather pay for a box within a box and lots of bubble wrap than a small box barely fitting the items. You can just about be assured that nothing inside will be damaged. There is another thread on this forum regarding the horrible packaging received from Europe and the predictable results. I just can't find it at the moment, but if you read that thread you will be happy that your items came packaged as they were.

Peter


Agreed, 1000 %, saves the resources of this planet, regards, the washing machine, by MIELE, CAN'T SAY , but there is only one dishwasher in my house,(besides me) and that's' Miele.BigGrin
Been there 20+ years without a murmur , once it retires, another will take its place of honor.Laugh

Regards. gene
Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 28 August 2017 00:02:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Greg,
The other replies in regards to packaging make a lot of sense .
Of course your frustration with the quality and the non-performance of the articles is rightfully uppermost.
So your recourse has been to return them to Germany at your cost, which is one of the downsides to living down-under.

The only upside is I assume, that freight costs to return to you are paid by Marklin.
As you know, I am in the mail order business, and it can be quicker to fill a large standard-size box with voluminous material to ensure integrity, than to fiddle with other methods.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Jabez  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2017 00:06:50(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
I am baffled by complaints that fragile goods for international shipment are too well packed and arrive in good order.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2017 00:23:35(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 563
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
I have seen drums being punched by sharp objects inside the container,cartons collapsed because heavier stuff put on top of them,complete pallets destroyed because of heavy weather damage.


Do tell me about shipping damage, I am a Commodities Relocation Specialist (Truck Driver). Most damage is not caused by the carrier, but by the shipper.

UserPostedImage
Offline PJMärklin  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2017 12:49:49(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
I am baffled by complaints that fragile goods for international shipment are too well packed and arrive in good order.


Hello Jab,

I loudly agree !

Most of my shipments from Europa to feed my Märklin hobby in the last decade have been from Lippe (I will not mention the two decades before)

Each shipment has been "ridiculously" over-protected by lots of airspace or spacer grabble and a box within a box. A very large package by outside measurements containing a small but protected, protected yes very protected [here I avoid the ("shouting") capital letters so abhorred by internet forum etiquette] and every time arriving to the other side of the world undamaged.

Happy for them to do it every time by me !!!

Regards,

PJ
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 28 August 2017 15:57:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
anything posted from Germany via DHL doesn't make any difference how small or big the box is, DHL has got a fixed pricing for items from 1 kg I think up to 20kg. I get the same packaging from a German dealer, its called monopoly, some dealers are still using German post but this means the dealer has to post it at a post office as with DHL all is electronically registered and most of them aren't interested in seeking the cheapest postage.
I've ordered a small item (big enough to go into a letter) and was quoted Euro 35.00, I queered the postage but was told this is it. therefore I used another dealer and was charged Euro 6.00.

unless you've got enough weight and the items are worth the postage I will not deal with this dealer anymore and I think the same will soon sink into many Australian buyers.

Märklin service, unfortunately you can't get out of it so you're stuck with a German pricing arrangement because it easier for dealers just to register your parcel electronically with DHL and everything else is done by that company.

I don't buy anything from America its pretty much the same there but I've heard, (could be this forum) there is a company who ships items to Australia a t a much cheaper rate.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 30 August 2017 03:29:41(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post

Most of my shipments from Europa to feed my Märklin hobby in the last decade have been from Lippe (I will not mention the two decades before)

I had a similar experience. My ESU V200 from Lippe was packed beautifully and arrived in perfect condition. Unfortunately the motor failed after just a few hours of use and the cost for me to ship it back to Germany from the US (in the original packaging) was over 50% of the cost of the loco. I got help from a friend and we fixed it ourselves because it was not worth it to warranty it considering that shipping cost.

I can't afford to buy from Lippe anymore because of that. By the time my V200 would have been fixed "for free" the price would have been almost double what I originally paid for it. They can obviously get a much better deal on international shipping than I can. I only buy within the US now even though that limits what I can get and how cheaply I can buy it. International shipping costs have increased by an amazing amount in the last year.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline baggio  
#12 Posted : 30 August 2017 05:27:02(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
The electromotor failed,it was made in Italy,what else is there to say.


Now, now, Italian workers are no worse than German workers. I am not sure that Chinese workers are any worse than any other workers.

The real question is: what do these workers have to deal with? Quality parts or not-so-great parts?

Please forget the so-called "Marklin quality"; it no longer exists. Frankly, I think Marklin digital locos are inferior to Roco analogue locos in terms of reliability. Perhaps it is not a fair comparison since analogue locos are probably easier to make than digital ones.

My usual 2 cents' worth.
Offline NS1200  
#13 Posted : 30 August 2017 06:33:33(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
The electromotor failed,it was made in Italy,what else is there to say.


Now, now, Italian workers are no worse than German workers. I am not sure that Chinese workers are any worse than any other workers.

The real question is: what do these workers have to deal with? Quality parts or not-so-great parts?

Please forget the so-called "Marklin quality"; it no longer exists. Frankly, I think Marklin digital locos are inferior to Roco analogue locos in terms of reliability. Perhaps it is not a fair comparison since analogue locos are probably easier to make than digital ones.

My usual 2 cents' worth.


I was not saying that italian workers are poor workers.
I am saying that you buy a German washingmachine which has a motor coming from Italy.
Is that German quality?
Does that justify the slogan "Made in Germany"?,or worse "Miele,there is no better one"?
Is there a productionline at Zanussi for Miele,with a guy at the end of the line putting the Miele stickers on?

I am sure that most Italian products offer value for money,be it i will never buy Alfa Romeo cars,i have seen the Alfasud in my younger years,call me stupid if you wish.
Story goes that the "new" Fiat 500 is a very good car,it is a co-production with Ford who built the Ford KA II on the same platform,our Ford KA from 2010 has a Fiat 500 engine under the hood and it is doing fine,no rust on the bodywork sofar.
The Fiat 500 is being build in Poland,so was the Ford KA II.

We are living in a world of dramatic economic changes,with factories buying from other factories at the lowest price possible,quality needs to suffer because of that.
Companies buy cheap stuff and the marketing boys and girls cover it with a luxury sauce of quality.
Ikea,a very wealthy family owned company,is buying lots and lots from East European countries,where labour is cheap,such furniture is then moved by East European truckdrivers to The Netherlands,much to the dismay of Dutch truckingcompanies.
Once in the catalogue,it is called Scandinavian Design............

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline PJMärklin  
#14 Posted : 30 August 2017 09:41:57(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post


The Fiat ...



On one occasion when we were in Italy they told us that "FIAT" stands for "Fix It Again, Tony" Wink

However this little Fiat 500 looks fine on my layout and carries memories of these cars in my youth!BigGrin


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


Regards,


PJ
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Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 30 August 2017 14:15:51(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
On one occasion when we were in Italy they told us that "FIAT" stands for "Fix It Again, Tony"


Some 40 years ago, a friend of mine in Toronto once told me that Ford stood for "Fix Or Repair Daily".

I found that to be a true statement when a couple of years later I bought a 1972 Mercury Marquis. Cursing

However, a Datsun B210 came to the rescue of my wallet. BigGrin ThumpUp

Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 30 August 2017 18:29:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
On one occasion when we were in Italy they told us that "FIAT" stands for "Fix It Again, Tony"


Some 40 years ago, a friend of mine in Toronto once told me that Ford stood for "Fix Or Repair Daily".


That was also said in new Zealand, I suspect it went around the world ... BigGrin
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Offline NS1200  
#17 Posted : 30 August 2017 19:15:33(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
We are going just a bit off topic,i confess guilt in that respect!

Before Audi became the premiumbrand it is today,there was DKW/Auto Union.
Dutch nickname was Deutsche Kinder Wagen (German pram).
Actually nice cars for their time.

https://upload.wikimedia...stered_1965%29_right.jpg

In my armytime in 1976-1977 there was the DKW Munga,a two stroke jeep mainly used by the military police:

https://www.nmm.nl/media...002.jpg.1200x630_q85.jpg

Also used as secret weapon against enemy tanks:

https://c1.staticflickr....1932676_a40cf63b01_b.jpg

I confess: i drive a 2010 KIA Picanto with 80,000 km on the counter,nice small car to do the local shopping during the rainy season.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline Jabez  
#18 Posted : 30 August 2017 22:34:16(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
dickinsonj I only buy within the US now even though that limits what I can get and how cheaply I can buy it. International shipping costs have increased by an amazing amount in the last year.
[/quote wrote:

This reinforces the point that I have previously tried to make. Your location vs that of the supplier, i.e. shipping costs, means that what is your cheapest supplier is only good for your location. What is best for you may not be valid for all across this international board.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#19 Posted : 30 August 2017 22:40:37(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
This reinforces the point that I have previously tried to make.Your location vs that of the supplier, i.e. shipping costs, means that what is your cheapest supplier is only good for your location. What is best for you may not be valid for all across this international board.
Jabez


But in your case the dealer is located in Germany - so how is it that in Canada it's so much more economical?

Is Mike (the owner here) a philanthropist? LOL


CORRECTION:

I got this discussion mixed up with another, SORRY! Blushing : Northern Loco

The point is the same, however, regarding shipping costs. A loco in Germany that costs so much MORE than in Toronto. How is that possible? Confused
Offline Jabez  
#20 Posted : 31 August 2017 00:15:08(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

The point is the same, however, regarding shipping costs. A loco in Germany that costs so much MORE than in Toronto. How is that possible? Confused

The Maerklin MRP prices in Germany are not a bench mark to use. Look at the prices charged by Internet stores in Germany such as MSL or Lokshop as a base to compare prices charged elsewhere. Even then the Canadian price may have been a local promo effort.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#21 Posted : 31 August 2017 00:30:43(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post

The Maerklin MRP prices in Germany are not a bench mark to use. Look at the prices charged by Internet stores in Germany such as MSL or Lokshop as a base to compare prices charged elsewhere. Even then the Canadian price may have been a local promo effort.
Jabez


You mean to say that in Germany you can pay MORE than the Manufacturer's price as set out on Marklin's website? Sounds odd to me.

It is also odd that this loco does NOT exist on Maerklin's website.

Finally, the prices in Toronto are normally almost identical to the Marklin prices on the web.

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Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 31 August 2017 08:03:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
You mean to say that in Germany you can pay MORE than the Manufacturer's price as set out on Marklin's website?
I once found an eBay dealer. They asked 200 odd Euros for a hobby loco with an RRP of 130 Euros.
It was "Buy now" with "Make offer". I offered 60 Euros, they replied with an offer that was still 200 odd Euros.

Absolutely legal. Absolute stupid for long-term hobby items that are still available from Märklin.
Might work for strictly limited items that are quickly sold out at the company.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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